Members Axisplayer Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 They are still learning to read.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 They are still learning to read.... I spit coffee for the first time in months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 They are still learning to read.... Hey! I reassemble that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hey! I reassemble that! Naw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think the guitars sound good for the most part.Here is a few more songs from the wedding. It does for the most part sound the same live. Just with big subs and some high end snap.Just a small local band so it won't compete with some here. Just wanted to show how mixes can be ok and sound clean when your not fighting a big back line volume. I muffed the delay on Dark Side somewhat. You can hear the guitar player trying to slow the keyboard player down. I picked a shorter delay time and it was too fast. I stayed with it anyway. The Keyboard player had two keyboards but submixed to me. You can hear me struggle to get things even. Again just a fun night. I mixed from the storage room for the chairs . No room for me in the room anywhere else. I'd run out and check the mix and run back. Somewhat Adult so keep it in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why not just use what Axis uses? a Palmer PGA-04 speaker sim. just tell the guitarist to leave his 4x12 cab at home and just bring the all tube 100w melt your face off shred machine amp head only to the gig. You get the best of both worlds, The guitar player has his dream amp head who wants to play at ear bleeding concert level but instead you got a DI signal you can work with for wedge or IEMs without all the ear bleeding. Just Food for thought just wish they would have thought about us bass players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 A long while back some friends of mine had some success with a band called Doug and the Slugs. IIRC there was a time when the two guitarists were using gtr. preamps and wedges because it gave the soundman more cnotrol. The original lineup quit the band a while back and Doug passed away but I heard through one of their current techs that the original band is back together, with a new front singer. Anyway, short story long, the wedges seemed to work for them at the time. I guess it depends on the style of music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I changed my guitar rig around to start using a 2x12 cab. I bought a nice Carvin Lagacy 2x12 and put a set of leanbacks from a Fender amp on it. I put it in front of me like a monitor. My cab on one side and my monitor one the other in a V shape. Mic in the middle and midi controller in front of that. This way I could have a mic'd cab like I want, be able to keep it at a decent volume, and have it sound better to me since it's seperate from my monitor mix. So if the guitarist really wants to mic a cab this might be a good sloution for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I changed my guitar rig around to start using a 2x12 cab. I bought a nice Carvin Lagacy 2x12 and put a set of leanbacks from a Fender amp on it. I put it in front of me like a monitor. My cab on one side and my monitor one the other in a V shape. Mic in the middle and midi controller in front of that. This way I could have a mic'd cab like I want, be able to keep it at a decent volume, and have it sound better to me since it's seperate from my monitor mix. So if the guitarist really wants to mic a cab this might be a good sloution for you. This is pretty coolhttp://www.tonesonics.com/Tonewedge.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrunskill Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Seriously, If you're think of going with preamps and individual monitor mixes, just get IEM'S! You'll have lower stage volume, and the room sound won't be too loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Seriously, If you're think of going with preamps and individual monitor mixes, just get IEM'S! You'll have lower stage volume, and the room sound won't be too loud. Agreed, but you also may be unhappy at the anemic environment you've put yourself in. I'm all for low stage volume, etc, and I've spent thousands on IEM sytems, custom molded IEM's, ambient microphones, and mixer that could give me a stereo feed. I've just never been happy with IEM's. The band sounds fine, but as soon as I start singing it just doesn't work. It doesn't help that the instrument is resonating out of my head and my ears are plugged by the earbuds that are feeding my voice back. Ambient mics just aren't the same experience as using my actual ears. I really truly I want to like it, but in 10 years of trying it hasn't happened yet. My custom molded buds are killer when mowing the yard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Same mixer we have, we use Roland drums too, and RCF 310A's as monitors and have been doing an almost "all wedge" setup with the band for the better part of 10 yrs now. The bass amp was the only thing on stage and that may even be changing, at least for wedding gigs as we're getting a new bass player and he's open to whatever we want. It allows us to maintain the volume we want/need to be while still sounding like whatever we want to sound like instead of mixing around the stage wash and that's where most bands trip up. The best gear, players and sound guru in the world can't get the desired sound if any part of the back line is louder than it would otherwise be in the FOH. The electronic drums really help this as, even when micing vocals only in small clubs using traditional kit, the cymbal and snare bleed into the microphones can make things unbalanced beyond repair, especially if the drummer is a heavy hitter. I have been playing with a drummer with vDrums for the last 3 years. The mix is WAY better especially for smaller gigs. We recently lost our bass player (lost his day job and left the state) and have been trying to replace him. The in-ear system has been the single most difficult thing to get most bass players to buy into. They all say how great we sound, but just want to have their wedge in their face ...... which I forbid. I am never going backwards to the days I had a wedge setup. We will look until we have a bass player that will adapt to our PA ..... definitely not the other way around! For the life of me I can not understand the stubborn mule-headiness that persists among seasoned musicians which prevents them from moving forward with the times. I would say that only about 5-10% of musicians have ever used IEM's around here. Over the years, I have had this issue many times. With only a single exception (a lead guitar player surprise surprise) every member of the band has adapted and completely agreed afterwards that an IEM system is a much better option than wedges. It is just really difficult to get musicians off the dime and out of the gates using them in the first place. They look at the ear buds like they are a pair of live snakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I have been playing with a drummer with vDrums for the last 3 years. The mix is WAY better especially for smaller gigs. We recently lost our bass player (lost his day job and left the state) and have been trying to replace him. The in-ear system has been the single most difficult thing to get most bass players to buy into. They all say how great we sound, but just want to have their wedge in their