Members BillESC Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) - Three more companies have agreed to tentative settlements related to The Station nightclub fire, which killed 100 people. Papers filed in federal court on Wednesday show that two bus companies and an amplifier company have tentatively agreed to pay a combined $1.3 million dollars to fire survivors and families of those killed. None of the companies admit wrongdoing. The 2003 fire was started by a pyrotechnics display for the band Great White. The band used speakers that night from JBL, Inc., and the suit accused them of making speakers that had flammable foam inside. The company says it will pay $815,000. ABC Bus Leasing, Inc., and Superstar Services are accused of transporting band members and the fireworks. They say they'll pay a combined $500,000. The total of the tentative settlements in the case is now more than $70 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Lawyers go after the deep pockets. How JBL or a bus company are liable is beyond me. About ten years ago the Black Crows played a concert in Knoxville. The company I worked for got the contract to do sound for the show. Two weeks before the show there were disputes over the contract and we pulled out. A sound company from either Atlanta or Nashville did the show. A man sued claiming hearing loss from excessive volume during the show. Our company was listed on the legal proceedings. WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!! Still the owner had to give swarn testimony stating we HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. 6-years latter he was still receiving summons to depositions about the case, the case WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted March 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 I understand completely. I was once sued for $ 125,000,000.00 because I sold a pair of Genie Lifts to a guy who years later set them up for lighting a concert. Just as the concert began, the weather went south causing the trusses to fall and cripple Curtis Mayfield. The suit included me because of "my proximity to the case." All I did was sell a product and yet it cost me nearly fifty grand in legal fees and all I made on the sale was $ 300.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 And some wonder why I'm so conservative about things like flying speakers and building your own staging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Once a lawsuit is filed, lawers go after everyone. The bus company has about as much responsibility as the garbage company that empties the dumpsters. The garbage companies settlement will probably be next week. :poke: Structural and electrical safety are as serious as fire safety. Good post Bill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 And some wonder why I'm so conservative about things like flying speakers and building your own staging. Yup. Along with trying to build your own distro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Its amazing business can stay viable. The cost of liability has either made goods and services more expensive, or has caused them to become no longer available. Who do you think is going to pay for JBL's and the bus company's settlements? WE WILL, by paying more for their products and services. And maybe JBL will change the design of their speakers so they are not so flammable, and the sound quality will suffer. And people also incorrectly think that huge companies have deep pockets, and since they can "afford" to pay, it doesn't really hurt anyone. Tell that to your neighbor who's just been laid off.... The way I see it, our tort system has become a crock of ####. One problem is the lottery mentality. People see huge jury awards in the headlines and think it is the way to easy street. Don't like the way things have turned out and you're down on your luck? Sue someone. The other problem is that with contingency payments for legal services, it can cost an individual nothing to file a case. Even if the case is eventually dropped without an award or settlement, the defense of such cases can cost thousands of dollars, if not more. Sometimes it can be cheaper to settle the case, which is likely what happened in the JBL and bus company/transport service cases. Even if they were sure they could win the case, the cost of taking a case to trial could be more than just paying the settlement (ever seen the movie "A Civil Action?"). The plaintiff attorneys rely on this. If we went to a system where each party paid their own legal expenses, we'd be much better. But Nooooo, that would deprive an individual of his/her rights..... Sorry for the rant, but it's easy for me to jump on the soapbox on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Wonder how long before the local Coke/Pepsi vendor gets sued because that brand cola isn't flame retardant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 The suit included me because of "my proximity to the case." All I did was sell a product and yet it cost me nearly fifty grand in legal fees and all I made on the sale was $ 300.00 It's stories like this that almost every business owner has. If you had been asked to settle for ten grand early on, you wouuld have thought the offer was crazy. After it was all said and done, you would have jumped at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) - Three more companies have agreed to tentative settlements related to The ...... They say they'll pay a combined $500,000. The total of the tentative settlements in the case is now more than $70 million. At the risk of leading us farther out to field, I hear you! Bussiness has turned in to "legal brinkmanship", seems to me that the industry has walked away from things like service and skill. Try as I might, I can't sell based on the fact we do a better job then the next guy, and we stay sober for the length of the show, and don't deal drugs to the acts. Seems this is not what is valued these days though. One for my compition, is doing VERY well for themselfs, growing FAR faster then we are, more moeny then they know what to do with (last I heard they where demoing a set of 50,000$ console-dispite the fact