Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 If there are no reflective contributions AND the listener is doub;e the distance from the SOURCE, the SPL will indeed be -6dB at the second listeners position. I am not discussing distance from the source, just relative distance between points in the audience plane. IF a speaker were suspended at 15' above a stage and aimed at the furthest listener at, say 20' to make it easy, the person 10' away from the stage is actually only about 7' different in distance compared to the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 I am not discussing distance from the source, just relative distance between points in the audience plane. IF a speaker were suspended at 15' above a stage and aimed at the furthest listener at, say 20' to make it easy, the person 10' away from the stage is actually only about 7' different in distance compared to the speaker. might want to recheck that. if you are going to get all fancy and triangulate then use pythagorean theorem, audience members are the hypotenus. aint going to be 7' difference in your example. we are not as stupid as you seem to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Myth: Buy any cheap speaker cab and replace the speaker components with high end components---> you've got yourself a high end speaker cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Myth: Buy any cheap speaker cab and replace the speaker components with high end components---> you've got yourself a high end speaker cabinet. Bingo, we have a winner (or weiner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted March 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 myth: Changing to a better Mic will make you a better singer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 myth: Changing to a better Mic will make you a better singer. might make you sound like a better singer. not so far off imho real myth: double bussing sounds more phat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 stupid myth: various different mic pres found in sub $2k consoles radically affect the quality of sound of said consoles. absurd myth: a good mic pre will radically alter and affect the tone of the signal. when i hear someone talk about various console mic pres having an affect on sound quality i automatically flag them as an idiot. rarely do they pull them themselves out of this category. if a rackmount unit has a parametric eq section on it, a dirty section to it and a mic input it is not a mic pre. it is a parametric eq with a dirty section and a mic pre input. can different mic pres alter tone quality? yes in extreme cases (custom urie modded $20k preamp vs radio shack $2 preamp will sound different). also mismatche input loads or just plain wrong hookups. NO in sub $2k consoles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Bingo, we have a winner (or weiner)Depends on the time of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 stupid myth: various different mic pres found in sub $2k consoles radically affect the quality of sound of said consoles. Have to agree with you. I have used a lot of consoles over almost 50 years of playing, from a Univox in the 60's to ML5000s and Soundcraft Series 5 lately. The only time I had my ears perk up and say "woah!" was the first time I plugged in a Langevin CR-3A mic into a Langevin Dual Channel preamp with good headphones. However that preamp and mic will buy you a 24 channel SL or a fully decked out 01v96. I don't think it is a fair fight, but there is a difference once you get to play with "big boy" toys. You just don't see that difference in anything until you start to hit that magic $1K per channel mark. By the time you have 24 channel boards that cost $24 I better be hearing a difference of some kind (other than the lack of coins jingling in my pockets....) Obviously only a ballpark, but most any high quality preamp will cost what most of our consoles cost, or more. I had to sell it, because it was so different from the rest of my gear it was obvious I could not make effective use of it, and I only got it as part of a trade for live sound gear, but I could hear a distinct difference in quality. My goal is to some day have a console where I can say that about every channel it has....I see H3000s coming down in price, if I only had 4 other guys to help me move it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Different console's pre's (or gain staging to the A/D's) do have different clipping behavior. From what I remember the Yamaha 01V and (early ?) Mackie pre's sound like arse when "pushed" and the MixWiz and the Phonic Summit pre's soft clip in a "musical" way. But if you keep the channel clip lights from flashing they do sound the same so above the beginner level that doesn't matter unless you're clipping it on purpose a la Dave Rat ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Different console's pre's (or gain staging to the A/D's) do have different clipping behavior. From what I remember the Yamaha 01V and (early ?) Mackie pre's sound like arse when "pushed" and the MixWiz and the Phonic Summit pre's soft clip in a "musical" way. But if you keep the channel clip lights from flashing they do sound the same so above the beginner level that doesn't matter unless you're clipping it on purpose a la Dave Rat ... but, but, but (myth) mackies have more headroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Issues, yes ... but you still have equal direct sound. As you add distance that