face ...... which I forbid. I am never going backwards to the days I had a wedge setup. We will look until we have a bass player that will adapt to our PA ..... definitely not the other way around! For the life of me I can not understand the stubborn mule-headiness that persists among seasoned musicians which prevents them from moving forward with the times. I would say that only about 5-10% of musicians have ever used IEM's around here. Over the years, I have had this issue many times. With only a single exception (a lead guitar player surprise surprise) every member of the band has adapted and completely agreed afterwards that an IEM system is a much better option than wedges. It is just really difficult to get musicians off the dime and out of the gates using them in the first place. They look at the ear buds like they are a pair of live snakes You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted February 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2012 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 ...The bands that consistently sound the best live, are those that spend the time to dial in good tones, position their stage amps so that everyone in the band can hear each other well, make sure that their rigs can bring stuff like solos up and down in volume, and are able to play dynamically. This is easy to take care of in rehearsals.On stage and from 20' out, instrumentally the band should be perfectly balanced, except for maybe the kick drum, w/the PA off.MG How do you position your amp/cab on stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrunskill Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 The bands that consistently sound the best live, are those that spend the time to dial in good tones, position their stage amps so that everyone in the band can hear each other well, make sure that their rigs can bring stuff like solos up and down in volume, and are able to play dynamically. This is easy to take care of in rehearsals.On stage and from 20' out, instrumentally the band should be perfectly balanced, except for maybe the kick drum, w/the PA off.MG This is all correct, Mark. But what about larger venues?For instance, I played today in a room that seats 400. I run a 50 watt head with a 1x12, and it's very beamy. There's no way it has the coverage pattern to fill that room. The volume? Maybe, but certainly not the spread.So that's a case for mic'ing the thing up and using the FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 OT- Just found an example of the Martin PA my band used to use back in the nineties. Six days a week 48 to 50 weeks a year. Move the PA (w/24 lights and truss) in on Monday and move it all out again on a Saturday night after the gig. Three bass bins, double mid and two horns a side, with a Souindcraft board, a Peavey monitor board , 10 space FX rack, FOH Power Amp Rack, Monitor amp rack.and two Martin and four Community wedges. I just saw the bass player who owned the system... it was originally well over $30K, maybe closer to $40k. Marko, maybe you want to buy it, I'm sure shipping wouldn't be much http://www.martin-audio.com/archivedproducts/datasheets/ModularPAdatasheet.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted February 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2012 This is all correct, Mark. But what about larger venues?For instance, I played today in a room that seats 400. I run a 50 watt head with a 1x12, and it's very beamy. There's no way it has the coverage pattern to fill that room. The volume? Maybe, but certainly not the spread.So that's a case for mic'ing the thing up and using the FOH. Yes, you let the FOH take care of the room, if it's that big. However, if the sound coming off the stage is still balanced, the soundguy just needs to make everything louder, to fill the venue. Onstage, you should be able to position all of your amps so that everyone can hear each other well. That's all you need to do... MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Even though I would like the idea of the control I would gain as a soundman, I have at least a little bit of distaste for this approach as I perceive it as just one more slippery step down the lip sync and autotune slope that ends up with a DJ, video or jukebox in place of a live band. At the same time, I admit that it losing any risk of the too loud guitar amp has it's up sides and freely admit that a DJ or jukebox are often better than way too many of the live bands out in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Even though I would like the idea of the control I would gain as a soundman, I have at least a little bit of distaste for this approach as I perceive it as just one more slippery step down the lip sync and autotune slope that ends up with a DJ, video or jukebox in place of a live band. At the same time, I admit that it losing any risk of the too loud guitar amp has it's up sides and freely admit that a DJ or jukebox are often better than way too many of the live bands out in the market. We turn the guitar cabs around to face the wall and mic them..... not quite "straight in" to the PA, but with the volume at a very reasonable level. The mains drowned out the amps in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 I have played using an Art SGX2000 processor (used for a couple of years, never really liked the sound) through wedges; my pedal board straight into the mixer (sounded quite good, but not quite as versatile as I like) for several months while my amp was being rebuilt; and now I'm back to using a Boogie MkIV miced. All rigs were usable; preference is for the Boogie. Stage volume has never been a problem. The Boogie gets run on tweed power with the master at ~1.5. Sounds great, extremely versatile for different styles of music, and so soft onstage that I have some coming back through my monitor so I can hear myself balanced with the other guitarist who uses a Princeton Chorus. The choice between processor or amp should not be a hard and fast band decision, but the guitarist also must work with the band on balancing stage sound and keeping things quiet onstage, IMHO. There are plenty of 1 to 5 watt amps available to get a great overdriven amp sound with low volume; there are a number of very usable guitar processors/effect units. Whatever works for the situation is what works.One drawback to IEMs I haven't heard mentioned is if the band varies from a set list. IEMs, even with ambience mics, can make quick communication between players somewhat problematical when calling audibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted February 13, 2012 Members Share Posted February 13, 2012 OT- Just found an example of the Martin PA my band used to use back in the nineties. Six days a week 48 to 50 weeks a year. Move the PA (w/24 lights and truss) in on Monday and move it all out again on a Saturday night after the gig. Three bass bins, double mid and two horns a side, with a Souindcraft board, a Peavey monitor board , 10 space FX rack, FOH Power Amp Rack, Monitor amp rack.and two Martin and four Community wedges. I just saw the bass player who owned the system... it was originally well over $30K, maybe closer to $40k. Marko, maybe you want to buy it, I'm sure shipping wouldn't be much http://www.martin-audio.com/archivedproducts/datasheets/ModularPAdatasheet.pdf With well-tweaked DSP and some good amps, I'll bet that rig could be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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