Members styxer06 Posted June 12, 2008 Members Share Posted June 12, 2008 Dynamic Mice - great band name yeah i kinda like it too! they do say my band sounds Cheeeeesy! Ba Da Bump "Thank You!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted June 12, 2008 The easiest solution is to buy a monaural chorus pedal and run it into a 112 combo amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 No one has addressed the real issue at hand here. Nobody, with the possible exception of Andy Summers, should use that much chorus. You're too permissive. Nobody should use any chorus. Period. Pat Metheny should be lynched. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AdamCh311 Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 No one has addressed the real issue at hand here. Nobody, with the possible exception of Andy Summers, should use that much chorus. Just kidding, it's your sound, I understand. In most cases, the sound guy only has about 10 minutes in between bands to do about 20 minutes worth of work, by himself. He will be trying to remember what goes where, patching like crazy, and may not have 2 minutes to explain the physics of sound to someone. Try this - make a stage plot and input list and hand it to the sound guy when you load in. That's the way the pros do it. And PS - we're the ones with the red buttons, we do hold the power.Dynamic Mice - great band name How long would it take to explain that he doesn't have enough channels or he isn't running stero. Also remember, without musicians playing on stage you don't have a job. To clear things up, I did try to talk to the guy before hand. I tried to make things easier by trying to ask if we should put our gear on stage before the show started, I tried to explain my guitar situation before hand, i tried to help the guy out 100 different ways when i saw he was doing things more difficultly than he needed to. He never listed. So, I asked one of the other people running the show if it would be ok if i went ahead and plugged into a channel and which one I should use. Then he tried to tell the sound guy about it, and still he didn't listen. He didn't give a flying flip about anyone playing because he felt they were "mediocre musicians" and didn't know what they were doing. He showed it to several people through out the night. I felt it was in my place to do this back to him, since he was doing this to people who were indirectly paying him for his service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevie j Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 If I was running it, I would not have run it in stereo unless forewarned in a rider with extra pay to rewire the system to stereo. So I'm just going to buy two of my own sm57s with short XLRs and little stands just as part of my rig. I'd like to add a DI box to it too, so soundman doesn't rip me off and just plug in one of my mics just for spite. You seem to have arrived with an attitude, never do something 'just for spite' cos it won't work. If you did bring 2 mics, I would use two channels run mono, if available. Otherwise you would get the suggested 1 mic between the speaker. As for the guy who tried embarrassing the sound guy and plugged in without asking, you would have to get your guitars and DI box surgically removed:cop: BTW if you had your 50watt amps and wanted them turned up playing to 100 people, I would have taken them out of the mix and let you use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 Never underestimate the ability of a monitor engineer to embarrass a guitarist beyond imagination. Without him knowing what happened. We can get even and then some effortlessly. Look at the stupid stories thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 13, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 It's a lot harder to build bridges than burn them, but it makes the crossing so much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 How long would it take to explain that he doesn't have enough channels or he isn't running stero. Also remember, without musicians playing on stage you don't have a job. Don't know. Depends on your level of comprehension, I suppose. How long would it take you to hand him a stage plot and input list?And if all the musicians in the world just disappeared one day, I would not be out of a job, it would just be a little bit more boring. I'm sure the non musical clients I have such as ESPN/Disney, Pepsi, United Technologies etc. etc. would keep my bottom line where it needed to be. On the other hand, if all the self-important, vindictful, ignorant, too-much-chorus-using guitarists disappeared one day, it would probably make my job that much more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 Going back to the first post where the OP says "I play with a Roland JC120, it's 2x12's and stereo chorus, but sound guys always just mic one speaker and get an attitude when I ask to mic both, usually tell me "sorry, I don't have any more lines/mics/ok, just a minute(never happens)." If it's a regularly occurring problem, perhaps it's time for a mono amp and a chorus pedal. Sometimes it's better to make a problem just go away rather than finding a way to continuously fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AdamCh311 Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 Don't know. Depends on your level of comprehension, I suppose. How long would it take you to hand him a stage plot and input list?And if all the musicians in the world just disappeared one day, I would not be out of a job, it would just be a little bit more boring. I'm sure the non musical clients I have such as ESPN/Disney, Pepsi, United Technologies etc. etc. would keep my bottom line where it needed to be. On the