Taking music to the next level

[u6crash]

In the last year I've been making a lot of changes. I feel like I'm getting to a point in my life where I've got to choose a definitive direction or be stuck doing something I don't want. Anyway, if I'm not careful I'm going to end up being one of those guys that used to play guitars. The best alternative seems to be to get more serious about it.

 

One of the things on my bucket list is to write and record a full length album. I don't care if I have to pay out of my pocket to record 50 copies that go to friends and family, but I want it to be good and I'm going to need to play (and write) better first.

 

There are a whole lot of resources for improving on the internet (this forum and elsewhere), but I'm starting to feel like I could really benefit from the structure of regular lessons. If I'm paying someone weekly to teach me, I'll be more likely to stick to a practice schedule, sad as that may be.

 

What should I look for in a guitar teacher? What questions should I ask and what price should I expect to pay? These are some of the things I'd like to learn/improve upon over time:

 

Identifying key signatures

Identifying time signatures

Advanced improvising

Improved finger picking

Improved rhythm and lead

 

My preferred style is generally rock in the blues, folk, and grunge vein, though I'm open to trying out other genres if it makes me better.

 

Any suggestions and direction you guys can give me would be most appreciated.

[Mark Wein]

I teach a ton of adults, especially guys who have played for a while that want to actually make a significant leap in their playing or need to do it for a specific gig.

 

Most of those guys get an immediate benefit from working on understanding how time works and learning a structured way to play it on the instrument both for rhythm guitar and single note playing. This is an area that most of us skip over if we are self taught or have taken lessons with a teacher who only shows you songs. Once we understand the "theoretical" part of it then applying it to the instrument and cleaning up technique so that we can actually play music consistently in time and with a good feel is the next part. I'll usually find musical examples that illustrate and work these ideas.

 

Once we get to playing the guitar in time then we start working on the other things like theory, improve (I usually teach them hand-in-hand), composition and stylistic elements.

 

Ultimately if you take lessons the teacher needs to have a roadmap, even if its only a loose one and you need to be getting useful information from him. Learning to play modes or improvising before you can play rhythm guitar or understand what a major scale is are red flags. SO is working on some crazy techniques that are not relevant to how you play or are too advanced for where you are in your development as a play.

 

I'm going to post a link to a thread that one of my webcam students has been writing as a "diary" of his lessons: http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/showthread.php?19302-An-Old-Guy-s-Guitar-Lesson-Journey-and-Beyond....

 

It might be a useful read at this point.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of input on this but these have been my experiences both as a music teacher for 20 years and a player for even longer.

[u6crash]

Thanks for the input. I'm not too worried about the time signature thing, but know my rhythm playing needs improvement. I also played trumpet for 9 years in school and can read sheet music, so all that helps a little. I'm willing to tackle whatever basics are necessary. The place I'm looking at has teachers that studied at Berklee College of Music and lessons are $19/half hour. The one thing that I like is that most also teach voice, which I would hope to incorporate a little with the guitar.

[Mark Wein]

Thanks for the input. I'm not too worried about the time signature thing, but know my rhythm playing needs improvement. I also played trumpet for 9 years in school and can read sheet music, so all that helps a little. I'm willing to tackle whatever basics are necessary. The place I'm looking at has teachers that studied at Berklee College of Music and lessons are $19/half hour. The one thing that I like is that most also teach voice, which I would hope to incorporate a little with the guitar.

 

Thats a really good rate right there.

 

Try to do all of your rhythm work first with a metronome, then without (but record it so you can hear what you sound like) and then also find some music to play with that has a good repetitive rhythm part. One book that I use as a "Rhythm Guitar Method" for all of my students is this one:

 

 

Even if you aren't into funk music as a style the way he teaches basic 16th note mechanics and the chord voicings that he uses are worth for for all sorts of reasons regardless of your chosen style of music. You'll also find yourself being able to control the instrument better in terms of muting and picking accuracy too.

[3shiftgtr]

Anyway, if I'm not careful I'm going to end up being one of those guys that used to play guitars.

 

 

This is the line that bothers me.

