New Yamaha Motif XF

[DmitryKo]

"Octave Up/Octave Down" is NOT the same as Transpose C# is a mother of a key to navigate, it's much easier to hit "Transpose" and play in C

If you need to transpose by semitones, just press the [uTILITY] button then navigate to the relevant option with cursor keys. Or, alternatively, improve your playing skills

 

Still sounds too complicated on a dark stage.

That's why you should typically prepare your data before the performance, don't you think?

[GigMan]

That's why you should typically prepare your data before the performance, don't you think?

"Prepare my data"... huh? Obviously we are two different kind of musicians - or performers, dude:
I'm talking about playing music, LIVE - when things change at a moment's notice. I play in a band where there are NO setlists and they call out tunes on the fly, depdending on the crowd, the venue, the situation - if the dinner is about to be served, if dessert cart is coming out, etc... I have to be able to change up patches, sounds, layers, etc... on a few seconds notice. The only "data" I prepare is mentally - knowing the chord changes in the songs I have to play and knowing where my good sounds are.

[Miket156]

The Motif series was never intended to be a Performance synth, its a workstation that a lot of players use for live performance anyway. The functions that performers like Gary will use would be on the S70XS or S90XS,which as a lot of front panel controls for the gigging musician that has to do things on the fly.

Frankly, if i were Gary (Gigman) I'd be offended by some of the things that DmitryKo said. Gary can play, he's been doing it for years and years, and gets repeat bookings. So I'd venture a wild guess and say he doesn't need to prepare any more than he does, and he certainly doesn't need to hone his playing skills either. Getting the right synth for what he does is all that is required.


Mike T.

[NuSkoolTone]

The Motif series was never intended to be a Performance synth, its a workstation that a lot of players use for live performance anyway. The functions that performers like Gary will use would be on the S70XS or S90XS,which as a lot of front panel controls for the gigging musician that has to do things on the fly.

 

 

Says who? For EVERY Workstation I've owned, it was a GIVEN that it was suited for live use. The EXCEPTION IMO is the Motif. It's a PATHETIC live controller. Personally I make it work, and play in a similar situation to GigMan. Generally speaking, I want the workstation aspect available and don't want the weight of a weighted board. Some of the limitations of the XS and the workarounds required are downright maddening at times. WHY they simply omitted some BASIC features and the way things ALWAYS worked on ALL previous workstations is beyond me. I'm talking way beyond the transpose button! If it didn't sound so good and made it so easy to cop the songs we cover, I would have jumped ship a long time ago.

[GigMan]

Says who? For EVERY Workstation I've owned, it was a GIVEN that it was suited for live use. The EXCEPTION IMO is the Motif. It's a PATHETIC live controller. Personally I make it work, and play in a similar situation to GigMan. Generally speaking, I want the workstation aspect available and don't want the weight of a weighted board. Some of the limitations of the XS and the workarounds required are downright maddening at times. WHY they simply omitted some BASIC features and the way things ALWAYS worked on ALL previous workstations is beyond me. I'm talking way beyond the transpose button! If it didn't sound so good and made it so easy to cop the songs we cover, I would have jumped ship a long time ago.

Amen & Amen, brother... testify!

NST - I'm curious, what kind of band/musical situations do you play in, where you find the Motif XS so useable? I love my S90ES but it's so frikkin' huge (mammoth, really) that after almost 2 yrs. of draggin' it around from gig to gig, I've been considering going to a 76 key Motif XS instead - which is why this thread 'bout the Motif XF is interesting/relevant for me.

[Miket156]

Says who? For EVERY Workstation I've owned, it was a GIVEN that it was suited for live use. The EXCEPTION IMO is the Motif.

 

 

Says who? Yamaha. Why would Yamaha and OTHER synth companies have separate categories of instruments based on the features of each category on any ONE synth if one synth could handle all three; DP, Performance Synth, Workstation.

 

So if I were to take what you said a step further, do you sample on a gig? I doubt it. Do you RECORD sequences live? No way. Those are features that are intended for STUDIO use by their nature.

 

I owned other workstations before and their primary function was to act as a mini recording studio, before a lot of players started using computer software to do the same things that a workstation can do.

 

Who says? I DO.

 

 

Mike T.

[piano39]

I think that the Motif is a fantastic live performance board.

Like every other keyboard that I ever owned, though, it requires some planning.