other hand, if all the self-important, vindictful, ignorant, too-much-chorus-using guitarists disappeared one day, it would probably make my job that much more enjoyable. Ah, so you have no duty to explain anything to the people who hire you? I'm usually a do whatever the sound guy ask kind of person. If I think something should be done differently, I'll say so. If he says no, I'll just not do it. Further more I believe in not using more PA than a job calls for. I could have given the guy a stage plot, had I known before hand that it was going to be a job where everything was miced. Finding out on the way to a venue, when you were told 100 times before that electric guitars, drums and bass where specifically forbidden to be run through the PA, things turn out a little differently. For starters I would have brought my blackheart and not my ampeg reverberocket. To the guy who said he'd have moved the mic from in front of my amp, I wish it would have been done. My entire point is that some communication is key. I tried on my part to communicate with the guy, he just didn't care what I was trying to say. If someone would have taken 30 seconds to explain the situation to this guy, maybe he wouldn't have taken things the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marcher5877 Posted June 13, 2008 Members Share Posted June 13, 2008 Never underestimate the ability of a monitor engineer to embarrass a guitarist beyond imagination. Without him knowing what happened. We can get even and then some effortlessly. Look at the stupid stories thread... I used to do sound. Once I was setting up and I asked one of the guys in the band while he was smoking a cigarette if he would smoke outside, because its non smoking club. He said that he would go outside after the cigarette. Biggest attitude. No problem, so the guys an ass, I'll still make him sound good. All the other guys, same thing. You would have thought these guys were just off their World Tour. Then I am doing soundcheck and the I trying to get levels and they just go through their song. "Bass drum only please..." Three hits then the bass player starts 'grooving' "No, Please, just the bass drum, I will check the bass in a sec...bass drum only...." Again, and again, the same thing, and they are laughing at me and imitating me, I am not sure they realize that the mics are on, and I not only can I hear, but I am controlling it. These guys had no idea what was going on. Maybe 1st time having a soundman???? I really have no idea. So whatever, I am a professionl and if they want to be a douche, I can handle it, whatever. So we're all set up, I grab a coffee and am waiting for the doors to open. Bass player grabs my coffee and starts drinking it. At this point I thought I was on a TV show or something, its really to much. I ask him what hes doing and he tells me "Put it on our tab..." They don't have a tab. Thats it, you f-with a mans coffee and its personal. Anyway, this is a decent sized club, everythings mic'd. First song starts. Middle of the first song and I slowly start turning up the delay on the kickdrum. Instant trainwreck. I turned the delay down once they starting completly losing but they got the idea. They continue playing wondering if its just the room or something so I do it once more. The drummer looks at me, face turns red. He knew. Don't {censored} with the soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deeprig9 Posted June 14, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 Andy Summers, actually, is the second most commonly guitarist I am referred to as sounding like. That was years before the JC120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 Bass player grabs my coffee and starts drinking it. I would have taken it outside at that point. You don't mess with a man's coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 Anyway, this is a decent sized club, everythings mic'd. First song starts. Middle of the first song and I slowly start turning up the delay on the kickdrum. Instant trainwreck.I turned the delay down once they starting completly losing but they got the idea. They continue playing wondering if its just the room or something so I do it once more. The drummer looks at me, face turns red. He knew.Don't {censored} with the soundman. That's the idea except apply that general idea to a harmonizer inserted into the guitar channel on the monitor rig w/ loud guitar through his wedge and sidefills. I still remember that poor dope's name too... Carl. I thought he was going to have to change his pants mid-set. He was a "very poor player" at times during the set, especially solos, until he BEGGED to appologize. After that he couldn't be nicer to the monitor guy (who happend to be a big, strong as an ox kind of guy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 I would have taken it outside at that point. You don't mess with a man's coffee. After he said put it on our tab, outside would be too far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 I paid to play this gig. It was basically a program for people who haven't played with a group in a while where they put a few bands together and have a gig one night. If I paid to play the gig, and those funds where used to hire a sound guy, I have every right to have the guy listen to me if I was the one who directly hired the sound guy or not. Lemme guess, you're the kind of guy that'll remind a cop that you're paying his salary too. Here's a hint, the only person in the venue that the soundguy has any responsibility to, is the one that he has a contract with. As long as those two people are happy with the result, your opinion is irrelevant. Just because you paid somebody to take part in a program, does not mean that