 

Mark is a killer teacher and everything he said is gold, but I'm sensing something else at play. What's happening that you feel the need to "do something" or else you are out? Is it just a lack of musical inspiration? Life inspiration? A lack of control over your musical voice? Intimidation at the size of the "musical mountain" that lies in front of you? Going thru a tough "life segment"?

 

 

In the last year I've been making a lot of changes. I feel like I'm getting to a point in my life where I've got to choose a definitive direction or be stuck doing something I don't want.

 

 

Is this musically or with life in general?

 

 

The best alternative seems to be to get more serious about it.

 

 

If you haven't thought this out, at least a little, re dedication could actually prove to have a negative effect.

 

 

One of the things on my bucket list is to write and record a full length album. I don't care if I have to pay out of my pocket to record 50 copies that go to friends and family, but I want it to be good and I'm going to need to play (and write) better first.

 

 

Well, let's put the fix on this idea. You will always need to play and write better. Every album you will ever do will need to be better. You might achieve control over your artistic voice, but you will STILL find things to improve on. Ever wonder why when an artist releases a disc, they say it is the greatest thing they have done yet, yet when they release the next album, they talk about the stuff they didn't like with the last one, and what they were shooting for with the new one? And they yap about how happy they are with it. And the cycle continues.

 

Face it. You'll have to write several albums, then look back and go "yeah, I kinda still like that one." Discs are basically musical snapshots of artistic thought in any given point in time. That is why the best artists are always on to the next thing......don't fixate on "when I'm ready"....cuz you never will be....the disc will be a snapshot of where you are....

[jeremy_green]

Well, let's put the fix on this idea. You will always need to play and write better. Every album you will ever do will need to be better. You might achieve control over your artistic voice, but you will STILL find things to improve on. Ever wonder why when an artist releases a disc, they say it is the greatest thing they have done yet, yet when they release the next album, they talk about the stuff they didn't like with the last one, and what they were shooting for with the new one? And they yap about how happy they are with it. And the cycle continues. Face it. You'll have to write several albums, then look back and go "yeah, I kinda still like that one." Discs are basically musical snapshots of artistic thought in any given point in time. That is why the best artists are always on to the next thing......don't fixate on "when I'm ready"....cuz you never will be....the disc will be a snapshot of where you are....

 

 

This is golden, damn well said.

[TrickyBoy]

Thanks for the input. I'm not too worried about the time signature thing, but know my rhythm playing needs improvement. I also played trumpet for 9 years in school and can read sheet music, so all that helps a little. I'm willing to tackle whatever basics are necessary. The place I'm looking at has teachers that studied at Berklee College of Music and lessons are $19/half hour. The one thing that I like is that most also teach voice, which I would hope to incorporate a little with the guitar.

 

 

My one word of caution is don't get all wrapped up in degrees, etc. The most important thing IMO is the teacher's ability to listen to what YOU want to achieve and then help you get there. Find someone who takes the time to listen to and truly understand your goals and then works with you to develop a roadmap to get there.

[TrickyBoy]

You know that 3ShiftGtr guy makes some valid points from time to time :poke:

[jeremy_green]

To the OP - To paraphrase what I liked about 3shift's post - dont get to caught up in what you know. Songwriting is NOT only for those with training. A 6 year old can grab a guitar and write a song. It's YOUR song. Nobody does THAT better. Many people feel they "aren't ready" to write music. This is ridiculous.

 

No matter where your teaching takes you understand this - it is never too early to begin working on your album. Just start with one chord or one lyric and keep going. It likely wont be your best work - but so what? The next one will be better.

[mosiddiqi]

Well, let's put the fix on this idea. You will always need to play and write better. Every album you will ever do will need to be better. You might achieve control over your artistic voice, but you will STILL find things to improve on. Ever wonder why when an artist releases a disc, they say it is the greatest thing they have done yet, yet when they release the next album, they talk about the stuff they didn't like with the last one, and what they were shooting for with the new one? And they yap about how happy they are with it. And the cycle continues. Face it. You'll have to write several albums, then look back and go "yeah, I kinda still like that one." Discs are basically musical snapshots of artistic thought in any given point in time. That is why the best artists are always on to the next thing......don't fixate on "when I'm ready"....cuz you never will be....the disc will be a snapshot of where you are....

