What a let down

[gardo]

I’ve been interested in the current Epiphone Rivera for quite some time. I saw one on the rack during my last trip to GC and it looked good. It’s been on my mind so today I stopped to check it out. The first thing I noticed was that it was not even close to being tuned, no big deal I’m sure I could tune it. But I really just wanted to get a a feel for the neck.It felt pretty good, I  would prefer a little more thickness but still comfortable. Then I felt a crack near the nut. I showed it to the salesperson who noticed it was on both sides. He said the QC has really gone down hill and thanked me for showing it to him. He then offered to order me another one. No thanks 
I was trying to decide between the Rivera or another Tele. Looks like another Tele in my future 

daddymack warned me that these were not the same as the older ones. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by gardo

[Mikeo]

I love teles

[daddymack]

14 hours ago, gardo said:

I’ve been interested in the current Epiphone Rivera for quite some time. I saw one on the rack during my last trip to GC and it looked good. It’s been on my mind so today I stopped to check it out. The first thing I noticed was that it was not even close to being tuned, no big deal I’m sure I could tune it. But I really just wanted to get a a feel for the neck.It felt pretty good, I  would prefer a little more thickness but still comfortable. Then I felt a crack near the nut. I showed it to the salesperson who noticed it was on both sides. He said the QC has really gone down hill and thanked me for showing it to him. He then offered to order me another one. No thanks 
I was trying to decide between the Rivera or another Tele. Looks like another Tele in my future 

daddymack warned me that these were not the same as the older ones. 

why, yes, yes I did. If you can find a pre-2000, snap it up, as those were built by Peerless ['94-99]. Then they moved to Samick to save labor cost, but it was still a decent player grade instrument. When Samick was making them in Korea, I would not have hesitated, but when Epiphone moved Riviera production to China [or, for other models, Indonesia, and/or Vietnam]...things went south. Rapidly. Not just the Rivieras....sadly.

You might find a Samick or a Peerless-era Riviera on Reverb, but they will run used more than the new ones....I saw a Peerless-era one recently for $1300 on line [likely reverb] and that may be top $, but they are easily going for a grand a pop from that era. Still probably worth your time to have a look.

[badpenguin]

Each guitar is an individual. Most are ok, some great, some dogs. Don't let picking up a dog sway you from trying others. I went thru 5 SGs before discovering the "one".  My Peerless, 3 before finding the one that spoke to me. 

Again, deal with them on an individual basis.

 

And.... it's GC, you expect tuned? Poor foolish mortal.....

Edited November 17, 2021 by badpenguin

[daddymack]

2 hours ago, badpenguin said:

Each guitar is an individual. Most are ok, some great, some dogs. Don't let picking up a dog sway you from trying others. I went thru 5 SGs before discovering the "one".  My Peerless, 3 before finding the one that spoke to me. 

Again, deal with them on an individual basis.

 

And.... it's GC, you expect tuned? Poor foolish mortal.....

I used to carry a snark with me when I went to GC...knowing that even if 'relatively' tuned, they wouldn't be to pitch.

I do agree you need to try more than one, but I think, to gardo's point, why, if you want to sell the instrument, would you not inspect the damned thing before hanging it on the wall with a price tag on it?

Both the manufacturer and the retailer should be making certain the instrument they put out for demo is not jacked up.

I've seen worse at GC , and Sam A$$...once in a SA, I turned on a used amp to standby, to warm it up, and it smoked. Wasn't even on! I showed it to the sales guy and he shrugged his shoulders, went over and unplugged it, and left it there.  I know, it was used, but they should test them before they sell them, right?

I've seen brand new Epi LPs with cracked p-u rings, upside down 'poker chips', reversed T-O-Ms, reversed humbuckers [slugs out, screws in], non-flippable switches [always pops back to center], flipped truss rod covers, cracked nuts...the devil is always in the details...

it isn't just Epi, I've seen brand new Squiers with the neck 'cocked' in the pocket, so the strings were off line, missing pickguard screws, missing string ferrules.....

[gardo]

8 hours ago, Mikeo said:

I love teles

I’ve got a few teles already but I really need one more 

[gardo]

3 hours ago, daddymack said:

I used to carry a snark with me when I went to GC...knowing that even if 'relatively' tuned, they wouldn't be to pitch.

I do agree you need to try more than one, but I think, to gardo's point, why, if you want to sell the instrument, would you not inspect the damned thing before hanging it on the wall with a price tag on it?

Both the manufacturer and the retailer should be making certain the instrument they put out for demo is not jacked up.

I've seen worse at GC , and Sam A$$...once in a SA, I turned on a used amp to standby, to warm it up, and it smoked. Wasn't even on! I showed it to the sales guy and he shrugged his shoulders, went over and unplugged it, and left it there.  I know, it was used, but they should test them before they sell them, right?

I've seen brand new Epi LPs with cracked p-u rings, upside down 'poker chips', reversed T-O-Ms, reversed humbuckers [slugs out, screws in], non-flippable switches [always pops back to center], flipped truss rod covers, cracked nuts...the devil is always in the details...

it isn't just Epi, I've seen brand new Squiers with the neck 'cocked' in the pocket, so the strings were off line, missing pickguard screws, missing string ferrules.....