 

On my Motif ES, I set up "pattern Mix" to spread out my 16 favorite patches across the voice select buttons. I have 13 of these as straight Motif voices, pianos, organs, clavs, etc. I have two of them (#14 & 15) set up as a split. The default split is Acoustic Piano in LH, "Sweet Flute" in RH. Real simple to go to "Voice Select" and change this. I reserve the last (#16) to play my Alesis Micron (The action on the Micron is awful, so I need this for one or two trickier solos.

 

The Motif has a fantastic action.

 

The biggest problem with the Motif is the steep learning curve.

[DmitryKo]

 

I'm talking about using the "Transpose" button/function on a RARE occasion, once in a blue moon - it would just be nice to have.

There are already enough buttons on the Motif to add something that can be used only once in a while, especially when the Transpose function is just a press of the [uTILITY] button away.

 

 

"Prepare my data"... huh? Obviously we are two different kind of musicians - or performers, dude: I'm talking about playing music, LIVE - when things change at a moment's notice. I play in a band where there are NO setlists and they call out tunes on the fly, depdending on the crowd, the venue, the situation

Well, if you absolutely must use realtime control buttons and make voices on the fly, S90XS/S70XS does feature Transpose, Split and Layer buttons.

 

Most people just reach for [CATEGORY SEARCH] button and find a factory Voice/Performance that has been thoroughly programmed with useable velocity layers/splits, arpeggios, effects, and knob assignments.

[DmitryKo]

Gary can play, he's been doing it for years and years, and gets repeat bookings. So I'd venture a wild guess and say he doesn't need to prepare any more than he does, and he certainly doesn't need to hone his playing skills either. Getting the right synth for what he does is all that is required.

Everyone needs to practice and everyone needs to know the patches on his synth. And if I were having trouble with certain keys, I would just practice them some more, not employ the Transpose function; but that's probably just me.

[Miket156]

Piano39 I think that the Motif is a fantastic live performance board. Like every other keyboard that I ever owned, though, it requires some planning.

 

 

The fly in the ointment is

[GigMan]

button and find a factory Voice/Performance that has been thoroughly programmed with useable velocity layers/splits, arpeggios, effects, and knob assignments.

This is also true - but only to a limited extent: my S90ES has a nice "Piano & Strings" patch ("Voice" I guess, in Yamaha's terms) stock, where you can adjust the amount of strings with one of the faders - but not much else in the way of useable layers & I don't see any splits - I had create a simple Piano & Organ layer voice myself, as well as a Rhodes with Organ layer. Also, for the serious ballads, sometimes I'd like to layer acoustic piano, bell-type 80's Rhodes and strings all together for a thicker sound... that'll take me a whole frikkin' weekend to program - whereas with a dedicated Layer button, BOOM! I'd be done.

[GigMan]

Everyone needs to practice and everyone needs to know the patches on his synth. And if I were having trouble with certain keys, I would just practice them some more, not employ the Transpose function; but that's probably just me.

 

 

Ok, now you really are just being obnoxious, dude. :poke:

[DmitryKo]

Ok, now you really are just being obnoxious, dude

Whatever.

[GigMan]

You are exaggerating. The dedicated buttons are just shortcuts to the relevant menu items in Performance edit, and on the Motif XS/XF the Perofrmance split/layer functions are on the very first page of the Edit mode. Please understand than the Motif XS/XF series are different from the Motif ES or S90ES; the interface is more straightforward thanks to larger screen and the OS that has been rewritten from ground up, even though it resembles the older OS. What takes several unrelated OS screens on the ES now only takes one screen on the XS/XF.

Ok... so how many seconds would it actually take to Transpose on Motif XF series keyboard w/out a Transpose key? If it's any more than, say - 3 or 4 seconds, then it's too long, if you are on stage w/a band waiting for you, a guest vocalist and a crowded dance floor that you're about to lose the attention of if you don't start playing - NOW!

With a Transpose button, it's about a 2 second operation, at least that's how it is on my other dig. piano, a Roland RD300GX (which I bought as an occasional lightweight alternative to using the S90ES). And can be done easily on a dark stage. So I imagine that's how quick it is on the Yamaha S90XS or S70XS.

Of course, lack of a Transpose button wouldn't make or break a deal for me if a particular keyboard had many other positive qualities - which is why I wound up buying a Yam. S90ES in Dec. 2008, instead of a Roland RD700GX, which was it's main contender for my attention: the RD700GX does have Transpose and Split/Layer buttons & the S90ES does not. I just mentioned it because I see Transpose and Split/Layer buttons now incorporated in the S90/S70XS series and I just think it'd be great to have in the Motif series as well.

