Hey Phil, can we talk amp miking?

[Cirrus]

Do you have favourite mics, maybe certain techniques you use more than others?

 

Have been recording guitar parts all weekend (AC30 combo and AC50 head/cab) and I tried a few different methods. Started with an Audix I5 which I love for snare but it was just too clear and forward for guitar - the tracks weren't sitting in the mix right. So it was back to the trusty '57. For the 4x12 cab, I had a 57 and cheapo ribbon mic aligned to avoid phase problems.

 

Also tried backing the mics off which started out sounding quite open but again the tracks didn't sit right, they didn't have the bottom end I wanted.

 

CSB, eh?

[theboywho]

Sound on Sound did a couple of really good articles a couple of years back. Talks about technique and different producers methods.

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug07/articles/guitaramprecording.htm

 

It can be also good to DI the guitar so it can be re-amped and the same part recorded in different ways so you can compare and combine different mic placements. This is especially true if you are short on mics.

[Rizza]

If you haven't read it, Phil wrote a nifty 101 on amp miking.

[ArrMatey]

For recording guitar, position is everything. A 57 and a condenser are a great mix for me. Ribbons are good in certain applications but it also depends how far you position them.

 

I love using a sennheiser 441 as well, they seem to be so rich.

[tom92]

 

For recording guitar, position is everything. A 57 and a condenser are a great mix for me. Ribbons are good in certain applications but it also depends how far you position them. I love using a sennheiser 441 as well, they seem to be so rich.

 

Yeah at college we were comparing a condenser and a 57 and we all said that together they sounded a lot better than they did individually.

[frenchji]

I like using a mic that has a flat eq and placing it a foot or two away... even farther depending how sensitive the mic is or how loud the amp is. If I got another mic I'll put it somewhere in the room for ambience. I like my guitar to sound very open.. and I like the sound of a natural room vs digital 'verb. Probably not good practice.. whatever.. I don't care. Like the guy said above.. position is everything.. I've noticed myself that it's been different with every amp I've ever owned or recorded.. so that's something you need to experiment on your own.

 

If I'm using a sm57.. which I hate.. I put it fairly close and I have to have another mic behind it. sm57 by itself sucks.. I hate that thing.

 

I know.. I'm not phil.. sorry..

[H.R. Shove and Stuff]

Phil wrote a very good article about this maybe a month or so ago? Lets see if we can find it.

[Hiwatt Bob]

Royer 121 and/or Sennheiser e609. never got along with 57's.

[TheQuietWilds]

EV RE20. Those mics are so good on pretty much everything. I could record a whole rock album on one, pretty much. Love it on Vox, Guitar/Bass Cab and Floor Tom.

[Let It Burn...]

Heil Sound PR30. Aim it anywhere

 

Best cab mic I've ever used. Period

[Grueller]

 

Royer 121

 

 

I'd love to have one of these and just be set 4 lyf. Just as important, though, is the way you set the amp. It sounds much different in the room as compared to the immediate sound produced by the speakers.

[Cassette]

I just use the same vocal mic I use for my vocals and everything else, haha. I think I'm going to write a book called "For proper recordings, do the exact opposite of everything I do"

[Grueller]

 

I just use the same vocal mic I use for my vocals and everything else, haha.

 

 

Nothing wrong with that.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Phil wrote a very good article about this maybe a month or so ago? Lets see if we can find it.

 

Thanks guys. For those who missed it, here's the link to my Guitar Amp Miking 101 article:

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/docs/DOC-1854

 

Of course, that's just the basics, but that basic knowledge should take you pretty far in terms of miking up your amps. And if you guys want to discuss other / more advanced techniques, I'm certainly game.

[Phil O'Keefe]

BTW, some personal favorite mikes for guitar cabinets (in no particular order):

 

Ribbon Mikes:

 

Beyer M160

Royer R-121

Groove Tubes Velo-8

Cascade Fathead II

 

Ribbons have the lightest (and also most fragile) diaphragms of all mikes,. I'll spare you the techspeak - let's just put it this way: Transients (the very "start" of sounds - which are important to our recognition of sounds) are usually captured best / most "faithfully" by ribbon microphones. However, the passive ribbons (active ribbons have preamps built-in and are fairly rare and a recent invention) tend to have very low output level, requiring a good mic preamp with lots (50-70dB) of gain on tap. The high frequency response of most ribbon mikes is a little soft, so you may need to add some shelving EQ to brighten them up in some cases.

 

Moving coil dynamic mikes:

 

Shure SM57

Audix i5 and D2

Electro-Voice RE20 / RE320

Sennheiser MD421 / 441 / MD409

 

I have a e609, and it's "okay", but not a favorite, and it's not even a pimple on the 409's posterior. Moving coil dynamics have the least accurate transient response, but the best ruggedness, the best resistance to moisture, and normally very good to excellent high-SPL handling capabilities. They also tend to be relatively inexpensive, which (coupled with the durability) is why you see them used live so often. Their high frequency "reach" tends to be less than condensers.