they ahve no idea how to use them). How do they do this? Well they don't file taxes - and dispite what some people say about it "catching up with them" I don't think it will, how is the government ever supost to track it down? They pay their people with pot. They produce illigal copies of speakers, they cut corners on installs that would may even the most care free people cringe, charging 10 times what anyone else would! They don't pay their bills, and count on the fact that no one will go to the effort of sueing them. How do I compete with that? How do you compete with someone that just doesn't care about breaking the law, and all morals, because they know lack the motivation, and money, to come after them. Do you take them on at their own game? .. Okay, rant over. I am just saying that I feel for you, I agree with you. but still don't know how to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Wonder how long before the local Coke/Pepsi vendor gets sued because that brand cola isn't flame retardant. Sue the state for sales of a combustible liquid (alcohol) in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members popgadget Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 I would suggest that the potential for a big payday has a lot more to do with the rash of Toyota "malfunctions" than any mechanical or electronic issues.It is important to remember though, that it is JURORS, not judges or lawyers that award these ridiculous judgments. It is the fear of what a jury might do that causes cases to settle rather be decided by a jury. Trial lawyers say that only a fool can be tried by a jury of his peers. If jurys did not make these obviously stupid awards, lawyers would not bring meritless cases to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wordbell Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Its amazing business can stay viable. The cost of liability has either made goods and services more expensive, or has caused them to become no longer available. Who do you think is going to pay for JBL's and the bus company's settlements? WE WILL, by paying more for their products and services. And maybe JBL will change the design of their speakers so they are not so flammable, and the sound quality will suffer. And people also incorrectly think that huge companies have deep pockets, and since they can "afford" to pay, it doesn't really hurt anyone. Tell that to your neighbor who's just been laid off....The way I see it, our tort system has become a crock of ####. One problem is the lottery mentality. People see huge jury awards in the headlines and think it is the way to easy street. Don't like the way things have turned out and you're down on your luck? Sue someone. The other problem is that with contingency payments for legal services, it can cost an individual nothing to file a case. Even if the case is eventually dropped without an award or settlement, the defense of such cases can cost thousands of dollars, if not more. Sometimes it can be cheaper to settle the case, which is likely what happened in the JBL and bus company/transport service cases. Even if they were sure they could win the case, the cost of taking a case to trial could be more than just paying the settlement (ever seen the movie "A Civil Action?"). The plaintiff attorneys rely on this. If we went to a system where each party paid their own legal expenses, we'd be much better. But Nooooo, that would deprive an individual of his/her rights.....Sorry for the rant, but it's easy for me to jump on the soapbox on this. Lottery mentality is exactly right. My sister and bro-in-law are both lawyers. "Loser Pays" would solve most of these problems with the tort system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Support tort reform!http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_howard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Its amazing business can stay viable. The cost of liability has either made goods and services more expensive, or has caused them to become no longer available. Who do you think is going to pay for JBL's and the bus company's settlements? WE WILL, by paying more for their products and services. And maybe JBL will change the design of their speakers so they are not so flammable, and the sound quality will suffer. And people also incorrectly think that huge companies have deep pockets, and since they can "afford" to pay, it doesn't really hurt anyone. Tell that to your neighbor who's just been laid off....The way I see it, our tort system has become a crock of ####. One problem is the lottery mentality. People see huge jury awards in the headlines and think it is the way to easy street. Don't like the way things have turned out and you're down on your luck? Sue someone. The other problem is that with contingency payments for legal services, it can cost an individual nothing to file a case. Even if the case is eventually dropped without an award or settlement, the defense of such cases can cost thousands of dollars, if not more. Sometimes it can be cheaper to settle the case, which is likely what happened in the JBL and bus company/transport service cases. Even if they were sure they could win the case, the cost of taking a case to trial could be more than just paying the settlement (ever seen the movie "A Civil Action?"). The plaintiff attorneys rely on this. If we went to a system where each party paid their own legal expenses, we'd be much better. But Nooooo, that would deprive an individual of his/her rights.....Sorry for the rant, but it's easy for me to jump on the soapbox on this. On my first trip to LA in the early 90's, one bus stop bench ad struck me. "Sleepless? Depressed? Irritable? Sue your boss!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Having the Station Night Club right down the street from me I can tell you that everyone/everything you can think of was named in the law suits.From the radio station that promoted the show to the booze distributors to everyone you can think of.It's still a big mess and nothing has been paid out yet of the 179million collected so far.