Apparently I’ve been living in a fantasy world.  I actually except quality on the shelf

[daddymack]

4 hours ago, gardo said:

Apparently I’ve been living in a fantasy world.  I actually except quality on the shelf

I used to...but even Gibson, Fender, Martin, etc. have turned out a pile of mediocre to crap guitars, as badpenguin said. When I bought my tele from GC, a few years ago, I tried the two that were 'wall hangers', but although they piqued my interest, they were somehow lacking [one the neck was just too odd feeling, the other the woodgrain looked weird]. I asked them how many they had and if I could try them. The salesperson hesitated and I walked out. I went back a few days later, because I knew the manager, and asked for him when I went in, explained the situation, and he was accommodating. I tried a half dozen 'identical' guitars, and only one 'spoke' to me. Paid cash on the spot. I've never seen that salesperson there since.

What is comes down to is the combination of parts and craftsmanship does not always add up to 100%...but sometimes it adds up to 200%, sometimes only 50%.

I used to tell my people you can't inspect quality into an item, it has to be there to begin with. This is a concept that still has not taken hold in much of the new Asian manufacturing community....and we have lost sight of here in the USA.

[gardo]

12 minutes ago, daddymack said:

I used to...but even Gibson, Fender, Martin, etc. have turned out a pile of mediocre to crap guitars, as badpenguin said. When I bought my tele from GC, a few years ago, I tried the two that were 'wall hangers', but although they piqued my interest, they were somehow lacking [one the neck was just too odd feeling, the other the woodgrain looked weird]. I asked them how many they had and if I could try them. The salesperson hesitated and I walked out. I went back a few days later, because I knew the manager, and asked for him when I went in, explained the situation, and he was accommodating. I tried a half dozen 'identical' guitars, and only one 'spoke' to me. Paid cash on the spot. I've never seen that salesperson there since.

What is comes down to is the combination of parts and craftsmanship does not always add up to 100%...but sometimes it adds up to 200%, sometimes only 50%.

I used to tell my people you can't inspect quality into an item, it has to be there to begin with. This is a concept that still has not taken hold in much of the new Asian manufacturing community....and we have lost sight of here in the USA.

One of my friends put it to me like this  

“They all make good ones and they all make bad ones, some just make more good ones than others “ He’s was referring to cars but it seems to apply to guitars as well

[Mikeo]

I haven't bought a new Tele in almost 40 years. I still have the same 2 i purchased back then.

I'm do for another Les Paul. Down the road.

[daddymack]

I resisted Telecasters for decades, then on a whim [I wanted to experiment with some mods...I still have a list of mods* to do to it 5 years later] and I saw a knock-off [a Hard Luck Kings Southern Belle] dirt cheap, [and the company is part owned by a friend of a friend/acquaintance], so I bit, expecting to use it as a beater/loaner for my jam hosting gig, which I did. And somehow, it grew on me, not the instrument, but the concept of the instrument. It challenges you, as a musician, to try to get the most out of a very neat but minimalist design. Not unlike a LP Jr.  I still prefer a 2V/2T/3pos control set, which is what my Fender Tele has...one mod I did on the 'Belle', the 'Bill Kirchen' is clearly visible [on the left].

 

 

* mostly cosmetic: new black bridge plate, new 'fancy' control plate, new bridge p-up [I have a Buzz Feiten just waiting around]

[gardo]

Okay, technically I don’t need another Telecaster, I just want one.

The surf green partscaster on the right is the best one of the bunch but the vintage cream Xaviere has a neck that just feels right . It’s just slightly thicker than the others. The Squier on the left is the one that got me hooked. The sea foam is one I built on the cheap from spare parts. The thinline is sounding good with a neck mini and a set of .011’s . But there’s not one true Fender in the bunch .

Edited November 19, 2021 by gardo

[daddymack]

^'so many fantastic colors...'😎

who made your thinline?

the aqua and the mint green...partscasters? Roasted neck on the aqua?

you have definitely relic-ed that Squier neck!

I want to build a 'cabronita style', but with 2 filtertrons...I have a pair of gold ones from a TV Jones upgrade I did for a guy back in 2018...they need a home, and they won't fit my jazz box because of the humbucker route.

[gardo]

1 hour ago, daddymack said:

^'so many fantastic colors...'😎

who made your thinline?

the aqua and the mint green...partscasters? Roasted neck on the aqua?

you have definitely relic-ed that Squier neck!

I want to build a 'cabronita style', but with 2 filtertrons...I have a pair of gold ones from a TV Jones upgrade I did for a guy back in 2018...they need a home, and they won't fit my jazz box because of the humbucker route.

The thinline is a Vintage Brand  made in Indonesia with Wilkinson components.

