Members RoadRanger Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 I was doing an outdoor yesterday and "lost" three out of the four subs I was using. I had my pair of 1x15 SteelSound minisubs and the band's pair of 1x18 Madisons. The one that kept working was the Madison that was bought empty and loaded with a Technical Pro 2000 watt (yah right) 4" VC driver. Both the other Madison cab and my SteelSound cabs (same company as Madison but made in their "custom" shop) were running 500wrms Madison "Executioner" drivers. All were running as pairs bridged off of two RMX1450 clones (limiters on) so 700wrms each. Most of the show had the TP driver soaking up 1000wrms as that is what the 1450 puts into 8 ohms bridged after the other sub on that amp died and at that point I didn't see any point in dialing it down just to save a crappy TP driver . Anyways one of mine had previously blow a crossover coil when driven at this power level and had been patched at the gig and never fixed properly so I'm hoping it's just the wiring come loose. The Madison had the crossover coil die and I'm hoping the same happened to my other minisub. Anyways do other subs with internal crossover coils tend to burn up their coils before their drivers like these guys did? Otherwise they are nice, solid, lightweight plywood cabs with half decent 4" VC drivers in them that should cruise along at 700w I'd think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Real subs don't have crossover coils. Real subs go from input plate to speaker, that's it. If you find yourself in need of a crossover for your sub then consider (strongly) using an active crossover. For a good insexpensive 18 I really like the Audiopile 18's. I have used 6 or so in dual and single 18 cabs. I have needed to recone 2 used in the smaller EV S181 boxes but these were due to my over-exurting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I know it doesn't help you out much, but none of this post comes as a surprise. Isn't Steelsound pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as speaker cabinets go? With Madison not far behind (and just riding on Steelsound's marketing of Madison being an "upper end" speaker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I should have emphasized that I was using them with an active crossover. Seems like there are (were?) quite a few lower end subs made with internal crossover coils (250hz@6dB/oct?). They always tell you that you don't need to remove the coils if you use an active crossover but obviously I've had bad luck with letting them stay in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I know it doesn't help you out much, but none of this post comes as a surprise. Isn't Steelsound pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as speaker cabinets go? With Madison not far behind (and just riding on Steelsound's marketing of Madison being an "upper end" speaker). Actually at one time Madison was the high end plywood cabs with "Legion" being their sawdust cabs. They sold mostly parts under the SteelSound name (now ShredMuzic.com) but also did some limited run cabs under that name. The "minisubs" I have were an attempt by them to see how small and light you could make a 1x15 500wrms "sub" (3 cubic feet, 45 lbs ratfur and all ). Some say their "Executioner" drivers were (are?) rebadged Goldwood "Newport" series drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 They always tell you that you don't need to remove the coils if you use an active crossover but obviously I've had bad luck with letting them stay in . I guess you found out different. Why leave them in ... they just waste power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Why leave them in...Mostly my "If it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy. Either that or laziness . Guess that didn't work out so well, eh? I was mostly curious if other folks have had "unneeded" sub crossover coils burn up on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I guess you found out different. Why leave them in ... they just waste power.Definitely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't get it... Post after post about blowing up speakers. In 36 years of business, I have managed to blow up exactly zero speakers. What am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't get it... Post after post about blowing up speakers. In 36 years of business, I have managed to blow up exactly zero speakers. What am I doing wrong? I've never actually "blown up" a driver either - I'm hoping the two I haven't opened up yet are also wiring/coil failures and not blown drivers . I wanted to rewire them to speakons anyways . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ok, semantics. You "lost" speakers at a gig. I've never "lost" a speaker at a paying or otherwise gig. Seems to be, a "Professional" sound provider should be able to accomplish the contracted gig, without "losing" any speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Bill, I am with you. Playing out since 1961 and I can't remember EVER blowing out a speaker. I promise to try harder tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 You are always talking about driving the snot out of your speakers with bridged amps. Hope you learned a lesson. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 You are always talking about driving the snot out of your speakers with bridged amps. Hope you learned a lesson. :poke:Since when is running 700 watts into a 500wrms driver "driving the snot out of it" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ok, semantics. You "lost" speakers at a gig. I've never "lost" a speaker at a paying or otherwise gig.So, you've never had a bad cord, mic, amp, etc interrupt any part of your signal chain? I really don't see how having a poorly connected wire internal to the speaker or an undersized (by the mfg) crossover coil let go is any different. Heck, I've even had amps go DC on me and not cook a driver - I used to fuse everything I could . