Members RoboPimp Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I've been complaining about basswood for years - you just never noticed. care to elaborate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jet Age Eric Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 the right shape, anyway. I mean the blacktop has, for reasons best known to fender themselves, got a horrible looking humbucker in the bridge. No one hates humbuckers more than I do--NO ONE--but, man, the neck and, surprisingly, middle position on the BT both sounded really, really good to me, and I'd never use the bridge pup on a JM anyway. Have you played one? -E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Akridosity Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 TOM bridge? or the ones on the Blacktops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Let It Burn... Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Interesting. Probably won't buy it but, interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moustache_Bash Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Phil, I just did a search and ... it didn't work out. Do you mind a quick recap? I admit to some kneejerk snobbery (and a proven love of alder), but I can't provide a reason for my dislike of basswood (and have suspected it's because there isn't one, so maybe you can validate me). -E You didn't ask nor am I expert, but one reason may be (that I've heard) is that basswood does not take abuse well or perhaps Phil just doesn't like the sonic qualities of basswood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thom Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Basswood is a bit softer if I'm not mistaking. The basswood guitars I or my buddies owne(d) were all notorious of being really vulnerable. Can't remember ever having any problems with the tonal value of basswood though, and though it's among the cheapest tonewoods, I think it's usually regarded as an okay wood for solid bodies. I'm not a fan of the TOM bridge, but if the vintage white and gold pickguard look as cool as I imagine, that guitar will be really hard to resist. Dirt cheap for a jazzmaster impo, and if it turns out I don't like it, it'd make a hell of a beater/project guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aaron SS Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Also remember that not all wood is created equally...density, age, and moisture content have a lot to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jet Age Eric Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 You didn't ask nor am I expert, but one reason may be (that I've heard) is that basswood does not take abuse well or perhaps Phil just doesn't like the sonic qualities of basswood. Hadn't heard about "softness," but that'd be a reason. I know basswood is considered less desirable, but I've heard that, tonally, it's very similar to alder (accent on "heard"). Thanks! -E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Loobs Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Exactly. You can get amazingly resonant swamp ash or unresonant boat-anchor dense swamp ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 care to elaborate Sure - and before I finish, let me just get it out of the way: csb I'd say my experiences are anecdotal, and not scientific, and while I'm willing to admit that the specific piece of wood can make all the difference in the world, the vast majority of basswood-bodied guitars I've tried have not been to my liking in terms of tonality. Just one example: I purchased a mid 80s MIJ '62 Custom Tele. Actually, I traded a '73 in on it straight across. Dumb, because that '73 was wickedly cool and only needed a refret job. Anyway, the 62 RI was new at the time, and just beautiful. Double bound, CAR, KILLER neck. Such a looker, and it played fantastic, which I'm really picky about. So despite the fact that it sounded rather thin and lacking in tonal complexity (kind of hard to describe, but more note fundamental, not much in terms of overtones), I decided to get it. I spent a couple of years trying to get that guitar to sound good. Pickup swaps. New saddles, and even a entire new bridge. I eventually got rid of it, although I ended up with some of the old parts - pickups, bridge... the new owner didn't want them; just the parts that I had on the guitar for replacements. Fast forward to a year or so ago, and I see a '62 RI neck in the Spam thread. Same year as my old one - late '85. So I buy it, with the intention of putting together a Tele for my nephew... and when given a choice between the two, he took MY Tele Special instead of the new one. Anyway, I used my old bridge and pickups (since replaced with SCN's - more as a nod to studio work and low-noise than as a tonal "fix") - I essentially recreated that old 62 Tele RI, except I used a different body - an unbound MIM CAR from a Nashville Deluxe Tele. They both have poly finishes, and the only real differences between it and the MIJ body are the lack of binding and the wood - this one's alder. It snaps. It squonks. It bites, but it retains midrange and complexity to the tone instead of having the thin and far less "interesting" and less complex sound of the basswood body. It's a BIG difference to my ears. This isn't the only time I've noticed the sound of basswood being "weak" or having less complexity. It's a weird wood - it seems to be all about the fundamental of the note, with less resonance, sustain and overtones than alder or even poplar. Now for some players, that might be a GOOD thing, and just the type of tone they're after, but it's not really what I'm looking for. And again, on some pieces of wood, the sound may vary in a good way, but overall, I'm just not a fan of the sound of basswood. