opinions on foot tapping

[1001gear]

If you just 'birdbrain' through syncopations, even - maybe especially, easy ones, there's a chance you can get crossed up and start dropping those trailing fractions. Tapping your foot is supposed to put the actual beat in your rhythm stream. You always know where the ups and downs are.

[RockViolin]

My classical instructor emphasized tapping your foot! Because of the 'stance' with your left foot (for righties) on a foot-stool, it won't be as pronounced but it is still a good practice even in this. Some of the timings in classical pieces get very complicated requiring that you are maintaining a pulse somehow.

Coming from an extensive classical background.

1000's of very, very good classical musicians play everything from the easy to the extremely complex without tapping their foot. In ensembles especially, a player tapping their foot is going to be shackled to whatever their ding dong foot is doing and will not be receptive to the flux of those also playing, or to group efforts to execute tempo variations in the music. Large ensembles, of course, usually have conductors. Conductors that frown on foot tappers.

The foot doesn't magically get set in motion and keep a steady pulse like some sort of pendulum. It's steadiness is entirely subject to perception. So, the pulse should be internal. If that's not possible, for practice it's best to turn it over to a metronome.

[stomias]

There's nothing wrong with tapping your foot. If it helps you then do it. But the idea that you NEED to do it to have decent time makes no sense to me. There's an article Bobby Broom wrote (couldn't find it) in which he insists on tapping, and I couldn't agree less.

 

 

 

 

Bobby Broom is a musical genius and you would do well to heed his advice.

[jeremy_green]

If you just 'birdbrain' through syncopations, even - maybe especially, easy ones, there's a chance you can get crossed up and start dropping those trailing fractions. Tapping your foot is supposed to put the actual beat in your rhythm stream. You always know where the ups and downs are.

This is what i find as well, when I tap my foot its like it nails the part into that time. It becomes conscious instead of unconscious and seems more stable and pro.

Many of the top notch session players I have played with all consciously count ... basically all the time. I have asked them and they all basically do. So that is something I have been working toward.

It's not for everybody I guess and you can get by without working on it but this is one of those little "secrets" it took me YEARS to discover. This is the stuff people are always fishing around here for. Usually the best kept "secrets" are the most simple and boring. None of that makes them less true.

Being "in the pocket" is IMO the difference between a really good player and a great player. It is also one of the least talked about aspects of playing. Everybody is so busy trying to learn new and exciting scales and modes that this goes totally under the radar.

Timing is TRULY EVERYTHING. I dont care how fast you are or how nice your phrases are - if your notes dont sit soundly in the pocket they sound unconvincing.

Likely someone will disagree, but that's my view

[Phlat Phive]

This is what i find as well, when I tap my foot its like it nails the part into that time. It becomes conscious instead of unconscious and seems more stable and pro. Many of the top notch session players I have played with all consciously count ... basically all the time. I have asked them and they all basically do. So that is something I have been working toward. It's not for everybody I guess and you can get by without working on it but this is one of those little "secrets" it took me YEARS to discover. This is the stuff people are always fishing around here for. Usually the best kept "secrets" are the most simple and boring. None of that makes them less true. Being "in the pocket" is IMO the difference between a really good player and a great player. It is also one of the least talked about aspects of playing . Everybody is so busy trying to learn new and exciting scales and modes that this goes totally under the radar. Timing is TRULY EVERYTHING. I dont care how fast you are or how nice your phrases are - if your notes dont sit soundly in the pocket they sound unconvincing. Likely someone will disagree, but that's my view

You are absolutely 100% correct.

[RockViolin]

This is what i find as well, when I tap my foot its like it nails the part into that time. It becomes conscious instead of unconscious and seems more stable and pro. Many of the top notch session players I have played with all consciously count ... basically all the time. I have asked them and they all basically do. So that is something I have been working toward. It's not for everybody I guess and you can get by without working on it but this is one of those little "secrets" it took me YEARS to discover. This is the stuff people are always fishing around here for. Usually the best kept "secrets" are the most simple and boring. None of that makes them less true. Being "in the pocket" is IMO the difference between a really good player and a great player. It is also one of the least talked about aspects of playing . Everybody is so busy trying to learn new and exciting scales and modes that this goes totally under the radar. Timing is TRULY EVERYTHING. I dont care how fast you are or how nice your phrases are - if your notes dont sit soundly in the pocket they sound unconvincing. Likely someone will disagree, but that's my view

Meh, 90% correct. All that can be done without the ball and chain of having to tap your foot.

