Members jamesp Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 ^ JT needs to stick to songwriting. I've always thought his best work was as a session player or guest artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've always thought his best work was as a session player or guest artist. He does use a double negative in the song I posted ... I know DeepEnd doesn't like that pokie guy smilie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think the most time-enduring album he ever played on will be Blue. His playing and harmonies were incredible on it, too. Agree to disagree. You're free to be wrong-headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I think the most time-enduring album he ever played on will be Blue. His playing and harmonies were incredible on it, too. Agree to disagree. You're free to be wrong-headed. I think you mean JT is "wrong-headed" ... I'm just going off what he said in part. Guess we can't have a lively debate without egos being a factor. Ever notice when you tune it reads differently depending on how hard you pick the string? The harder you pick the sharper it reads ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 The mobile version of this software ate my smiley, Ed. I was trying to be little feisty, maybe.. I have noticed that a note will go pitchy if I pick it too hard, yes. So I try not to pick too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well I guess your qualified to have an opinion not sure what your point is though other than talking down JT ... Does the physicist in you think a string's pitch will remain unchanged when it's stretched? JT is okay. I just don't arrange myself around other people. I take from them what I think they're offering then leave them to suffer the prying scrutiny of their fans. Said another way, they won't make any money on me. And, yes, increases in string tension and pitch are directly proportional, though I'd hope that wouldn't need a physicist's ruling in a guitar forum. I can bash JT in many ways from a musical perspective. That would be almost as pointless as bashing him to piss you off, though. Either would be a gross misuse of opinion and highly uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 . . . Ever notice when you tune it reads differently depending on how hard you pick the string? The harder you pick the sharper it reads ... That subject came up a while back over in Electric Guitars. Someone suggested that a proper setup could compensate for it, which it can't. But yeah, I guess you need to tune by plucking as hard as you're going to play. I barely pluck the string when I'm tuning but I normally don't strum hard so I figure I don't have worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 The mobile version of this software ate my smiley, Ed. I was trying to be little feisty, maybe.. I have noticed that a note will go pitchy if I pick it too hard, yes. So I try not to. . No worries I wasn't upset or thought you were either. Humor me though tune your guitar by fretting the string and tuning an A on the 6th string 5th fret, D 5th string 5 fret, G 4th string 5th fret, B 3rd string 4th fret, E 2nd string 5th fret, low a 1st string 5th fret then see what it reads when you check the tuning with open strings as normal. It will read a little flat (if you pluck each string with the same pressure) I know intonation will be cited as the cause of this but I believe when you tune this way you'll find that the fretted notes are in tune while the open strings are flat. Also play some to see if you don't like his method of tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Pressing a string to make hard contact with the board can bring in an unwanted aspect. If the pressure applied delivers the slightest bit of side deflection before the string contacts the board, the note will go sharp. If no side deflection is effected the string may not go sharp. People assume they're fretting the string 90 degrees to the board when they probably aren't. I watch people play and see so many instances of unconsciously applied side deflection its no wonder people claim their guitars have poor intonation. It's actually poor technique at fault. You can watch and see the fretted strings move towards one of the adjacent strings. It's usually towards the upper string. The fingers don't necessarily move the strings along their shortest path to the board. The higher the action, the more pronounced this deviation may be. I keep my action low, I use fingernails and thumb pick and a lighter attack. That's why I chose the guitar I have. It has great volume with a light attack and my fretting deflection is low enough to lessen my potential for side deflection before contacting the board. This changes as the fretting hand moves up and down the neck with wrist angle changes effecting finger angle changes relative to the strings. I can carefully apply pressure to my strings at the 12 fret and tune them to their proper pitch. Then I play them open and see them all about a cent's worth out of tune. That's been the way of it since I've owned the guitar and I use D'Addario EJ16s. To split the difference, I tune the guitar at the 7th fret. So, how does one practice string fretting accuracy? Good question and I don't know the answer. I just try to be careful. The point I'm making is intonation is a function of careful string fretting as much as it is having a good tuner, a good set-up and acceptable string quality. It's the imperfect physicist in me making imperfect mental notes of the imperfect world at large imperfectly playing imperfect instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Ed, I gave it a try last night and I dunno... To my ears the guitar wasn't any more in tune than when tuning the open strings. It also felt like I needed a third hand to get the job done. I did find that I needed to press the string down a little harder than usual to get a clear signal to my tuner, and according to my tuner my open strings weren't flat afterward. I'll try it a couple more times and try to keep an open mind, but it kinda seems like a lot of work for a benefit that I can't hear. And as I've bragged-on before, my ears test in the high percentages for pitch perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Thanks I hear you about the third hand I only suggested that because most tuners don't display the actual cent number so that may be of some difference or maybe it's like idunno is saying has more to do with the imperfections of the guitar and the amount the user's deflects when fretting... Sorry for the hijack ...back to your regularly scheduled program. btw the tuner is a Seiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I was using a StroboFlip, fwiw. The obvious question would be why not tune with a capo on the fifth fret? Why that woulldn't work gets into the point idunno was making about finger placement. Anyway, yeah, messing with chords is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 That would work and I know you know this except for the 3rd string tuned on the fourth fret but I think JT is also adjusting cents in a more specific way than that, as he has perfected over the years. He reasons the bass strings