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Basswood is a bit softer if I'm not mistaking. The basswood guitars I or my buddies owne(d) were all notorious of being really vulnerable. Yes, basswood is a fairly "soft" wood - softer than alder. But that's never been a big issue for me. I'm pretty careful with and "good" to my gear. Sure, "accidents happen" and I don't freak out when they do, but my stuff doesn't get terribly beat up. Can't remember ever having any problems with the tonal value of basswood though, and though it's among the cheapest tonewoods, I think it's usually regarded as an okay wood for solid bodies. It's like agathis and poplar - it's cheap and widely available, and can "work" for guitars, so it gets used a lot on less-expensive guitars, and / or as a cost saving measure. I don't dislike poplar - to me it sounds a lot more similar to alder than basswood does. I'm not a fan of the TOM bridge, but if the vintage white and gold pickguard look as cool as I imagine, that guitar will be really hard to resist. Dirt cheap for a jazzmaster impo, and if it turns out I don't like it, it'd make a hell of a beater/project guitar. Basswood may work great on that guitar... and if not, if the neck and parts are good, maybe you can always swap out the body for an aftermarket replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jet Age Eric Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 it seems to be all about the fundamental of the note, with less resonance, sustain and overtones than alder or even poplar. Now for some players, that might be a GOOD thing, and just the type of tone they're after, but it's not really what I'm looking for. And again, on some pieces of wood, the sound may vary in a good way, but overall, I'm just not a fan of the sound of basswood. YMMV. This sounds like what I heard with the Mustang RIs I played: Plunky, the note and nothing more. I was willing to chalk it up to, well, any number of things (pups, hardware, electronics), but maybe the basswood body could be a culprit. Thanks! -E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 phil hates basswood and the new wide range humbuckers... It's not so much that I hate the new "WRHB" as much as it is my thinking that they are not deserving of the name. Though they "look like" them on the outside, the internal materials and construction are totally different, and they sound nothing like the originals. They're just some generic, el cheapo humbucker with AlNiCo (MIM) or ceramic (MIJ / CIJ) magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moqi Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 This thread is now about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 This sounds like what I heard with the Mustang RIs I played: Plunky, the note and nothing more. I was willing to chalk it up to, well, any number of things (pups, hardware, electronics), but maybe the basswood body could be a culprit. Thanks! -E No problem. Remember, this is just one guy's opinion though, and there are quite a few people who disagree with me / us. Also, all Mustang RI's are not created equally in terms of woods, neck dimensions, etc. IMHO, the coolest shaped necks were MIJ's from the mid 90s era. They're a C shape, B width (1 5/8") and fairly thin front to back, and just super comfortable... but the body wood used back then was basswood, and the overall guitar (often erroneously called a "'69 reissue") wasn't really an accurate reissue of anything. The current Mustangs you can get in the USA (not counting the Pawn Shop Specials) are a much more accurate '65 reissue. They have "slab" bodies and lack the body contours of the earlier MIJ Mustangs and the later era USA built models ('69 to '82), and their necks are a bit chunkier, but the bodies are made from poplar, which is the "standard" wood that Fender used for the vast majority of the Fullerton built student models (Musicmasters, Duo Sonics, Mustangs), and again, to my ears, poplar generally sounds "better" than basswood does. I think it's much closer to alder in character. It's not a very "pretty" wood, and you pretty much have to finish most poplar bodies in a solid color, but that doesn't bother me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jet Age Eric Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 No problem. Remember, this is just one guy's opinion though, and there are quite a few people who disagree with me / us. Also, all Mustang RI's are not created equally in terms of woods, neck dimensions, etc. IMHO, the coolest shaped necks were MIJ's from the mid 90s era. They're a C shape, B width (1 5/8") and