[Kuroyume]

Coming from an extensive classical background. 1000's of very, very good classical musicians play everything from the easy to the extremely complex without tapping their foot. In ensembles especially, a player tapping their foot is going to be shackled to whatever their ding dong foot is doing and will not be receptive to the flux of those also playing, or to group efforts to execute tempo variations in the music. Large ensembles, of course, usually have conductors. Conductors that frown on foot tappers. The foot doesn't magically get set in motion and keep a steady pulse like some sort of pendulum. It's steadiness is entirely subject to perception. So, the pulse should be internal. If that's not possible, for practice it's best to turn it over to a metronome.

While I agree to an extent, you haven't followed everything that I said, have you? Yes, when you have an external rhythmic stimulus (a conductor, drums, other musicians) this can help guide without the foot tapping. And a metronome whenever you need it. But when there is no external stimulus, foot tapping can be useful. It, in itself, isn't a time-keeper. It is your internal timing put into semi-conscious muscle action. Muscle actions and your brain can do some incredible things with timing. Otherwise, how do we play music at all? Just ask your heart...

[deforce75]

Meh, 90% correct. All that can be done without the ball and chain of having to tap your foot.

As a teacher I always encourage my students to tap their foot. It is to demonstrate to me that they can feel the beat independently, and play their phrases in relation to the beat (not the other way round). I find those students who never tap their foot, but get the phrasing right, have difficulty adjusting to tempo changes and become sloppy when increasing speed.

In real performance situations however, I agree with you that tapping your foot is not always appropriate. But the point is that you are ABLE TO tap your foot when learning and/or practising. Then you demonstrate that you are able to feel the beat independently while you are playing.

[RockViolin]

While I agree to an extent, you haven't followed everything that I said, have you? Yes, when you have an external rhythmic stimulus (a conductor, drums, other musicians) this can help guide without the foot tapping. And a metronome whenever you need it. But when there is no external stimulus, foot tapping can be useful. It, in itself, isn't a time-keeper. It is your internal timing put into semi-conscious muscle action. Muscle actions and your brain can do some incredible things with timing. Otherwise, how do we play music at all? Just ask your heart...

I've read your posts in this thread. And I speak from my heart. I can tell you what I know. I've played with and watched many incredible musicians. I can't recall one that was a foot tapper. They have all managed to do it without tapping. I remember 1 or 2 students in school that were doing it during orchestra rehearsal and they were asked by the conductor to stop. I can tell you that in professional orchestras and quartets, trios etc. it's not well thought of and is a sign of someone that is NOT a PRO.
Playing solo is not an automatic foot tapping situation either. I've seen solo violinists stomp, kick, jump, click heels, snort, growl, groan, etc. and I've been known to do it myself (except for the heels bit). NOBODY taps away the beat of the measure with their foot. It's just simply unneccessary and not done.

Muscle actions and your brain can do incredible things with timing? I would say that's the problem, not the cure.

[RockViolin]

As a teacher I always encourage my students to tap their foot. It is to demonstrate to me that they can feel the beat independently, and play their phrases in relation to the beat (not the other way round). I find those students who never tap their foot, but get the phrasing right, have difficulty adjusting to tempo changes and become sloppy when increasing speed. In real performance situations however, I agree with you that tapping your foot is not always appropriate. But the point is that you are ABLE TO tap your foot when learning and/or practising. Then you demonstrate that you are able to feel the beat independently while you are playing.

I've had an occassional beginner/intermediate student that taps their foot. Invariably, the steadiness of their tapping is completely at the mercy of their ability to navigate the difficulties at hand. As it gets harder, more complex, the foot has more distance between beats, or crowds a few. No where near an assist in keeping a steady tempo. Just a distraction. The playing by itself is plenty of demonstration of feeling the beat. Why the need of some extraneous demonstration? Much better and far more beneficial to just use a metronome....occassionally!

You say you always encourage students to tap their foot? I'm sorry, deforce 75, but I have to roll out this guy. Everybody MUST use training wheels, whether they need them or not?

Yet you say that for most performance situations tapping the foot is not always appropriate.

I believe one should always practice as one will perform, rather than waste time and effort taking up a physical crutch which at some point must be discarded.

