Members NUSound Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 What's light peak? Look here. Kidding aside, it's the next generation of high-speed transfer protocols like Firewire 400/800 and USB 2.0/3.0. Something like 20Gbits/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members popgadget Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well... if it's any consolation... my pickup wasn't running quite right today while hauling some firewood... adjusting the points seems to have gotten it out of it's funk (while I was wearing some socks that Liz darned). Alpaca socks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Apogee, Motu,and Universal Audio all announce their in the works on light peak interfaces. The Agogee light peak will be on the symphony interface. It was announced in their websites. So it's coming and bet it gonna be then less then 5 years.Not disrespecting you Age but I been a DAW user since 98 so I seen this stuff come and go. So I stay a generation behind since the first generation are usually plaque with problems. I don't care if you are a DAW user or not, you seem to imply that I am a bumbling old idiot who has no idea about anything high tech. Tommy, you couldn't be farther from the truth and your implications of this are getting old and rather insulting. I was just recently awarded a patent for some SMPS/class d signal processing technology that I developed with a co-worker and am working on several more in the areas of high tech audio. How many patents do you have? Tommy, I may not use a DAW but that doesn't mean that I don't understand how they work, what the architecture is based upon and how data is transmitted and received. I also pay attention to the various SMPTE and AES developments, so I am probably in a better position to predict this stuff than you are. My feeling (this is an educated opinion) is that this technology is at least 3-5 years away from being common place. There are still too many details being worked out regarding licensing between Intel and Apple (Intel owns much of this IP), there are still issues with practical longer distance optical links and the practical aspects of needing to carry power along with optical, there's the issue that the testing has been done currently with copper and the cost increment to transition to fiber may hinder the protocol. There is also the reluctance to change the installed user base that's using existing protocols, there's lower cost competing (closed network based) audio transfer protocols that are becoming accepted (Dante, Cobranet, A-Net), and the significant investment in new tooling and software by the individual device managers. These items will add years to the introduction timeline... IF it proves to be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Alpaca socks?Yes. The heels and toes wore-out... as they do on most socks (I suppose that's where the action is on socks... nothing feels quite as good as new socks, right?). I guess that's why somebody(s) invented darning needles and associated thread stuffs (good idea there if you ask me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't care if you are a DAW user or not, you seem to imply that I am a bumbling old idiot who has no idea about anything high tech. Tommy, you couldn't be farther from the truth and your implications of this are getting old and rather insulting. I was just recently awarded a patent for some SMPS/class d signal processing technology that I developed with a co-worker and am working on several more in the areas of high tech audio. How many patents do you have?Tommy, I may not use a DAW but that doesn't mean that I don't understand how they work, what the architecture is based upon and how data is transmitted and received. I also pay attention to the various SMPTE and AES developments, so I am probably in a better position to predict this stuff than you are.My feeling (this is an educated opinion) is that this technology is at least 3-5 years away from being common place. There are still too many details being worked out regarding licensing between Intel and Apple (Intel owns much of this IP), there are still issues with practical longer distance optical links and the practical aspects of needing to carry power along with optical, there's the issue that the testing has been done currently with copper and the cost increment to transition to fiber may hinder the protocol. There is also the reluctance to change the installed user base that's using existing protocols, there's lower cost competing (closed network based) audio transfer protocols that are becoming accepted (Dante, Cobranet, A-Net), and the significant investment in new tooling and software by the individual device managers. These items will add years to the introduction timeline... IF it proves to be viable. Look Andy all I said to Art is that light peak is on the way and usb and firewire will be obsolete some day and there's companies in the works and I'm betting within less then 5 year make of that what you will, if that's insulting to ya I dunno what to tell ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 What's light peak? It's now called Thunderbolt. Here's the thing... it takes time for a new interface standard to catch on. For example, Universal Audio just announced their first computer interface, bundled with their plug-in tech (which is great; I have a couple of their first-gen PCI boards in my old rackmount DAW computer). This new product supports both Thunderbolt and Firewire 800, which is cool for anyone looking to jump on that bandwagon. On the other hand, the Firewire 800 means nobody is really compelled to jump, if that's the interface they already have. That's what delays quick acceptance of a new standard -- legacy support like this new UA interface. When you see products that only support Thunderbolt, you'll know it's "arrived." I like using RME gear for computer interface products, so I'll start