(don't forget the lawyers are getting 1/3).It will never be enough money, and plenty more people that should have been held responsible will never see a day in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 My neighbor is a construction lawyer. His company is constantly settling frivolous lawsuits with no merit because it cost less to settle than to defend the lawsuit in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 It will never be enough money, and plenty more people that should have been held responsible will never see a day in court. I realize with your proximity to the venue... Really, 179 mill not enough money? I understand you can't put a price on human life, but still. "Plenty more people", you mean more than the bus company? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Seems like there is a different flavor of lawyer for every little thing in life doesn't it? I heard a good joke about lawyers the other day but I should probably refrain from that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 At the risk of leading us farther out to field, I hear you! Bussiness has turned in to "legal brinkmanship", seems to me that the industry has walked away from things like service and skill. Try as I might, I can't sell based on the fact we do a better job then the next guy, and we stay sober for the length of the show, and don't deal drugs to the acts. Seems this is not what is valued these days though. One for my compition, is doing VERY well for themselfs, growing FAR faster then we are, more moeny then they know what to do with (last I heard they where demoing a set of 50,000$ console-dispite the fact they ahve no idea how to use them). How do they do this? Well they don't file taxes - and dispite what some people say about it "catching up with them" I don't think it will, how is the government ever supost to track it down? They pay their people with pot. They produce illigal copies of speakers, they cut corners on installs that would may even the most care free people cringe, charging 10 times what anyone else would! They don't pay their bills, and count on the fact that no one will go to the effort of sueing them.How do I compete with that? How do you compete with someone that just doesn't care about breaking the law, and all morals, because they know lack the motivation, and money, to come after them.Do you take them on at their own game?..Okay, rant over. I am just saying that I feel for you, I agree with you. but still don't know how to deal with it. How do you compete? You drop a dime on them with the local tax authority. You narc them out regarding their method of "payment". Unless there's a detail I'm missing, there's no reason to sit back silently while your lunch is being eaten by these criminals. Then you offer 20 cents on the dollar for their now unused gear. "If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun. If he puts one of yours in the hospital, put one of his in the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone.":D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 How do you compete? You drop a dime on them with the local tax authority. You narc them out regarding their method of "payment". Unless there's a detail I'm missing, there's no reason to sit back silently while your lunch is being eaten by these criminals. Then you offer 20 cents on the dollar for their now unused gear. "If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun. If he puts one of your in the hospital, put one of his in the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone.":D +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 I realize with your proximity to the venue... Really, 179 mill not enough money? I understand you can't put a price on human life, but still. "Plenty more people", you mean more than the bus company? Who? You do realise that there were 100 people killed and over *200* seriously injured?? The number doesn't seem that big anymore does it, don't forget 1/3 goes to the lawyers. There were NO city officials (inspectors, fire marshall, that never did there job) that will ever be charged, not to mention they changed the local law making them non-liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 There were NO city officials (inspectors, fire marshall, that never did there job) that will ever be charged, not to mention they changed the local law making them non-liable.I've always found it "interesting" that politicians' idea of "tort reform" is to vote themselves immunity . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mcfontio Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Seems like there is a different flavor of lawyer for every little thing in life doesn't it? I heard a good joke about lawyers the other day but I should probably refrain from that Please please please. It's probably completely sound and appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 16, 2010 Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 Well Bill most folks knows exactly what wrong with our country Greed and corruption. it's been going on for 3 decades and the snowball effect is getting more noticeable now. Only by numbers can the public make them be held accountable for their actions and so far that ain't happen yet. Only thing that's happen is folks noticed devalue of their American dream life style. Majority of them are adapting to the devaluation of the American dream lifestyle. Instead demanding for accountability to the very official that cause the devaluation. Bill, remember back in the 60's during the Viet Nam area and the youth gather by numbers demanded accountability, Then MLK came along demanded accountablity. Nixon screwed the pooch to all Americans and his butt got impeached. He did manage to Abolish the Gold standard which did away with limitation of borrowing now our government can borrow ungodly amounts because their no gold standard to back up what they borrow. Most of are youth now a days are to busy on twitter and facebook and have been taught entitlement practices which make them lazy. Our only solution is by numbers and demand accountability again until then it's business as usual. just my 2 cents worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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