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 So, you've never had a bad cord, mic, amp, etc interrupt any part of your signal chain? I really don't see how having a poorly connected wire internal to the speaker or an undersized (by the mfg) crossover coil let go is any different. Heck, I've even had amps go DC on me and not cook a driver - I used to fuse everything I could . No, I've never had that happen during a gig. I have discovered bad cords during load in and replaced them. And no, I wouldn't own or use a product that had "undersized" anything. Perhaps it is a mindset, but when the mission is critical, there is no room for error. You won't get listed on the White House Communications list of perferred vendors if you "lose" speakers during a press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't get it... Post after post about blowing up speakers. In 36 years of business, I have managed to blow up exactly zero speakers. What am I doing wrong? I ahve lost 3 in ten years. - I hear you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschooler Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 I was doing an outdoor yesterday and "lost" three out of the four subs I was using. I had my pair of 1x15 SteelSound minisubs and the band's pair of 1x18 Madisons. The one that kept working was the Madison that was bought empty and loaded with a Technical Pro 2000 watt (yah right) 4" VC driver. Both the other Madison cab and my SteelSound cabs (same company as Madison but made in their "custom" shop) were running 500wrms Madison "Executioner" drivers. All were running as pairs bridged off of two RMX1450 clones (limiters on) so 700wrms each. ] QUOTE Whta is a Rmx1450 clone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Since when is running 700 watts into a 500wrms driver "driving the snot out of it" ? Since it was 200 more. I strongly doubt the drivers are rated in any kind of reliable way. I mean, come on. A sub box with speaker for around $100... if it were that easy, the real deal would not be 6+ times that much money. Or did JBL, QSC, Meyer, Nexo, EV, etc... just not figure out how to do it on the cheap yet? Also, you have to take into account the characteristics of a bridged amp. At peaks, the output is far more than the RMS rating, making the RMS rating moot, since you most likely running your signal how as snot to get the volume needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 What is a RMX1450 clone?Behringer EP1500, Nady SPA-1400, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Behringer EP1500, Nady SPA-1400, etc. Really???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 No, I've never had that happen during a gig. I have discovered bad cords during load in and replaced them. And no, I wouldn't own or use a product that had "undersized" anything. Perhaps it is a mindset, but when the mission is critical, there is no room for error. You won't get listed on the White House Communications list of perferred vendors if you "lose" speakers during a press conference. Never even had to switch to a backup in 35 years? Wow, PM me some lottery numbers - you've gotta be one lucky $%^&*!@ . Not everyone here is doing MegaDollar gigs and nobody died just because a few subs went offline. I'd have rented some real subs for this gig but the band didn't want to spring for it so we did the best we could with what we had. I obviously don't have a rig big enough for an outside rock gig and actually last did one in the 80's. They still sounded just short of great and were asked to do it again next year and already picked up a couple (so far) other gigs out of it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Also, you have to take into account the characteristics of a bridged amp. At peaks, the output is far more than the RMS rating, making the RMS rating moot, since you most likely running your signal how as snot to get the volume needed.Yes, the peaks were 1000+ watts I'm sure - but why do you say that is a characteristic of a bridged amp? Same thing happens in stereo I'm sure. And while I might push 3db into the limiters if I need to I most definitely don't clip anything in the signal chain (not that the subs care a whole lot). In any case while I haven't got into them all I'm 90% sure none of the drivers failed and won't hesitate to "do it again" once they are wired properly. If I do find a burned up driver I'll just put in something better like one of them Technical Pro $100 ones or more likely one from our friends at Audiopile . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 Really????As in "Wow, I didn't know they made RMX1450 clones - where can I buy some?" or "Wow, I wouldn't anchor a sunken rowboat with one of those POS amps!" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 12, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 "The Madison drivers are supposedly made in Taiwan by Goldwood and go for about $150." They're also supposedly rated for how much power? You're trying to run a rig on the cheap. Nothing wrong with that. But eventually most of us figure out the difference between price and value, which are two completely different terms. What happened to you is exactly why I and several others recommend against the bottom-barrel gear that's sold based on price alone. It's not just Behringer...we only have that monthly {censored}storm because someone invariably drags it up. But American Audio, Galaxy, Nady, Kustom, Madison/Steelsound/Insertgothnamehere are all crap brands that sell iffy gear to people who don't generally know any better. You've been coming 'round here long enough to know your taking chances with this stuff, and should not be surprised at having a failure. You pays yer money, you rolls the dice.... What you should be specifically looking at is the speaker power rating. I have strong doubts that the specs you're seeing are anything but wildly optimistic. The watt rating in particular is probably a best-case scenario and only based on a frequency that's not used for subs...like 1kHz. Remember, that's a thermal rating, and subs need to consider excursion as well as heat. And I'm telling you this because even if it was only the LPF coil that burned, you really should not be driving a 15" sub with bargain speakers at 500w or more. Try 300w to be safe. It won't make much difference in output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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