paying attention when RME fully supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Look Andy all I said to Art is that light peak is on the way and usb and firewire will be obsolete some day and there's companies in the works and I'm betting within less then 5 year make of that what you will, if that's insulting to ya I dunno what to tell ya. It was the snide DAW comment... the second time you insinuated that I was an old fashoned idiot. Maybe you don't grasp the whole communication thing that well or maybe English just isn't your native language, but some of your comments are pretty off the wall IMO, and makes me question where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted January 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 It was the snide DAW comment... the second time you insinuated that I was an old fashoned idiot. Maybe you don't grasp the whole communication thing that well or maybe English just isn't your native language, but some of your comments are pretty off the wall IMO, and makes me question where you are coming from. He is coming from "Jo mama's house" Sorry guys I couldn't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 everyone is on the ipad/ digital mixer bandwagon. It just might be, that Apple makes a solid and functional tablet that's readily available and not likely to vanish anytime soon. My Son was going to get an Acer tablet, only to find out that they've stopped production on that model. So he jumped into the garden and bought an ipad. (Garden = limited app availability due to Apple's control. Keep in mind that's nearly 500,000 apps, so it's a very big garden.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 It was the snide DAW comment... the second time you insinuated that I was an old fashoned idiot. Maybe you don't grasp the whole communication thing that well or maybe English just isn't your native language, but some of your comments are pretty off the wall IMO, and makes me question where you are coming from. Andy,I don't think "twostone" is insinuating anything and I don't read the "snide DAW comment" the way you are taking it:His remark was made in context of the USB/Firewire/more general soundcard evolutions and that he has seen trends of change throughout the various formats, whilst using DAWs. He then said that various manufacturers have announced that they will be using the new light peak standard, supporting his thought that USB and Firewire protocols will be replaced quickly with the light peak protocol in audio soundcards.That said, I do think twostone could use some work on grammar and communication skills.Best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ok, that's not how I have read his previous comments and his references to me being an oldtimer in less than favorable ways. Maybe I am missing the essence of his message? My feeling is that lightpeak as a replacement for anything current is much farther away if ever. The deeper into the existing userbase curve you get, the harder it is to change protocols as there is the userbase momentum of an existing (and reasonably stable) standard to overcome. There is also the additional cost associated and early adopter learning curve that must be overcome. Look at the DMX protocol that became the standard for the lighting industry. My partner was involved at the deepest technical level as the standards were being developed, followed the USITT development committee reviewing and analyzing. The idea behind DMX was robustness, ease of use, reliable and repeatable application, manufacturability and reasonable cost. It also had to be practocal. I think there's no argument that this was a home run protocol, and while it's long in the tooth, the installed userbase is so large and diverse that any new DMX standard has an uphill battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'd hate to see what you call the bottom of the barrel Behringer. Maybe mid market is fairer. Higher end bands tend to use RCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulvillemusic Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm actually getting interested in this mixer. Mainly due to the small footprint and some of the features the software may offer and the fact that I already have an iPad. At such a low entry cost it's worth trying. I noticed it states in small print on the Mackie site that to use the iPad wirelessly you have to hook a router up to the mixer. I'm not a network guy so this may be a dumb question but why can't they put built in routers in digital mixers so you're notebook or iPad can just network directly to the mixer? I've always wondered that. It seems like with most of the digital boards out there you have to have a computer hooked up to the mixer running the mixer software then create a network between that computer and another computer or iPad you are actually mixing on. Bringing two computers to run a mixer seem ridiculous and even though you don't have to do that with this Mackie you still have to hook up a separate router. I just bought a little little wifi midi translator box for my old 01v that creates it's own network and it's only about 2" x 2" x 4". I would think there would be room inside these things to house a router type of device that would allow you to just create a network directly with the mixer instead of using a separate router. Then again, I know nothing about networking so maybe there is a reason that isn't being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm highly interested in this as well. Assuming you had time for a decent soundcheck, it almost seems like you could leave this unit right on the stage, avoid the need for a snake, and just mix via iPad all night. (I suppose that assumes nothing goes critically wrong, but...) My hesitation is that I'd always be afraid of failure at the iPad level, even though I'm sure failure is significantly more possible at the mixer level. The price point is exactly right for something I'm willing to try, unlike the Line 6 unit, which is priced way beyond its intended market, IMO. I'd guess part of the problem with using an internal router would be the chassis itself. Several of the newer laptops coming out have had problems picking up wi-fi signals due to their build (specifically, a recent Samsung Series 9 that used Duralim as a chassis was blocking almost all wi-fi signal to the point where they had to change its entire design). I'd think a router built into a thick metal shell of a mixer just might not do that good of a job. In addition, noise may come into play... not to mention router amplifiers failing, which would be an expensive repair if it was built into the mixer as opposed to being able to run to Wal-Mart before the gig and buy a new router! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I also think router technology constantly improves. By not including a computer and router, the price out the door is less. Rediculous bringing a comp & router isn't a big deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 My hesitation is that I'd always be afraid of failure at the iPad level, even though I'm sure failure is significantly more possible at the mixer level. I dunno... I've had my iPad2 lock up or otherwise weird out, a few times. If I bought this mixer (and I'm thinking about it, along with taking a long look at that Line 6 mixer), I might want to use an iPad stripped down with nothing but the audio software. Basically the same way you'd treat a laptop used for recording or mixing audio. That approach would deflate some of the appeal, for those of us who already own an iPad. On the other hand, another iPad tossed in a bag would be a good backup if if something does go wrong with the first one. Mackie is offloading a whole bunch of concerns about computer and OS stability, with this approach. Maybe not a bad thing, considering Mackie's recent reputation and financial woes. I wonder how well it multitasks. Is the mix stable if you switch to another app, or does it need all the cores and RAM? I use an iPad at gigs for set lists and charts, and it would be cool to flip back and forth from the set list to the mixer, on the same iPad clamped to my mic stand. That might be asking too much, though. I'd guess part of the problem with using an internal router would be the chassis itself. I don't think it's an internal router. (EDIT) Oops, I see that was already covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 But if you buy the mackie digital (or any ipad specific gear) and have to buy another ipad just for that console then you're pricing has gone up considerably. I'd think you're in presonus territory or 01V96. The wireless mixing thing is cool, I'm not convinced it's been thought through yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Being able to walk back to the bar, walk to the manager, say "Everything sound okay to you?", hearing "Can you bring it down a little?", and bringing a fader down on your wirelessly-connected iPad just sounds like a goddamn killer feature to me. iPads are cheap; you can get a used one on Craigslist for ~$250 now, if you don't have one already. For what I could sell my MixWiz and giant 14U slant rack case, I could get the Mackie and pay nothing out of pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 My wife's I-pad locked up last night. There was hell to pay and I wasn't even around it when it failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 "We have been given a date of Feb 16 for the arrival of this item. This date is not guaranteed, rather an estimate based on either information obtained directly from the manufacturer or historical delivery data for the specific manufacturer" I dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Does an iPad3 fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 My wireless router locked up tonight and had to be rebooted, my wireless broadband supplier had external interference problems yesterday and I was without reliable broadband for 24 hours while they worked to resolve it. The reliability of this open architecture stuff is not good enough for me (under the pressure of a live show environment) yet. Either closed architecture or hard wired dedicated OS at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2012/01/25/wnamm12-mackie-dl1608-ipad-digital-mixer/ This is worth a look. Looks very simple to use. Feel gas building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Looks pretty damn cool. They really did think this thru and hit a nice balance of features, it'd be nice if there were 1 or 2 stereo inputs for MP3/CD. Off the top of my head I could see this working well for about 1/2 the bands I work with, the main limitation is the channel count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 The reliability of this open architecture stuff is not good enough for me (under the pressure of a live show environment) yet. Either closed architecture or hard wired dedicated OS at this point. Well, the wireless function is just an extra feature. It's not an issue when it's docked, which is the main application. I agree in principal about closed architecture and dedicated OS, which is why my remote recording rig is all hardware-based. No laptops for me. On the other hand... if the main thing that's likely to fail on the Mackie mixer is the iPad, then $500 gets you a 2nd one as a backup. What would it cost to have a hot swap backup handy for something like a StudioLive or the Line 6 mixer? If your band is using additional iPads as individual AUX monitor controllers for band members, then you've already got your backup units right there. Just grab one and switch it over to a master controller. I'm not arguing that either approach is better, just thinking out loud. I find both new mixers appealing for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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