Members tim_7string Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 My band is starting to get pretty busy lately and the gigs are getting bigger and more complex. Because of this, I'm looking to get some more gear to upgrade what we have to something more efficient or simply better. I would like to buy a 100' snake, probably a 16x4 to start with, and run sound from out front with a wireless (the guitarist and I both have one), until we actually hire a soundman/lightman. However, right now, we are using two powered mixers. One (Peavey 12 channel, 150w+150w) is used for most of the drums (except the kick drum), both guitars and the bass guitar. The other one (Yamaha EMX512SC 8/12 channel, 500w+500w) is used for four vocals, the kick drum, keyboard and MP3 player. We use the first one as a mixer only and none of these instruments are in the monitors. It's used as a submixer which feeds into the second one on a stereo channel. For that second powered mixer, we don't use the power amps for the mains (a QSC GX-3 covers that), just for monitors. The main out from this second mixer feeds into the GX-3 and is split between subs and mains. The subs are Yamaha SW118Vs and the mains are Yamaha S115Vs. We use two Yamaha SM12V floor monitors. I am thinking I will need at least one more power amp for the monitors if I want to get a snake and I'll just simply not use the internal power amps for either powered mixer until we get a 'real' mixer (passive 20-24 channel). I would also like to eventually go stereo with our PA and I'm sure I'll need another GX-3 so I can have one on each side (sub/main for one GX-3, sub/main for the other GX-3). Would three GX-3s make sense in this situation or should I get something else. I really, REALLY like the combination the Yamaha mixer/QSC power amp/Yamaha Club speakers makes together, sonically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 1) If you don't have a soundman, why do you need a snake? 2) Why would getting a snake change how many monitor amps you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 If you decide to get new amps and you are happy with the qsc it would make sense to stay in the same family. The gx seems like a good amp. I've never owned qsc but everything i hear is positive. Another option which would work is to just run a speaker cable from the back to the front. Although 100' is longer than ideal i would assume you are not actually going to use the full 100'? In the end though you will find it makes sense to have amps at the front (stage). Shorter speaker cable runs and generally less clutter. Perhaps you could consider getting a dedicated board for the back like a mg16/6 or 206 and using the 512 as a power amp only? Not sure though, does that model have power amp ins? A last thought is that you can get snakes with speaker cables built in specifically for powered mixers. I havent seen one for years but they do exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hey, why don't you clue us in as to at least what country you are in? Someone here might be local to you and even have some spare stuff for sale cheap . And forgetaboutit as far as having the mixer out front unless you have somebody to tend it for you - just wander out front to see what needs fixin' and go back onstage and fix it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 16x4 100' snakes have really low resale value. you could probably find a used one for under $100 i really like my 16x8 150' snake. i couldnt see myself buying any less than that unless i had a separate monitor rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think you need a crossover, a GX5 for your subs, one per side, and a new mixer like a mixwiz or a presonus 16.4.2. That would provide you with a large upgrade that makes more sense.Use the GX3 you have for the tops. One per side.If you get another two SM12V monitors, another GX3 is in order. Then you have capability of 4 separate monitor mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 16x4 100' snakes have really low resale value. you could probably find a used one for under $100 The difference between a good 16 x 4 and a good 24 x 8 snake is about $150. If you are planning on ever upgrading it might be better to just get a bigger one now if the depreciation on the first one is more than the difference in the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted September 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 1) If you don't have a soundman, why do you need a snake? As I said, two of us would be going out with wireless guitars and checking the sound. I would prefer to be able to change it and actually hear it change as I'm turning a knob or moving a fader while out in front, rather than going back onstage, moving a knob or fader, saying "I THINK that will fix it," discovering it didn't do anything, then going back up again. Saves time and trouble. 