 

3shift...I salute you!.

[meganutt7]

This is the line that bothers me. Mark is a killer teacher and everything he said is gold, but I'm sensing something else at play. What's happening that you feel the need to "do something" or else you are out? Is it just a lack of musical inspiration? Life inspiration? A lack of control over your musical voice? Intimidation at the size of the "musical mountain" that lies in front of you? Going thru a tough "life segment"? Is this musically or with life in general? If you haven't thought this out, at least a little, re dedication could actually prove to have a negative effect. Well, let's put the fix on this idea. You will always need to play and write better. Every album you will ever do will need to be better. You might achieve control over your artistic voice, but you will STILL find things to improve on. Ever wonder why when an artist releases a disc, they say it is the greatest thing they have done yet, yet when they release the next album, they talk about the stuff they didn't like with the last one, and what they were shooting for with the new one? And they yap about how happy they are with it. And the cycle continues. Face it. You'll have to write several albums, then look back and go "yeah, I kinda still like that one." Discs are basically musical snapshots of artistic thought in any given point in time. That is why the best artists are always on to the next thing......don't fixate on "when I'm ready"....cuz you never will be....the disc will be a snapshot of where you are....

I'm with everyone else, praising you, 3shiftgtr... Very well said...

I remember in, I think it's Effortless Mastery, one of Kenny Werners' friends was trying to write a classical piece, perhaps an opera, and was very frustrated. Then he said it wasa lot of pressure ttrying to write a great and transcendental opera. Kenny said: "why don't you try to write a BAD opera?" That advice yielded a wonderful opera, as the inhibitions were gone for long enough for this guy to actually get his mind to stop censoring his creativity.

It's important to know when to compromise and when to not.

Another piece of advice I got from Wayne Krantz, was doing an exercise involving WRITING A SONG EVERYDAY!!! Write a melody, chords, a balline, drums, etc. BUT the catch is it has to be DONE in ONE DAY. RECORDED AND MIXED AND DONE. He said: "It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be done!"

This will really do alot of good for you, and face it.. if you write 100 songs, you have far more to choose from than if you have written 12. More likely than not, out of the 100 you have, 12 will be pretty decent, or MORE DECENT than the others...



play the percentages, my friend.

[Virgman]

You know that 3ShiftGtr guy makes some valid points from time to time :poke:

Indeed.

[u6crash]

Thanks for all the insight, guys. 3shiftgtr, in response to your questions:

I made a big move about a year ago from the middle of nowhere to the northside of Chicago. My commute to work is now 50 miles one way and playing guitar has taken a back seat to other things. Part of the whole reason I moved here was to focus more on art and music, though I'd hoped to have a new job by now. In lieu of that, I'm just going to have to make better use of the time I have and prioritize.

I hear what you're saying about not waiting to record, too. I am still writing and recording and do share some of it, but I'd like to get to a point where I have 25-30 songs and pick the ten best. Meganutt, regarding the Wayne Krantz strategy, I read about a similar technique where a group of people individually write and record 20 or more songs in a 8 hour period and share the results at the end. Not everything is gold, but you pull the little bits of genius out of it when you can. Where I'm at with some of the songs is that they are done in my head, but I can't consistently play them they way I'm trying to get them to sound.

[3shiftgtr]

Thanks for all the insight, guys. 3shiftgtr, in response to your questions: I made a big move about a year ago from the middle of nowhere to the northside of Chicago. My commute to work is now 50 miles one way and playing guitar has taken a back seat to other things. Part of the whole reason I moved here was to focus more on art and music, though I'd hoped to have a new job by now. In lieu of that, I'm just going to have to make better use of the time I have and prioritize. I hear what you're saying about not waiting to record, too. I am still writing and recording and do share some of it, but I'd like to get to a point where I have 25-30 songs and pick the ten best. Meganutt, regarding the Wayne Krantz strategy, I read about a similar technique where a group of people individually write and record 20 or more songs in a 8 hour period and share the results at the end. Not everything is gold, but you pull the little bits of genius out of it when you can. Where I'm at with some of the songs is that they are done in my head, but I can't consistently play them they way I'm trying to get them to sound.