 

Condenser microphones:

 

AKG C-414EB

Soundelux ELUX 251

Telefunken ELA M 251E

Neumann U67

 

I've also been working with the Mojave MA-300 lately - I'm doing a review of it for Electronic Musician. I'm really liking it a lot. It reminds me of a U67 in a lot of ways. It has that gloriously beefy midrange, and the subdued top. It's open and present, but not hyped and shrill and goosed to hell and gone like so many modern imported mikes. It's a seriously cool mic on amps. Condensers have relatively light diaphragms (low mass / low inertia = better transient response) and are essentially capacitors in terms of how they operate. In fact, they used to be commonly called "capacitor microphones", and their capsules use a metalized PVC or mylar diaphragm (usually sputtered with gold a few microns thick) and a charged backplate. As the diaphragm moves closer or further from the backplate, a charge is created (or discharged), and then the signal is sent out to an onboard preamp (and sometimes a transformer) for amplification to mic level and impedance conversion (the output from the capsule is extremely low level and high impedance), then sent to the mike's output jack. In a FET mic, your board's 48V phantom power is being used to provide the power for the charging of the capsule and powering the preamp. Condensers do tend to have good to excellent transient response and overall, the best high frequency "reach" and best / widest frequency response of all mikes. Small diaphragm condensers tend to suffer from increased self noise, and larger diaphragm condensers have issues of their own - especially "ring" and overshoot and less than stellar off-axis frequency response. They can occasionally sound "larger than life" - which is sometimes a good thing, and sometimes not - depending on what you're looking for.

 

For me, microphones are analogous to a photographer's lenses (they're what I "see" / or "hear" the world through), and microphones are very important to me; each type, each model has its own characteristics and quirks that you have to learn. It's really a life-long endeavour... but once you "know" your mikes, you can listen to something, look at the layout and situation and have a pretty good idea which mikes to reach for and how best to position them - but you still often have to try different things before you get exactly what you want... so please - don't take those mic position suggestions in the article as gospel - feel free to use them as a starting off point, and experiment (and carefully LISTEN to the results when you do) and explore from there.

[echodeluxe]

super helpful phil.

[jorhay1]

I've had some success on guitar amps using a TLM-103.

[SilenceSketches]

I like to use a mid-side pair with a 57 as the mid and a Cascade Fathead II as the side, sounds feckin' great and I can always revert to just the 57. Also depending on the room I'll through up an LDC, I normally use one of my MJE K47s. Well, that or my Axe-fx direct although that said I often take a direct line to later re-amp or throw through the Axe-Fx as a back-up.

[Cirrus]

Phil, thanks for that So by the sounds of it you've got a lot of different ways of doing things rather than particular "go to" techniques? I guess that makes sense because when you're running a studio I bet a lot of different tones and musical styles come through the door.

I just use the same vocal mic I use for my vocals and everything else, haha. I think I'm going to write a book called "For proper recordings, do the exact opposite of everything I do"

I'd buy a copy!

[TomCTC]

I've had some success on guitar amps using a TLM-103.

 

Amazing mic!

 

I've always enjoyed the e609 for tracking, and now for playing live as well. Incredibly nice!

[SilenceSketches]

 

P Cool, don't think I've ever heard of MS being used to record electric guit before! DO you have any clips?

 

 

I'm finishing up a mix of a new album for a local band at the moment that has it on a couple of tracks, I'll post it up when they are done.

[gambit]

interesting stuff in here.

 

what's the consensus on using isolation cabs? i live in a flat where noise can be an issue, and i've just started considering it as an option, but is the dead sound inside the box going to create some weird effects? i don't imagine you could completely kill the sound in the box could you?

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

interesting stuff in here. what's the consensus on using isolation cabs? i live in a flat where noise can be an issue, and i've just started considering it as an option, but is the dead sound inside the box going to create some weird effects? i don't imagine you could completely kill the sound in the box could you?

 

 

Nothing is completely "soundproof" - if you put a loud enough speaker in a iso cab and hit it with enough juice, there will probably be some "spill" from the box - escaping sound; but it's going to be a LOT less than without the iso cab, and for all practical purposes, it should be silent enough to prevent people in the rest of your apartment building from hearing it and complaining.

 

As far as the sound, well.... it's a single speaker, closely miked. You may be able to adjust the placement of the mic slightly - it depends on the design of your particular iso cab. However, it's always going to be a close-miked speaker in a very small space. Because of the small amount of space, and the need for isolation, the interior surfaces of those iso cabs are usually heavily lined with absorptive materials. The idea is to reduce interior resonances and reflections inside the box... so you wind up with a fairly direct and dry sound. Not direct as in "used a DI", but direct as in "lacking any of the room's early reflections and ambience." If you want to use a iso box, adding in at least the early reflections at mixdown will be very important in the sense of making the tone sound natural. At least IMHO. A small touch is all it takes. A similar amount of ambience or small space / room reverb can further help with adding back in some of the stuff that you're not getting from the use of the iso cab and close miking.