Powered Subwoofer Recommendation

[1tribe]

 

Not everyones going to like them... And I have no clue what your background or gear might be. But any decent sub can sound boomy and lack luster if not properly eq'd. With a little work, I always got a very big, tight sound from them. When i used them for a few DJ gigs...with no eq inserted, they WERE boomy. A combo of no eq and me playing crap like ying yang twins!

 

 

 

 

Currently using SRX718's.

[agedhorse]

 

Your very correct Andy, according to the spec's for the VRX918SP that has the same numbers (SPL) as the VRX/SRX they are tested in free space. So put that VRX on the floor and the spec's get alot closer.

 

 

Yes, this is as I suspected.

 

This is one of the problems with blindly quoting and relying on incomplete specs. When I design with equipment that I do not have a lot of experience with, I will ask for the complete engineering specs so that I may make my own, more accurate assessment. I will calculate everything based on the installed space and I may use 1/2-space or 1/4-space to my advantage if it makes for a better installation and doesn't interfere with something else.

 

I have enough experience w/ the JBL product that I have a good enough gut feeling about how much I need and how the LF coupling will alter the summed response. I also have enough experience designing commercial speaker products that I know what's realisticly possible and what is as unlikely as pigs flying.

 

Regarding horn loaded subs, while there are some very good products out there, many suffer from throat geometry issues like "one note bass" and peaky, non-linear response. That may be a good tradeoff for some applications, but not good for others. I am keenly aware of both sides of this coin.

[Al Poulin]

 

While Im in a minority here, I personally dont like the sound of the LS800p. Had one, yeah got loud but pretty much a one note wonder and very boomy too.

 

 

Honestly, I would give the one note wonder title to the LS700P because of its bandpass design which makes it respond more to some notes than others. I have been using it for about 5 years and have never had anyone in the crowd mention its non uniform frequency response, however. All I know, is when someone in the crowd said "TURN IT UP!", the LS700P always had enough power to keep up with any of my tops. I think this is what really matters.

 

In the case of the LS801P, yes it is a little boomy - but most people probably won't notice or care in most live sound situations.. (You can choose to have the sub DEEP or LOUD (knob on the back) and turning it more towards loud will make it less boomy). Bottom line though, IT PUTS OUT. It will fill in the low end of a system with authority and shake the walls if needed. At the price one can be had, you will have a hard time finding another powered sub with comparable output. If you don`t mind the size and weight, its almost a no brainer.

 

Al - Party-Time! DJ Services

[jwlussow]

 

See above Incidentally, nice to see the 720s users come on here and say how pleased they are with them.   Quote: Originally Posted by RANUI I did say that the PRX718 was probably better than the 518, never heard a 518 so I dont know. So why would you cut down the 518 if you have never heard one? That REALLY helps the OP.   WHAT, Make of the above what you will, if I had said the 718 was possible better, would that have helped. Mike Pyle said he thought 518 sounded soggy and thats now good enough for me. (Hi Mike, hope you dont mind me using your opinion, even though this had nothing to do with 518s originally) AJ   I don

[jwlussow]

 

So we've been playing small to medium sized clubs and bars but we are starting to get into bigger places. Our typical crowd is about 200 people. For mains i'm using Mackie 1530's which are full range powered speakers and i'm happy with them so far. For the subs i'm using powered jbl118sp subs which honestly suck and most of the time i can't even tell if they're on. Our mains do pack some good low end but i still want a good sub to compliment it. I was looking into yorkville ls700 and 720. Anyone have any other ideas? I'd like something along the lines of $800 a sub/powered.

 

 

In my opinion, the PRX518 will outperform the 700 or 720 in the real world. For a little more cash the PRX718 or the Yorkie 801 will set you up nicely. Even the 700 and 720 will be noticeably better then the JRX118s. I

[Al Poulin]

As much as I love Yorkville, I also don't think an LS720P will outperform a 518. What I think was maybe implied is that the increase in performance from the 720P to the 518 is not as significant as the big difference in price.

 

The LS720P is a nice sounding sub BUT I found it somewhat limited in output when I tested it (it was easy to get it into limiting) and I could not see it performing very well in a live sound situation (especially with kick drum) UNLESS used in pairs or in very small venues. The 700P just cuts it for small venues, but even then, I would prefer a pair. I was not able to get the LS800P to limit when I tried it, and I did have as loud as was reasonably possible in a small bar playing back dance tracks. Lots of SPL for the $$$ if you can deal with the size and weight. I said this already didn't I? In my situation, I would rather move the 518 though...