fairly thin front to back, and just super comfortable... but the body wood used back then was basswood, and the overall guitar (often erroneously called a "'69 reissue") wasn't really an accurate reissue of anything. I think these are the ones I'm thinking of--it's been years since I bothered to pick up a Mustang--but I thought they were slabs, too. -E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think these are the ones I'm thinking of--it's been years since I bothered to pick up a Mustang--but I thought they were slabs, too. -E No, they have tummy cuts and forearm contours. They came in two colors - kind of a sonic blue, and a vintage white / "banana pudding yellow" color - both usually came with ugly (IMHO) brown tort (sometimes red tort) pickguards. I've got two slab bodies (a Musicmaster and a mid-70s era Musicmaster that I converted to a Duo Sonic with some help from a friend at the Fender Custom Shop) and a '71 Mustang - all of them are poplar bodies. in 1969, Fender discontinued the Duo Sonic II, and started making "Competition" Mustangs with the racing stripe. These were the first models with the contours. They were discontinued in '72 or '73, although "regular" Mustangs remained in production - but after '69, the Mustangs all had the contoured bodies. The Musicmasters (later renamed "Music Master" for a few years) retained the "slab" style bodies. Pretty much all of these guitars - from the Musicmaster's introduction ion '56 up until it and the Mustang were discontinued in '82 - are poplar bodies, with the occasional mahogany bodied unit turning up from time to time - mostly in the pre-1964 era before the Mustang and II series Duo Sonic and Musicmaster models were introduced. MIJ / CIJ Mustangs have been made with both slab and contoured body styles. They're really popular guitars in Japan (where Fender builds all the current Mustang models), and the Japanese market has several models available that we can't get through "official" channels here in the USA or in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jet Age Eric Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Weird for two reasons: 1. I'm remembering a red RI from years ago (maybe it wasn't a slab; still sounded dead inside). Several years.2. I've got a countoured banana pudding Mustang that I thought was a '67. Got it for a song in '93 (because it sounded great) so I can't complain and didn't worrry about it's bona fides, but it'd be nice to know it's actual age. I know the neck is a '67; I've checked the date stamp. Mother of pearl pickguard. Maybe a Frankenstang?-E No, they have tummy cuts and forearm contours. They came in two colors - kind of a sonic blue, and a vintage white / "banana pudding yellow" color - both usually came with ugly (IMHO) brown tort (sometimes red tort) pickguards. I've got two slab bodies (a Musicmaster and a mid-70s era Musicmaster that I converted to a Duo Sonic with some help from a friend at the Fender Custom Shop) and a '71 Mustang - all of them are poplar bodies. in 1969, Fender discontinued the Duo Sonic II, and started making "Competition" Mustangs with the racing stripe. These were the first models with the contours. They were discontinued in '72 or '73, although "regular" Mustangs remained in production - but after '69, the Mustangs all had the contoured bodies. The Musicmasters (later renamed "Music Master" for a few years) retained the "slab" style bodies. Pretty much all of these guitars - from the Musicmaster's introduction ion '56 up until it and the Mustang were discontinued in '82 - are poplar bodies, with the occasional mahogany bodied unit turning up from time to time - mostly in the pre-1964 era before the Mustang and II series Duo Sonic and Musicmaster models were introduced. MIJ / CIJ Mustangs have been made with both slab and contoured body styles. They're really popular guitars in Japan (where Fender builds all the current Mustang models), and the Japanese market has several models available that we can't get through "official" channels here in the USA or in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lolque? Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 it is whitebalancing... it always looks 3 shades lighter in pics satin finish maybe Yeah, sometimes my JM photographs lighter than it really is. It's genuinely a deep {censored} brown, and I like it that way . Mines dark walnut stain with nitro clear. Satin may play a role in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ibentmywookie Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moustache_Bash Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Whoa. EVERYONE is going to own one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 No tremlock- {censored}ing dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TomCTC Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 GOOOD move Squier! And way to be quick with the image, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jordanjordan Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Would. Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AluminumFalcon Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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