Sounds like you are on the right track! Good luck with finding a new job. Not to sound all Pollyanna, but just believe and keep your feet moving. You'll find more time. It certainly is a good idea to consider better time management. Sheesh, I can relate to that!

Kinda funny tho', 20 years ago I moved from Chicago to the middle of nowhere! And that is when I turned pro! Go figure.

But I do remember going to see some amazing shows and constantly being inspired: Morse at the Park West, Buddy Guy at Rosa's, Danny Gatton at the Cubby Bear, Primus and Fishbone at the Vic, among others. Jazz Fest. Blues Fest. Street fests too! Sheesh the inspiration in that town! Just spending a day or two at the Art Institute of Chicago used to make me ATTACK my instrument. Admission was only $3!!!

And man, do I miss Lou Malnati's!!!!! Shoot, an Old Style and a Vienna red hot at Wrigley is a singular experience. Dude, you are in a great town with inspiration EVERYWHERE!!!! Relax, keep at it and you'll find it. Good luck!!!

And thanx fellers for all teh kind words.

[meganutt7]

Thanks for all the insight, guys. 3shiftgtr, in response to your questions: I made a big move about a year ago from the middle of nowhere to the northside of Chicago. My commute to work is now 50 miles one way and playing guitar has taken a back seat to other things. Part of the whole reason I moved here was to focus more on art and music, though I'd hoped to have a new job by now. In lieu of that, I'm just going to have to make better use of the time I have and prioritize. I hear what you're saying about not waiting to record, too. I am still writing and recording and do share some of it, but I'd like to get to a point where I have 25-30 songs and pick the ten best. Meganutt, regarding the Wayne Krantz strategy, I read about a similar technique where a group of people individually write and record 20 or more songs in a 8 hour period and share the results at the end. Not everything is gold, but you pull the little bits of genius out of it when you can. Where I'm at with some of the songs is that they are done in my head, but I can't consistently play them they way I'm trying to get them to sound.

 

 

My man... I think you are putting lots of undue pressure on yourself with all these terms you're doling out... "bits of genius", etc. Don't expect genius from yourself. Don't expect anything. Stoicism is not a bad thing when doing the art thing... Detachment is one of the keys to channelling an energy that is greater than yours (not to sound all metaphysical about it...)

 

if you are constantly trying to feed your ego in some way by improving, then your day to day life will be governed by how good your playing was that day. I have been there, and it's a sad state of affairs...

 

You need to, as Kenny Werner said, resign yourself to the fact that things will sound the way they sound. Rather than being down on what you play, learn to love everything you play, even the "redheaded stepchild", as it were...

 

This will make your creative process more productive, less taxing on your ego and mind and, frnakly, a lot more fun.

 

Also, I would recommend a book for you to read t otry to draw ideas from.

 

"The Inner Game of Music"

 

Read it and try some of the exercises detailed in it. I think you will enjoy it and, conversely, it will make you enjoy music more.

[jeremy_green]

^ +1

 

"The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten is a great read as well!

[meganutt7]

^ +1 "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten is a great read as well!

 

 

Indeed.

[Jeff1979]

In the last year I've been making a lot of changes. I feel like I'm getting to a point in my life where I've got to choose a definitive direction or be stuck doing something I don't want. Anyway, if I'm not careful I'm going to end up being one of those guys that used to play guitars. The best alternative seems to be to get more serious about it. One of the things on my bucket list is to write and record a full length album. I don't care if I have to pay out of my pocket to record 50 copies that go to friends and family, but I want it to be good and I'm going to need to play (and write) better first. There are a whole lot of resources for improving on the internet (this forum and elsewhere), but I'm starting to feel like I could really benefit from the structure of regular lessons. If I'm paying someone weekly to teach me, I'll be more likely to stick to a practice schedule, sad as that may be. What should I look for in a guitar teacher? What questions should I ask and what price should I expect to pay? These are some of the things I'd like to learn/improve upon over time: Identifying key signatures Identifying time signatures Advanced improvising Improved finger picking Improved rhythm and lead My preferred style is generally rock in the blues, folk, and grunge vein, though I'm open to trying out other genres if it makes me better. Any suggestions and direction you guys can give me would be most appreciated.