you hired the production staff. You have no right, whatsoever, for him to listen to you. If you have a beef, you take it up with the people that you have a contract with. If they feel that you are right, the word will get passed along. Maybe he knew more than you give him credit for, maybe he didn't, but he was still in control of the suck knob. That means that you avoid pissing him off, at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neonfacelift Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 Lemme guess, you're the kind of guy that'll remind a cop that you're paying his salary too. Here's a hint, the only person in the venue that the soundguy has any responsibility to, is the one that he has a contract with. As long as those two people are happy with the result, your opinion is irrelevant. Just because you paid somebody to take part in a program, does not mean that you hired the production staff. You have no right, whatsoever, for him to listen to you. If you have a beef, you take it up with the people that you have a contract with. If they feel that you are right, the word will get passed along. Maybe he knew more than you give him credit for, maybe he didn't, but he was still in control of the suck knob. That means that you avoid pissing him off, at all costs. 100% agreed. The way I see it, I'm getting paid to make sure that the band sounds good in the ears of the audience. Period. It's just like any other job. You pay someone to do it because it's understood that they know better than you do. I'm not going to hire a plumber to come into my house and then stand there and tell him how to do his job. I'm paying him to call the shots. Now it's not to say that I won't listen and work with other people. I'm more than happy to if they approach me with the right attitude. Bottom line is, if you think that for some reason you're entitled to tell me how to run the show because you're paying me (directly or indirectly), then I'm more than happy to walk and let you pay someone that doesn't know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 I think you guys are being too harsh on AdamCh311. He already explained that he tried to work with the sound guy but he was too busy drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AdamCh311 Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 No, I don't do that to cops. Their lives are at risk to protect me everyday. I would never disrespect a police officer. As a matter of fact, one was on the stage with me playing and got the biggest chuckle of all. I don't disrespect most people. I got in touch with people and was told it was okay to plug my acoustic guitar into channel 12. These were the people who were in direct contact and hired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 After he said put it on our tab, outside would be too far away. You're right. I'm glad marcher5877 delivered the band their comeuppance, but he's way more tolerant than I would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 No, I don't do that to cops. Their lives are at risk to protect me everyday. I would never disrespect a police officer. As a matter of fact, one was on the stage with me playing and got the biggest chuckle of all. I don't disrespect most people. I got in touch with people and was told it was okay to plug my acoustic guitar into channel 12. These were the people who were in direct contact and hired him. Unless they owned channel 12, and all the rest of the system, they were also out of line to give you permission to plug anything in. Sounds like a complete clusterf*@k to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 14, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 No, I don't do that to cops. Their lives are at risk to protect me everyday. I would never disrespect a police officer. As a matter of fact, one was on the stage with me playing and got the biggest chuckle of all. I don't disrespect most people. I got in touch with people and was told it was okay to plug my acoustic guitar into channel 12. These were the people who were in direct contact and hired him. The people you asked would have probably told the sound guy it was just fine for him to replace your strings with 12's, but I'll bet you'd have a different opinion. There's absolutely no difference between what happened here and this hypothetical. You knew the venue hired someone for sound, and that they didn't own the system or know anything about how it's set up or operated. Asking them was as appropriate as asking a random patron. And if you felt (as you wrote) that you could have done a better job running sound than the man hired for the job, maybe you could have done more to help the gig run smoothly. Maybe the guy was new, maybe he was thrown into the gig without knowing the rig too well, or maybe he just sucked; the point is that the show always comes before your personal desires and feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 And if the folks that hired the sound company also told you that it would be ok to borrow their truck for a beer run, would that have been ok also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 And if the folks that hired the sound company also told you that it would be ok to borrow their truch for a beer run, would that have been ok also? Or to be more appropriate to the question at hand, told the soundman that it was okay to use AdamCh311's car to make the beer run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members styxer06 Posted June 14, 2008 Members Share Posted June 14, 2008 is this gig under the bridge or is it someone you will or have to deal with again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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