2) Why would getting a snake change how many monitor amps you need? Apparently you misunderstood something. The monitor amp is inside of the powered mixer. If the powered mixers are located out on the floor, I would need a super-long Speakon cable (100') just to connect to the monitors onstage (or in front of it). Not something I really want to do, especially because they are expensive. I'd rather use the snake to connect the mixer output to the future monitor amp onstage and from there to the monitors. Some might say, "It would be cheaper to get the long-ass Speakon cable instead of a power amp." Well, yes, this is true. But I'm trying to prepare for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted September 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Where are you? Oh, how people quickly forget. Grand Forks, ND. I used to have my Location under my avatar, but got rid of it after an incident regarding my old band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 I got a 100ft 16x8 from Audiopile I'm looking to get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 As I said, two of us would be going out with wireless guitars and checking the sound. I would prefer to be able to change it and actually hear it change as I'm turning a knob or moving a fader while out in front, rather than going back onstage, moving a knob or fader, saying "I THINK that will fix it," discovering it didn't do anything, then going back up again. Saves time and trouble. An unattended mixer in an FOH location might lead to trouble as well? I suppose maybe somebody's gf could sit there and keep the drunks away from the mixer? I guess it could work. I've never seen a band mix like that before though. Apparently you misunderstood something. The monitor amp is inside of the powered mixer. If the powered mixers are located out on the floor, I would need a super-long Speakon cable (100') just to connect to the monitors onstage (or in front of it). Not something I really want to do, especially because they are expensive. I'd rather use the snake to connect the mixer output to the future monitor amp onstage and from there to the monitors. Some might say, "It would be cheaper to get the long-ass Speakon cable instead of a power amp." Well, yes, this is true. But I'm trying to prepare for the future. Yeah, I'm still confused I think. This is one convoluted set up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 I got a 100ft 16x8 from Audiopile I'm looking to get rid of. Reel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 No, regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 An unattended mixer in an FOH location might lead to trouble as well? I suppose maybe somebody's gf could sit there and keep the drunks away from the mixer? I guess it could work. I've never seen a band mix like that before though. It's never been a problem for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 It's never been a problem for us. You had somebody sitting out at the board every gig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted September 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 An unattended mixer in an FOH location might lead to trouble as well? I suppose maybe somebody's gf could sit there and keep the drunks away from the mixer? I guess it could work. I've never seen a band mix like that before though. Yeah, that's the plan, putting my wife there to monitor everything (and perhaps eventually learn how to run sound). Plus, most "soundmen" in my past would just drink and chat up babes anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 You had somebody sitting out at the board every gig? Not every gig, sometimes I would play at the board for the first 2 sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yeah, that's the plan, putting my wife there to monitor everything (and perhaps eventually learn how to run sound). Plus, most "soundmen" in my past would just drink and chat up babes anyway. OK. cool. (I guess your wife's not playing bass now?) Well, as near as I can figure out your set up it seems like you're probably on the best path for the future. Assuming "the future" means dedicated mixer-->snake--->power amps--->speakers, the only suggestion I would make is get an amp for your monitors that you can later use for the mains and when you get a proper FOH mixer, you can use your powered mixer for the monitors. But I'm guessing that was already your plan. Another consideration is selling some of the stuff you have and moving towards active speakers. I'm a big fan of actives as they cut down on space and set-up time and don't weigh any more than passives. Honestly, I don't know if ANYBODY is going to be using passive stuff ten years from now except the big-BIG show guys and small time dad-bands still stuck with their ancient gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Not every gig, sometimes I would play at the board for the first 2 sets. You didn't worry about random people coming up and tweaking knobs? People must be waaaay more polite in SD than they are in Cali... :poke: And you played at the board for the first 2 sets? Really? What instrument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Piano. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 You didn't worry about random people coming up and tweaking knobs? People must be waaaay more polite in SD than they are in Cali... :poke:And you played at the board for the first 2 sets? Really? What instrument? Play the bass. Our "sound guy" was only able to make about half our gigs cause his studio was booked. We did the gf thing or the random diehard fan that we gave them the "honor" of sitting at the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Piano. ;-) Ya, I meant to say THE DRUMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Not every gig, sometimes I would play at the board for the first 2 sets. Any problem playing with the 100mSec time delay at 100'??? I know that would make playing pretty much impossible for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harryh Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 I got a 100ft 16x8 from Audiopile I'm looking to get rid of. Rezrover, you got mail, I'm interested in your snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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