 

Al

[agedhorse]

 

As much as I love Yorkville, I also don't think an LS720P will outperform a 518. What I think was maybe implied is that the increase in performance from the 720P to the 518 is not as significant as the big difference in price. Al

 

 

 

I think this is probably quite an accurate statement.

[Bobby1Note]

It would be interesting to read AudioEasts' take on this matter (PRX 518s vs LS720p), since they sell both. I tried to find the PRX718s on their site, but for some reason, it's not listed.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Wish I hadnt sold a Yorkville 720p to buy a Prx718.

 

 

Seems reasonable to conclude that this was based on relative performance. Perhaps that's where the disconnect started.

[RANUI]

True, you never used those exact words. You entered this discussion by posting nothing more than: Wish I hadnt sold a Yorkville 720p to buy a Prx718. Seems reasonable to conclude that this was based on relative performance. Perhaps that's where the disconnect started.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcastar

The PRX518s is weak sauce. They're barely a half step up from the JRX-SP's... I wouldn't even consider it. The PRX718s is much nicer.

Yorkville LS720p's are hard to beat for cost/size/performance. I'm considering picking 1 up just to have for small club shows.

QSC HPR's are very nice as well.

 

'Wish I hadnt sold a Yorkville 720p to buy a Prx718.'

 

'Was what I posted in response to the above post by dcastar

It seemed reasonable at the time as the original post was to buy a sub for $800. PRX 518 being $950 and the PRX 718 at $1200 or so, advertised price.

And yes, my response was based on relative performance, also cost and size, which I have previously said, and which has mostly been ignored.

I had hoped that a/some PRX 718 users would have come on and given their opinions

I do think that the Manufacturers Specs. can leave a lot to be desired. They indicated that the PRX 718 was 5dB louder than the 720s, so the 718 should have been noticeably louder? Im not sure of the actual increase in sound levels but I had the idea that a 10db increase was twice as loud? I will have access to another PRX718 next week and so will be able to do another comparison, which I will keep to my self !!! Maybe the first one was faulty, but it did work, and got fairly loud.

This thread has generated some heat, hopefully some light.

As moderator, you could have done more to control some of the heat by picking up on some of the more outrageous claims that were being made instead of picking on me, the 'noob' as some would like to say. And yes, I did blow some smoke and twist a tail as hard as I could, but that only started after you suggested that that was what I was doing.

This could well be the longest thread on powered subs, unless you remove it

[Craig Vecchione]

This thread has generated some heat, hopefully some light. As moderator, you could have done more to control some of the heat by picking up on some of the more outrageous claims that were being made instead of picking on me, the 'noob' as some would like to say. And yes, I did blow some smoke and twist a tail as hard as I could, but that only started after you suggested that that was what I was doing. This could well be the longest thread on powered subs, unless you remove it

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. You really should re-read your own posts. What you claim is "picking on the noob" was my comment that your posts were condescending and arrogant. I will add sarcastic to that as well.

 

My comment about this was in fact my way of politely letting you, the noob (remember, those were your words, not mine) know that what you were doing was pushing the boundary. I'll clarify...by calling people names (fanboy), you're making it an ad hominem rather than sticking with the topic. That's a no-no here. To further antagonize with the condescending sarcasm is the combo that gets me to respond as moderator.

 

Now if you think I'm being tougher on you as the new guy, you're absolutely correct. Sorry, but that's just how it goes. Until you prove yourself someone who isn't here just to start trouble, you'll be under closer watch. I've been here long enough to spot problem members quite early, and to nip those problems in the bud. You didn't cross any lines, but you're way too close. You admit here to "twisting a tail" as hard as you could. That doesn't fly here, and I'll ban someone for that behavior even if they didn't break any specific rules. In fact, the harder someone tries to fall within the rules but still stay "safe", the more likely I'll come down hard. I don't like sneaky.

 

I could and someday may shorten the "rules and guidlines thread" to one entry: "Don't be a dick". That sums up how I try to moderate this place. Just chill a bit, and rethink your approach to people here, and it'll all be okay. Argue the point, not the person. We don't have to agree, ever. But we do have to try to remain civil.

[Rumorsband]

Sequence trio - currently use 2 JBL EON 515's. Would like to add only 1 sub (space constraints. Below is what I have listened to. Appreciate any advice:

 

518s with 1 515 - 518 was all the way up, so I don't think one would match well with 2 515's

 

Yorkville 720S or NX720 (same) with 1 NX55P... sounded really good. Could not hear with my 2 JBL's.