[1001gear]

Coming from an extensive classical background. 1000's of very, very good classical musicians play everything from the easy to the extremely complex without tapping their foot. In ensembles especially, a player tapping their foot is going to be shackled to whatever their ding dong foot is doing and will not be receptive to the flux of those also playing, or to group efforts to execute tempo variations in the music. Large ensembles, of course, usually have conductors. Conductors that frown on foot tappers. The foot doesn't magically get set in motion and keep a steady pulse like some sort of pendulum. It's steadiness is entirely subject to perception. So, the pulse should be internal. If that's not possible, for practice it's best to turn it over to a metronome.

You're probably just a frustrated soloist. (kidding) Point, classical string melodies will often have nothing to do with strict meter. Nuance and detail have to appear at the right, nearly nano-moment or the illusion will collapse into 'some guy with a violin'. The tapping thing is more rudimentary and shouldn't be ommited from a curriculum. Even for soloists.

[deforce75]

I've had an occassional beginner/intermediate student that taps their foot. Invariably, the steadiness of their tapping is completely at the mercy of their ability to navigate the difficulties at hand. As it gets harder, more complex, the foot has more distance between beats, or crowds a few. No where near an assist in keeping a steady tempo. Just a distraction. The playing by itself is plenty of demonstration of feeling the beat. Why the need of some extraneous demonstration? Much better and far more beneficial to just use a metronome....occassionally! You say you always encourage students to tap their foot? I'm sorry, deforce 75, but I have to roll out this guy. Everybody MUST use training wheels, whether they need them or not? Yet you say that for most performance situations tapping the foot is not always appropriate. I believe one should always practice as one will perform, rather than waste time and effort taking up a physical crutch which at some point must be discarded.

Can you tap your foot while you play? I am not asking whether you do, I am asking if you can.

[RockViolin]

You're probably just a frustrated soloist. (kidding) Point, classical string melodies will often have nothing to do with strict meter. Nuance and detail have to appear at the right, nearly nano-moment or the illusion will collapse into 'some guy with a violin'. The tapping thing is more rudimentary and shouldn't be ommited from a curriculum. Even for soloists.

Nah. Just frustrated.

I think you'll find that in music schools all across the land tapping your foot while you play your instrument is neither taught nor encouraged. Maybe even in guitar departments.

Nuance and detail have to appear at the right, nearly nano-moment? Whaddaya know? That sounds a lot like "the pocket".

Have you ever heard Mozart's overture to "The Marriage of Figaro" ?

[RockViolin]

Can you tap your foot while you play? I am not asking whether you do, I am asking if you can.

 

 

Yeah, I can. It's not like I'm gonna post a vid of me doing it to prove it to ya.

I can also run across the stage, do shots, do a little dance, whatever. I somehow managed to have a successful career in music without tapping my foot.

 

Maybe ask Jeff Gordon if he can glance at his speedometer every 1.5 seconds while he's going around the track. Yeah, he probably can. That doesn't mean that's the way to do it.

[Terje]

I have a question about tapping one's foot to keep time with the beat. I have had one guitar instructor said I should tap my foot with the beat and have one that said I should not. Any opinions? I can see the merits of both but it is hard for me not to tap my foot.

 

 

If it's hard for you to tap your foot then skip it. The only two reason to do it that I can think of are either that you can't help it, that it's automatic and it's hard for you not to tap your foot, or that it is somehow helping you polay better. Otherwise I'd advice against it because most of us don't tap as in time as we think. My foot is very often speeding up. It's not a great help for the rest in the band. Also, not moving your body can help you focus on your fingers.

 

Whether you tap or not, one very important thing to remember about time is that it keeps going whether you tap or not, whether you play or not, whether you follow it or not. Time is there whether you play or not. You're not repsonsible for keeping it, you just need to follow along, relax and follow along.

 

Another thought is that if you're playing jazz, blues or rock then you are playing music that people are sortg of supposed to dance to and if you don't feel an urge to move with the music too when you're playing you're probably doing it all wrong!

 

Anyway, I tap my foot. I'm not sure if it helps or not but it feels right and it's hard for me not to so I do it but try to keep it as discrete as possible not to disturb the others. Don't tap.

[RockViolin]

If it's hard for you to tap your foot then skip it. The only two reason to do it that I can think of are either that you can't help it, that it's automatic and it's hard for you not to tap your foot, or that it is somehow helping you polay better. Otherwise I'd advice against it because most of us don't tap as in time as we think. My foot is very often speeding up. It's not a great help for the rest in the band. Also, not moving your body can help you focus on your fingers. Whether you tap or not, one very important thing to remember about time is that it keeps going whether you tap or not, whether you play or not, whether you follow it or not. Time is there whether you play or not. You're not repsonsible for keeping it, you just need to follow along, relax and follow along. Another thought is that if you're playing jazz, blues or rock then you are playing music that people are sortg of supposed to dance to and if you don't feel an urge to move with the music too when you're playing you're probably doing it all wrong! Anyway, I tap my foot. I'm not sure if it helps or not but it feels right and it's hard for me not to so I do it but try to keep it as discrete as possible not to disturb the others. Don't tap.