 

 

If you have the chance/time i would recommned joing a band if you can, its the best thing (i feel) to helping you improve and bringing back the fun factor to your playing...

[u6crash]

Not a quite a band, but my roommate and I just went in on sharing a practice space. We'll have access to drums and a PA system, but it's just two of us. I'd love to be in a proper band someday, but the timing just isn't right.

 

Thanks again for all the thoughts. I am going to wait at least until November to do the lessons. This weekend I'm taking a screen printing workshop in hopes of adding that to the list of things I can do and the first weekend in November I am playing a house party. Right now I'm on a practice regimen where I play during lunch at work. Seems to really take the edge off from my work woes.

[gennation]

Sounds like two things are going on, one your self acceptance in your abilities, and two some sort of 'reason' to make you sit down and play on a regular basis. Lessons can help you play better and understand things but lessons might not be what it's going to take for you to rise above where your 'head' is at right now.

 

But, you can do one thing to help both, start playing with some other people. One, if it goes good the peer acceptance will grow the self acceptance and give you not only confidence but a level a joy of playing. Two, if you get a regular schedule together with some people you WILL start playing guitar regularly.

 

Doing that one thing and gaining those two things will make you a better player by you just 'showing up'.

 

As far as your recording...

 

it doesn't matter how good of a player you are or aren't, if you're going to record the bottom line is you NEED tunes.

 

Suggestion, get a tape player that you can leave on record/pause. Put it near where you play your guitar at home. Every time you pick up the guitar take the deck off pause, and record, every time. When you're done playing put it back on pause. Do this whether you pick the guitar up for 30 seconds or 30 minutes.

 

This will allow you to listen to yourself for two reasons...

 

one, to make YOU aware of how YOU sound. It allows you to be the listener and the critic. You can fix a lot of issues and grow as a player by setting the guitar down and listening to yourself.

 

two, unless you are working on a specific piece of music, don't worry so much about listening back to the ideas immediately, just revisit them in a month or so or whenever. The idea is to always move ahead. So, when you sit in front of the recorder start creating, don't dwell so much on things you play all the time but learn how to sit down and start creating and finding fresh things each time you play. If you practice like this your creativity will grow...and you should end up with songs for you recording.

 

Songwriters practice writing songs.

[polishpaul]

OP wrote........

"I feel like I'm getting to a point in my life where I've got to choose a definitive direction or be stuck doing something I don't want."

You sound like me. I remember, at school, the careers guy asking me what I wanted to do..........I was 14. I remember thinking what a stupid question that was, to a kid of my age. How the hell would I know?

I immediately decided I definitely didn't want to become a jerk who asked stupid questions.

I'm 54, and still don't know what I want to do. Some people are born to a mission........others have the difficult job of trying to decide what to do for the best.

I think that it's hard for most people to make important decisions. Perhaps it's even harder to follow through after making a decision.

I suspect that you don't feel that you are a "musician". What will you have to do to believe that you are?

Believe that you are. By playing music. Ultimately, by getting the feeling that your music pleases people.

My grand-daughter dances when I play my crappy blues improvs.

So I'm a musician. No two ways about it.

It's that simple.

[Virgman]

I always knew what I wanted to be.

 

Retired.

[polishpaul]

Awesome!

[Mark Wein]

Looking back on this I think I missed the point of the OP

 

I like the idea of playing music with other people, regardless of the setting. It will always challenge you and pull your development along....

[polishpaul]

Yep...........dive in.............head-first................don't worry about the consequences...........just play!

Learn as you go..............it's a process..............a tough one..........

Really tough.

Building cars from scratch is much easier.

And that's a bitch, believe me.

Choose the hard road................

Every time.

Much sweeter the reward.