Members Phil Clark Posted October 11, 2010 Members Share Posted October 11, 2010 Ok, this is just sad. We stopped at a bar on our way home from a winery and there was a duo playing on the stage. We had just seen a four piece with two dual 18s subs and two tops, and no lights (outdoor daytime but still, they never use lights except on rare occasions). Anywho, this duo had (I didn't count) about 9-12 cabinets on each side of the stage, and they had a lighting truss with what must have been about 20 LED Pars sequenced plus floor flood lights. They were running tracks to cover parts they couldn't with a keyboard player and a lead guitarist. So the whole show was little more than Glorified karoke. It was at a biker bar that is usually jumping when the four piece plays there. But there was almost no one in under the cover listening to the duo. I felt sorry for them, because they were just playing to family basically. But at the same time... they just weren't that good. Not horrible, but just... dull... Lifeless. Anyone else see things like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted October 11, 2010 Members Share Posted October 11, 2010 There are so many bands that use backing track these days that I wouldn't automatically point the finger to that. Choice of material, whether or not the band has a loyal following and has established itself, quality of vocals and overall sound - these are far more important. Most clubgoers don't even notice whether or not a band is using backing tracks. I've seen bands stand around and not play at all while a complex orchestral intro is pumping through the mains, and a bar crowd won't pick up on it. It's amazing. Everyone notices if there isn't a drummer. If these guys were trying to play a biker bar with no drummer - well good luck on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 11, 2010 Members Share Posted October 11, 2010 I saw a duo a while back that had a guitarist and a percussionist who was playing one of those Roland electronic hand drum things - they really sounded excellent and full without backing tracks . They were using a single Bose "telephone pole" that sounded fine but the Bose sub sounded a bit "strained" with electronic "kick" going through it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoeDirt Posted October 11, 2010 Members Share Posted October 11, 2010 That sounds exactly like a band in my neck of the woods. Two people, guitarist and keyboard player. These guys are actually good musicians but even being good their shows still come off as lifeless and dull. Nothing replaces a live drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 One of the main reasons you see singles and duos using backing tracks is they want to sound like a band, but often times clubs don't want to put out the money to get a full band. As musicians, we are playing for the same pay as we were 25 or 30 years ago, sometimes even less. Club owners complain that because of DUI laws and the fact that people have so many more choices than going to a "bar" and listening to a band or any other kind of live music. So their revenues are down. I have to agree that there's no substitute for a live drummer. Unless a live drummer is using an electronic drum set and the volume can be controlled, that means that the band has to play loud enough to keep up with the drummer. So the relative volume usually is louder than a duo. There are "good" backing tracks, not so good backing tracks, and bad backing tracks. There are companies that sell good quality backing tracks, but expect to pay for them too. I've spent years creating, editing, copying, and mixing backing tracks for my show, and its very time consuming. Backing tracks I start for stratch require that I learn how to play each part correctly, and capture the essence of the original recording. Learning how to mix properly is not something anyone can say they learned to do over night. The next logical step is to learn how to program dynamics into songs, and that applies to not only backing tracks, but to any live group that wants to be any good. All too often, I've heard bands play at one level all night....LOUD. That is pretty lifeless too. Cheers, Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 My duo only uses a drum machine. Everything else is live. We also play out as a 3 piece with our drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 I'd rather see duos arrange their songs for the instruments they have instead of trying to electronically simulate an entire band. Slightly OT: anybody catch the most recent episode of Metalocalypse where Pickles goes into rehab and they replace him with a drum machine? Good stuff. :-) -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 55fmj Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 I am not a fan of backing tracks. It is just "fake" to me. I would much rather hear the live music "as is" than to hear a bunch of recorded music with someone trying to play along. That's kareoke. Of course that is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted October 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 My wife talked to the owner, and he said he was disappointed with the music and the turnout. People mulled about in the parking lot, socializing (which they always do) but didn't tend to wander in to listen to the music (which they usually do). Early in the season he had told my friends with the four piece that he wasn't going to do live music on Sunday any more, but this was before he heard the new configuration of the band (new Drummer and Lead Guitarist). The new members brought the energy up 250%, and the crowd loves them even more. Suddenly the bar booked them for 2 - 4 gigs a month, Saturdays and Sundays. A high energy band (full band) cannot be beat by any drum machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 There are so many bands that use backing track these days that I wouldn't automatically point the finger to that. Choice of material, whether or not the band has a loyal following and has established itself, quality of vocals and overall sound - these are far more important. Most clubgoers don't even notice whether or not a band is using backing tracks. I've seen bands stand around and not play at all while a complex orchestral intro is pumping through the mains, and a bar crowd won't pick up on it. It's amazing. Everyone notices if there isn't a drummer. If these guys were trying to play a biker bar with no drummer - well good luck on that one. They should have use this with a cardbaord cut out of drums and drummer behind them. problem solve. The drunker they get the more they swear you had a drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 12, 2010 Members Share Posted October 12, 2010 [YOUTUBE]2U0wGPi1zXw[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 by IsildursBane:I'd rather see duos arrange their songs for the instruments they have instead of trying to electronically simulate an entire band. Most musicians would agree. However, the general public that goes to see cover or tribute bands expect the musicians to play those songs as close to the original as possible. Note for note will work, exact drum beats, rolls, and fills are expected, its not an option. I've been playing in bands for decades and thats what people expect. Why would anyone go see a tribute band if they didn't sound like the band they are paying tribute too? So backing tracks (good ones) are a way for musicians to duplicate music for smaller groups of people that wouldn't hire a band because of the cost or because of the volume. I've done a One Man Band act since the early eighties and I book private parties and play in small private clubs. Not very glamorous, but that's the market that I can handle and get paid enough to make it worth doing. I play classic rock and even the old people want to get up and dance. No way I could hold a crowd with just piano and a lead vocal. They would leave after a few songs. I use to be a full time solo act on the road back in the eighties and people get bored with a solo player (no matter how good he/she is) and won't stay an entire night. (I'm talking about rock, classic rock, pop, blues, etg, not jazz). Many musicians say they don't like backing tracks, and thats fine. But they have worked well for me, I am able to play and sing songs I could otherwise not play live, and clubs and organizations book me often enough so it works. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 They should have use this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpw8rNZ2xVA with a cardbaord cut out of drums and drummer behind them. problem solve. The drunker they get the more they swear you had a drummer. my duo should have that! [YOUTUBE]_vAABqZ1Ztk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 ...No way I could hold a crowd with just piano and a lead vocal. They would leave after a few songs. I use to be a full time solo act on the road back in the eighties and people get bored with a solo player (no matter how good he/she is) and won't stay an entire night. (I'm talking about rock, classic rock, pop, blues, etg, not jazz).Speak for yourself I have done this since the 80's. Without tracks. And many others do. Many musicians say they don't like backing tracks, and thats fine. But they have worked well for me, I am able to play and sing songs I could otherwise not play live, and clubs and organizations book me often enough so it works.People don't go out to hear songs note for note as the recording. If so, they could as well listen to the CD... But what they want to is to hear songs and recreate the emotions and moment from the songs. You can do this by capturing the essence of the songs and learn how to deliver it to your audience. If you do this, you keep the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hoppy Shimko Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 I am doing a run of shows right now that has a 15 piece big band along with 6 singers and dancers. Excellent production values. The kind of show JR used to do back in the casino heydays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted October 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 Most musicians would agree. However, the general public that goes to see cover or tribute bands expect the musicians to play those songs as close to the original as possible. I might agree if you go to see a Tribute band. But not a cover band. A cover band is covering music by artists you like, but not trying to look and sound just like the original artists. I recently saw a ZZ Top Tribute band. They looked pretty good, and sounded ok, but they were so locked into the look and sound aspect of the music that it was boring to watch. I much prefer to see a group cover the songs and give them excitement and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 Most musicians would agree. However, the general public that goes to see cover or tribute bands expect the musicians to play those songs as close to the original as possible. Note for note will work, exact drum beats, rolls, and fills are expected, its not an option. I've been playing in bands for decades and thats what people expect. Why would anyone go see a tribute band if they didn't sound like the band they are paying tribute too? Cover band != Tribute band. If a tribute band doesn't have the right number of musicians or the right instruments, they're not really a tribute band, are they? What kind of tribute band would show up with half the arrangement sequenced? Any cover band I've ever seen has had the latitude to vary the arrangement of a song. As stupid and shallow as I think the general populace is, I think you sell them short when saying that they expect every cover act to play every cover tune note-for-note. IME, people actually dig variations that are done well. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 I would suggest Tom Jackson and Alex Boye's DVD's for anyone who wants to work a bit with their show and onstage performance and delivery. Let's just say that there are things way more important than tracks, autentic guitar sound, pitch accuracy, note for note correctness etc.... After learning some tricks, I noticed that people listen to you way less and look at you way more than you think. Try starting moving onstage, put away that music stand and stool, look at people, play at them and you'll soon see. I realized that many track users often appear static and dull, because their show is very locked into what the backing tracks decides. They tend to improvise less because of much less freedom, which translates into boring show. I once was very suprised by a "drum machine user", as I hate those devil boxes and expected to fall asleep after the first song. Now I know why he made it work: He took control over it!: Turned it off and on (he played totally without on songs which many can't do at all) adjusted tempo midsong all the time, and played it: There were pads on it, and he smacked them all the time live. Ha had two keyboards, one for each hand and he had some bass pedals too. His feet and hands where all over the place, he stood on the piano, stool, danced and made a helluva show. He was totally in control vs 99% who is totally under control of that damned box!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted October 13, 2010 Members Share Posted October 13, 2010 By Bajazz:Speak for yourself I have done this since the 80's. Without tracks. And many others do. Right. Where do you player? How often? WHAT do you play? Who are these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 14, 2010 Members Share Posted October 14, 2010 You got a laptop? go here http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EZdrummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 14, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 Right. Where do you player? How often? WHAT do you play? Who are these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 14, 2010 Members Share Posted October 14, 2010 Are you saying that a solo act can't keep a crowd entertained with one instrument, a good voice, and a talent for entertainment? Guess he never heard of this guy or this duo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2iS8XctJKo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 14, 2010 Members Share Posted October 14, 2010 As Craig hinted, there are plenty of outstanding solo acts out there touring and selling out 500-1000 seat venues with regularity. How about Tommy Emmanual, Doc Watson, Kris Kristofferson just to mention a few I've worked with recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted October 14, 2010 Members Share Posted October 14, 2010 jackson browne does ok too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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