tend to ring more sharp along with other things he addresses the B string which is disproportionately sharper, something I and a few others have cited when tuning to compensate for that. Anyway watch the video on page 1 of this thread if you haven't already. He tunes the high e -3 cents, B -6, G -4, D -8, A -10, E -12 cents if your tuner reads in cents like mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I was talking to our piano tuner one time and he mentioned that each piano model has it's own tuning specs , The tuning is slightly altered to suit the characteristics of the piano. Maybe there is something to what JT says, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 Ed, I gave it a try last night and I dunno... To my ears the guitar wasn't any more in tune than when tuning the open strings. It also felt like I needed a third hand to get the job done. I did find that I needed to press the string down a little harder than usual to get a clear signal to my tuner, and according to my tuner my open strings weren't flat afterward. I'll try it a couple more times and try to keep an open mind, but it kinda seems like a lot of work for a benefit that I can't hear. And as I've bragged-on before, my ears test in the high percentages for pitch perception. Ears. Throw them out the window. For this experiment we're using strictly my tuner feedback. Your guitar? No. My guitar is the only one I'm sampling here. Your pressing of the string? No. My...you get the idea. Everything is set to relative mode here and my experience (above) is just that under the ONLY category. You are under OTHER. It's different per person per guitar per etc. My point is side deflection versus straight deflection may be the culprit behind the idea of "pulling sharp" notes and not simply fretting the strings hard. If I fret my strings hard at the 12th fret and tune them to that, it is what it is open. In my case, my guitar is about 1/2 to 1 cent short of full tune. So, I run it closer by tuning midway up the board at a spot that I tend to travel either side of when I play. JT will tell you to set everything shy at open tuning as a general rule to get your guitar sounding right to you. BIG assumption but, okay, he's JT so his credibility is supposed to be a safe bet. He is telling you that your ears will be pleased with the results. Evidently JT maintains a similar claim on good ear pitch perception. He attributes it to me and everyone else as well. I have a hard time understanding how he thinks my frequency-affecting tinnitus will be (temporarily?) abated by using his method of tuning. Obviously he's directing it to people with similar hearing to his. Nothing is the same with regard to you or me, if we need to volunteer to make a case for such distinctions, and that is the way of it. You think you have a certain pitch recognition and I will tell you I don't. Starting with that, there can be no further discussion between us on what sounds good, that makes sense, considering the tools going in. That's the underlying case I make for not offering help to anyone regarding FAQs about sound quality across the brand/model spectrum. I'd be making a JT proportion assumption about what I think you should like and therefore buy. When I openly cite that deficiency the fools-for-tools criticize such honesty as a lack of willingness to help. Another way to read that discussion: The forum slips one more earthward notch on the integrity totem to think it has the collective expertise to tell a person what sounds best for the dollar spent . JT worked out a method that works for everything in JT's world, then casts it out like a blanket over all guitar players. :p:p We are a wonderfully imaginative lot when it comes to making bold statements that we do not want people to perceive as waxing subjectivity on qualitatively subjective topics. We want purely objective perspectives rating our subjective opinions. But, otherwise the place wouldn't be needed and would disappear in the fact-stirred dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 I've known more than one piano tech who've contended that a piano can't be tuned at all. Not in any kind of "perfect" way at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 F# is 369.994 Hz. A Hz is one cycle per second. A second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom. We perceive the world from within our minds, but it doesn't follow that our minds *are* the world. Standards are established so that we can avoid navel gazing into the depths of solipsism. This sounds snarkier than I meant it to be. But you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister lives Posted November 24, 2014 Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 One of the coolest songs which uses the D chord variations Joe mentions in the opening post is "Blowing Free" by Wishbone Ash: And a couple other D chord shape variations moved around the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 jamesp, not snarky. Quite applicable, actually, if we modify the claim that "it doesn't follow that our minds *are* the world" to does. Every person who shares a common hero designs a different pedestal to place beneath him. It's a strange place where it's our differences that bind us more than our similarities bond us. The former is the exciting challenge to the immutable conventions of the latter. We joyfully come together for the fight and then blame syndromes when it ends and leaves us with our conventions once again. So, it does follow that our minds are our world. It has to. It's the mind that creates perception of the world, meaning, perception is the world. Thus spake the sobriety challenged conjuror of mindless things and images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted November 24, 2014 Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 Definitely more going on here than we perceive ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 One of the coolest songs which uses the D chord variations Joe mentions in the opening post is "Blowing Free" by Wishbone Ash: And a couple other D chord shape variations moved around the neck. Man, I forgot completely about these guys. Now see, there's a way to make music that doesn't cost a lot. WA proves it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted November 25, 2014 Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 guys, plz, don't pick too hard on each other i feel some life in the forum, thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 25, 2014 Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 25, 2014 Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 That "our" world isn't "the" world was kinda my point. Ed can call F# Gb in his world, but within the context of the key of D, anyone who understands music as a standard that exists in "the" world, can know with certainty that ("his" world notwithstanding,) he is a wrong liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 It's just that I got this really killer deal on this very old but still serviceable soapbox and... Life in the forum. Yea, I guess so. If we have to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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