ratio slants more towards the reflected sound and away from direct, hence intelligibility continues to get worse. Take a look at the chart I posted the link to in post #120 Guess I should have read that before I commented. It has been MANY years since my accoustics classes.I do take slight issue with that link though. I believe the author is refering to speech intelligability. Reflected speech is completely unintelligable. However, music is far more complex and "uncorrellated" than speech (by its nature, our brains process speech very differently than it does music. The brain is better at "reassembing" music than speech as it is more random to begin with). As a result, reflected music is still perceived and interprutted somewhat more accurately. Therefore, speech becomes less intelligable as the direct source dimminishes relative the reflected, but music becomes less as more and more disruptive sources begin to equal the direct source.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 but, but, but (myth) mackies have more headroomOne of the main differences between the early and later 1604's is the headroom though the various gain stages. The 12 XLR and first 16 XLR models in particular had very little - the excellent manual did a good job of telling you that any flashing of the clip lights at all was bad unlike most (all?) other consoles made up until that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 My goal is to some day have a console where I can say that about every channel it has....I see H3000s coming down in price, if I only had 4 other guys to help me move it!!! This is really tempting: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Midas-Heritiage-3000-Mixing-Console-Mixer-Works-Perfectly-/230753503402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b9fb08aa I'll help talk you out of it, if you'll do the same for me. I'm having difficulties coming up with reasons to talk myself out of it... "big and heavy" doesn't much bother me... well... it does, but figuring out eloquent ways to deal with big and heavy is 1/2 the fun as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 might want to recheck that. if you are going to get all fancy and triangulate then use pythagorean theorem, audience members are the hypotenus. aint going to be 7' difference in your example.we are not as stupid as you seem to believe. Wow, you seem really defensive; haven't meant to make you think that. My math is correct, so I really don't know what to say to you: 15^2 + 20^2 = 25^2 15^2 + 10^2 = ~18^2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 To W.M. Hellinger:Let me know if you're interested in an Amek Recall RN then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Wow, you seem really defensive; haven't meant to make you think that. My math is correct, so I really don't know what to say to you: 15^2 + 20^2 = 25^2 15^2 + 10^2 = ~18^2 i'm not defensive. you are not thinking things through is all. also, are your audiences ears on their feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is really tempting:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Midas-Heritiage-3000-Mixing-Console-Mixer-Works-Perfectly-/230753503402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b9fb08aaI'll help talk you out of it, if you'll do the same for me. I'm having difficulties coming up with reasons to talk myself out of it... "big and heavy" doesn't much bother me... well... it does, but figuring out eloquent ways to deal with big and heavy is 1/2 the fun as far as I'm concerned. i'll try; "you wont have the challenge of making your XXXX mixer sound decent. also scrunts will ask what kind of venice is that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 To W.M. Hellinger: Let me know if you're interested in an Amek Recall RN then! ugh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 i'm not defensive. you are not thinking things through is all.also, are your audiences ears on their feet? Will you help me think this out? You can consider the audience plane to be 15' below the speaker. In the same example, at 4 kHz with a 40 degree dispersion, what are the approximate levels at each point 10 and 20' back from the stage, (outdoors) respectively? Speaker is 110 dB at 1' on axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 ugh!!! You can't tell me you wouldn't want one! Come on, Rupert Neve designed the preamps and EQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 ugh!!! Yeah, I'd say the $16K Midas looks a tad more attractive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Come on, Rupert Neve designed the preamps and EQ! Didn't Rupert part ways with Amek because they were going "too digital"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah, I'd say the $16K Midas looks a tad more attractive You're not a glutton for punishment, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted March 1, 2012 Members Share Posted March 1, 2012 Didn't Rupert part ways with Amek because they were going "too digital"? You know, I don't know. I hadn't heard that. I listened to an interview with him once and he's kind of bounced around with different affiliations after his original "Neve" company. He 'believes' in extended FR, so maybe you're right. The Amek Recall RN has 'virtual' inserts for computer controlled dynamics on each channel and it can 'remember' fader positions just like the Studio Live! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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