The neck on the Aqua is one that I saw in a technician’s shop. When I asked what it is he told me junk and gave it to me. It had been on two different guitars already so there were holes to plug. It is a cheap neck with some sort of amber finish. That whole guitar was put together just to see if I could do it. The body is a GFS clearance item . For years my only guitar was a big old jazz box . Then my wife gave me the Squier as a gift . Let’s just say that I found my sound. The neck on the Squier was too white looking so I started wiping it with Orange Glo furniture cleaner. It gave a slight tint to the wood but somehow all of the fingering marks became darker, a happy surprise 

That Carboita type build you mentioned would be good to have if you could find a body or rout one out . 
We all need to have a project to plan for 

[Mikeo]

10 hours ago, gardo said:

Okay, technically I don’t need another Telecaster, I just want one.

The surf green partscaster on the right is the best one of the bunch but the vintage cream Xaviere has a neck that just feels right . It’s just slightly thicker than the others. The Squier on the left is the one that got me hooked. The sea foam is one I built on the cheap from spare parts. The thinline is sounding good with a neck mini and a set of .011’s . But there’s not one true Fender in the bunch .

Technically speaking, a candy apple red one would be nice and you are missing that.

Maybe a tele w/ a P90.

 

Technically speaking that is.

[daddymack]

7 hours ago, gardo said:

The thinline is a Vintage Brand  made in Indonesia with Wilkinson components.

The neck on the Aqua is one that I saw in a technician’s shop. When I asked what it is he told me junk and gave it to me. It had been on two different guitars already so there were holes to plug. It is a cheap neck with some sort of amber finish. That whole guitar was put together just to see if I could do it. The body is a GFS clearance item . For years my only guitar was a big old jazz box . Then my wife gave me the Squier as a gift . Let’s just say that I found my sound. The neck on the Squier was too white looking so I started wiping it with Orange Glo furniture cleaner. It gave a slight tint to the wood but somehow all of the fingering marks became darker, a happy surprise 

That Carboita type build you mentioned would be good to have if you could find a body or rout one out . 
We all need to have a project to plan for 

Funny, I am thinking to get one of the GFS clearance bodies and a Mighty Mite neck for the 'Cabronita' build. I would do a 'plug and rout' since the body will be painted black anyway. My past experience with GFS necks [mostly bass...part of the sad tale of my failed guitar company; Chinese factory manager who wouldn't listen, months spent fixing brand new instruments they shipped to us...] has not been positive...the last one GFS sent me for a build I was doing clearly still said 'Squier' on it

I have so many 'bad' bass/guitar necks [some were only sent as finish or inlay samples from our factory] I'm either making a mobile or a giant wind chime out of them. That was when I actually still had customers for repairs and mods...covfefe killed off most of that business, but it has always been more a hobby/sideline going back to the 80's. Since our move in early 2020, I still don't have a 'workroom' [or a studio] anymore... I have barely enough space to do most of what I need, but no room for a spray booth. But with the demand gone, not a pressing need.

[daddymack]

1 hour ago, Mikeo said:

Technically speaking, a candy apple red one would be nice and you are missing that.

Maybe a tele w/ a P90.

 

Technically speaking that is.

you need a black one, too...😉

[Mikeo]

13 minutes ago, daddymack said:

you need a black one, too...😉

[gardo]

5 hours ago, Mikeo said:

Technically speaking, a candy apple red one would be nice and you are missing that.

Maybe a tele w/ a P90.

 

Technically speaking that is.

Candy Apple red would be my second choice behind Olympic white w/ rosewood 

Both are nice, a candy apple double bound would interest me  
Funny you would mention P90’s . I thought about replacing the boring humbuckers in the sea foam with GFS Mean 90’s which would drop right in.

oh yeah, I would want to restring it too.

 It’s currently high strung Nashville tuning 

Edited November 19, 2021 by gardo
Duh

[gardo]

4 hours ago, daddymack said:

you need a black one, too...😉

I have a black Strat, that’s enough for me

[Mikeo]

I had a Danelectro RI, back in the 90's. I could get into it.

[daddymack]

2 hours ago, gardo said:

I have a black Strat, that’s enough for me

so do I, but there is no such thing as too many black guitars...😉

 

[gardo]

25 minutes ago, daddymack said:

so do I, but there is no such thing as too many black guitars...😉

 

Okay, let’s put it this way. First choice would be Olympic White then  Candy Apple and then black 

This reminds is that scene from The Jerk when Steve Martin was leaving and said he didn’t need anything. Except…..

[Mikeo]

59 minutes ago, gardo said:

Okay, let’s put it this way. First choice would be Olympic White then  Candy Apple and then black 

This reminds is that scene from The Jerk when Steve Martin was leaving and said he didn’t need anything. Except…..

That is quite a few black guitars

[daddymack]

none blacker...😉

and the black ukeleles, the black lapsteel, the brown lapsteel and the black electric violin aren't in that photo...and there are a couple guitars more now...I gave the mahogany SG away to MommaMack's cousin, and added a D'Angelico Premier DC [335] and a Danelectro 12 string [both black], an Applause [Ovation] acoustic-electric fretless short scale bass and a Martin a/e 12 string [not black... yet...].

What can I say? It became a 'thing' with me way back, and kind of snowballed...or coalballed...😁

The advantage is MommaMack just sees a 'black guitar'...and really doesn't know how many there are...