 

QSC K sub with 1 JBL 515. Vol on sub was at 1/2 vol and balance was good, so I imagine it would work well with 2 Eons.

 

I am trying to rent a 720 for tonite to use on a gig. Everything else I heard was in the "store".

 

What does everyone think of the K series stuff? I can believe that each 12 is getting 500 watts, however I have a hard time believing that they put 500 watts to the woofer of the K8, and 500 more to the horn without sending a projectile. ( Don't like the K tops ...at all)

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Sequence trio - currently use 2 JBL EON 515's. Would like to add only 1 sub (space constraints. Below is what I have listened to. Appreciate any advice: 518s with 1 515 - 518 was all the way up, so I don't think one would match well with 2 515's Yorkville 720S or NX720 (same) with 1 NX55P... sounded really good. Could not hear with my 2 JBL's. QSC K sub with 1 JBL 515. Vol on sub was at 1/2 vol and balance was good, so I imagine it would work well with 2 Eons. I am trying to rent a 720 for tonite to use on a gig. Everything else I heard was in the "store". What does everyone think of the K series stuff? I can believe that each 12 is getting 500 watts, however I have a hard time believing that they put 500 watts to the woofer of the K8, and 500 more to the horn without sending a projectile. ( Don't like the K tops ...at all)

 

 

There's a real disadvantage in not hearing the subs with your tops, as all the mid-bass is in your tops, and that will affect your impression.

 

The K's HF is protected with DSP that keeps levels reasonable. It never sees 500 watts. They just use that amp because it's actually cheaper to build a pair of 500w amps than a custom-sized amp to match the HF.

[Rumorsband]

Thanks.. I agree. Thats why I'm trying to rent the Yorky for tonite. I found that when using a sub without a HPF (K and Yorkville), you p[lace the Eons in the Cut position and it makes a world of difference.

 

Anyone have an opinion of the K sub versus the LS720?

 

I was told if you really want to compare the yorkville you need to compare it to the QSC HPR series not the K...any true?

[tlbonehead]

Sequence trio - currently use 2 JBL EON 515's. Would like to add only 1 sub (space constraints. Below is what I have listened to. Appreciate any advice: 518s with 1 515 - 518 was all the way up, so I don't think one would match well with 2 515's Yorkville 720S or NX720 (same) with 1 NX55P... sounded really good. Could not hear with my 2 JBL's. QSC K sub with 1 JBL 515. Vol on sub was at 1/2 vol and balance was good, so I imagine it would work well with 2 Eons. I am trying to rent a 720 for tonite to use on a gig. Everything else I heard was in the "store". What does everyone think of the K series stuff? I can believe that each 12 is getting 500 watts, however I have a hard time believing that they put 500 watts to the woofer of the K8, and 500 more to the horn without sending a projectile. ( Don't like the K tops ...at all)

don't place total faith in where the gain is at on the subs for trying to decide which is lower. The sensitivity of the input may not be the same for different models, so some may require a stronger signal to realize their potential.

[agedhorse]

 

don't place total faith in where the gain is at on the subs for trying to decide which is lower. The sensitivity of the input may not be the same for different models, so some may require a stronger signal to realize their potential.

 

 

That was exactly my thoughts... the input sensitivity on the active sub must be balanced by the input sensitivity on the tops. My suggestion is to start with the tops, set the input gain 6dB below the maximum available, and then add the subs, bringing up the sub gain until the balance is correct. I also suggest using a real time analyzer to do this, as it will allow you to see the relative acoustic levels of the two bands.

 

Gains and/or knob positions by themselves on powered speakers mean nothing.

[Bobby1Note]

Andy,

 

Is there such a device as a stand-alone RTA at a reasonably affordable price? Can you recommend one or two?

 

Bob

[tlbonehead]

Andy, Is there such a device as a stand-alone RTA at a reasonably affordable price? Can you recommend one or two? Bob

I have an old DOD rackmount model that gives you a rough idea. They are pretty cheap.

[agedhorse]

 

I have an old DOD rackmount model that gives you a rough idea. They are pretty cheap.

 

 

That's what I would recommend. Easy to use and plenty accurate for this purpose.

[bigjd]

I could and someday may shorten the "rules and guidlines thread" to one entry: "Don't be a dick".

 

This is worthy.