 

 

Great points! If it's a groove and yer feets just can't help themselves, that's different.

[1001gear]

Nah. Just frustrated. I think you'll find that in music schools all across the land tapping your foot while you play your instrument is neither taught nor encouraged. Maybe even in guitar departments. Nuance and detail have to appear at the right, nearly nano-moment? Whaddaya know? That sounds a lot like "the pocket". Have you ever heard Mozart's overture to "The Marriage of Figaro" ?

I have probably ignored Figaro a couple times although I went through a period 20 or 30 years ago of assorted piano and symphonic music. Why?
Anyway I would think by the time people are thriving in a conservatory they'd be well into the finer points of performance. Still, nothing like a little footwork to stabilize an unfamiliar rhythm.

[RockViolin]

I have probably ignored Figaro a couple times although I went through a period 20 or 30 years ago of assorted piano and symphonic music. Why? Anyway I would think by the time people are thriving in a conservatory they'd be well into the finer points of performance. Still, nothing like a little footwork to stabilize an unfamiliar rhythm.

The overture is a good example of a driving 4/4 that certainly has a pocket. A good orchestra can do it without a conductor. No foot schlogging either.

Actually, there was a rythmic training course at The North Carolina School of the Arts when I was there. Everyone had to pass out of it. Sightreading complex rythmns and speaking those rythmns with "da" or "ta". We were allowed to use a hand to tap the beat of the measure on a leg. Not at all easy, and a tough class. Did lots for my game! I managed to internalize the beat. Ultimately, I didn't have to tap on my leg to convince the instructor I knew what I was doing and pass.

I've said my piece, I guess.

To all. I'd be cautious with the one size fits all-ya gotta tap your foot to be in the pocket - and it looks more "PRO" approaches. Yikes!

[hshaitan]

Do whatever you want.

[Jasco]

Being "in the pocket" is IMO the difference between a really good player and a great player. It is also one of the least talked about aspects of playing . Everybody is so busy trying to learn new and exciting scales and modes that this goes totally under the radar. Timing is TRULY EVERYTHING. I dont care how fast you are or how nice your phrases are - if your notes dont sit soundly in the pocket they sound unconvincing.

Great post Jeremy.

[Jasco]

My opinion on foot tapping is that you should be able to play with and without it. And you should practice both ways, as there are specific things you will learn each way.


Not trying to start a fight here but...

With regards to the classical music aspect brought up in this thread, it's my experience that classical musicians in general have a weakness of playing and grooving in time with a click as compared to other types of musicians. I'm guessing this is because of the less percussive nature of much of their repertoire.

Therefore, I think the advice against foot tapping, while possibly appropriate for musicians playing in an orchestral setting, may not be applicable to musicians playing blues/rock/jazz/funk in a small combo setting.

[Virgman]

I've never been a foot tapper.

 

But it seems like a good idea.

[RockViolin]

My opinion on foot tapping is that you should be able to play with and without it. And you should practice both ways, as there are specific things you will learn each way. Not trying to start a fight here but... With regards to the classical music aspect brought up in this thread, it's my experience that classical musicians in general have a weakness of playing and grooving in time with a click as compared to other types of musicians. I'm guessing this is because of the less percussive nature of much of their repertoire.

"Just when you think you're out..."

There is nothing a tapping foot will teach you that a plain old metronome won't teach you better.

Also, your average classical musician probably spends ten/twenty times more time with a click (read metronome) than any other type of musician. It's stock and trade. But, they leave the metronome at home.

Still, you're not entirely wrong. Some pretty good classical players have had my electric violin under their neck. It was unbearable in some cases. I practically yanked it away from them.

[lectrician]

Pianists, some tapping, mostly holding and releasing.
Keyboardists not so much with the tapping.
Bough, brass, and reed players, no tapping.
Kit Drummers, ALWAYS Tap their foot. It's an art form to them. They tap 2.
Guitarists, usually have a tap.
Violinists, see bough players.

This is what I learned from this thread.

[KidAircrash]

I had a jazz instructor at band camp who used to alternate tapping both feet like (left right left right) and he KILLED on saxophone. He was a great teacher and was super interesting.