[GigMan]

Would 17 kg vs 22 kg really make a difference?

Yamaha S90ES:
49lbs., 10oz

Yamaha Motif XF7:
37.92lbs.

It's almost a 12lb. difference - that, coupled w/the difference is size/girth, does indeed make a difference.

Ask anyone who gigs every weekend and has to move equipment in and out of a basement.

[DmitryKo]

 

how many seconds would it actually take to Transpose on Motif XF series keyboard w/out a Transpose key? If it's any more than, say - 3 or 4 seconds, then it's too long

On the Motif XS/XF, it's [uTILITY] -> [cursor down] x 5 times -> [YES/INC] -> [EXIT]. On S90ES, it's [uTILITY] -> [cursor down] -> [YES/INC] -> [EXIT]. I don't know how long does it take for you to execute.

 

If you absolutely must have the fastest operation on Transpose function, there's no subsitute for [TRANSPOSE+]/[TRANSPOSE-] buttons on the S70XS/S90XS, which would only take a single keypress for your C# case.

 

 

On the other hand, splitting/layering is not instant even with dedicated buttons; there might be a convenience of simplified setup screens, but the time taken to actually construct a new basic Performance and save it to a new User location is quite similar on both S90XS and Motif XS/XF, and not even close to "a whole weekend" as you said.

[NuSkoolTone]

I use my Motif for LIVE performances too. I create songs, patterns, sequences, load samples, at home and save off my data to USB drives. When I play live gigs as a solo act, I load up my data an play along with the sequences I created at home and sing. So yes, the Motif can be used for live shows, but its not the best choice for Gigman because his band doesn

[GigMan]

buttons on the S70XS/S90XS, which would only take a single keypress for your C# case. On the other hand, splitting/layering is not instant even with dedicated buttons; there might be a convenience of simplified setup screens, but the time taken to actually construct a new basic Performance and save it to a new User location is quite similar on both S90XS and Motif XS/XF, and not even close to "a whole weekend" as you said.

Yes, of course - the "it'll take a whole weekend" comment (to set up a split/layer on my S90ES) was an exaggeration for comic effect... - just to further emphasize how ridiculously complicated the procedure is on the S90ES and the Motif series.

BTW - the Split/Layer button on my Roland RD300GX DOES work INSTANTLY: if I want to layer an organ sound over a Rhodes & then even split w/bass in left hand (or ANY other combination of sounds), I can set that all up on the fly in about 5 seconds. Granted the RD300GX has a much more LIMITED soundset than the S90ES, which is why I don't often use it for band gigs but more for solo, duo, small trio work... but still - the dedicated Layer/Split & Transpose buttons are SOOOOO easy to use.

[Miket156]

I don't recall yamaha EVER saying the Motif series weren't designed for live use and were primarily a studio instrument. If they did, they're changing the way things have ALWAYS been. Yes Mike, I remember when basic sequencing was a novelty too. What that qualifies, I don't know, but since you obviously feel it's relevant I'll add that for street cred. Please tell me where the performance synth market is? Who still makes them besides nord? Digital Pianos have always been there own thing and the S series is sort of between their CP and Motif Stuff. Oh and YES I do use sampling LIVE. Now do I "sample" live? No, I have nice high end mics and outboard gear with a full featured DAW to prepare samples if I want to make something homegrown. I use the Vocoder too! Once the Tap Tempo is implemented, I might start using the Arp on the Motif instead of just my M50! So for the exception of using the actual sequencer because I play with a full band, I'm using most of the features of the Motif. So the "No it's a STUDIO workstation" excuse is out. And: Good for you to set this up, but do you really find that ACCEPTABLE in a modern workstation? This method has been mentioned before as a "Solution" to the Motif's shortcomings, though I'd only attempt this as a last resort

 

 

Yamaha has advertised the Motif series as a workstation, the S series as a Performance synth, and their Digital Pianos as

[DmitryKo]

 

BTW - the Split/Layer button on my Roland RD300GX DOES work INSTANTLY: if I want to layer an organ sound over a Rhodes & then even split w/bass in left hand (or ANY other combination of sounds), I can set that all up on the fly in about 5 seconds. Granted the RD300GX has a much more LIMITED soundset than the S90ES, which is why I don't often use it for band gigs but more for solo, duo, small trio work...

Well, you need to evaluate what is more important to you - larger wave ROM, balanced hammer action, unit weight, or dedicated Split/Layer and Transpose buttons - as you can't have everything in one machine.

 

IHMO most people in the US will prioritize it in the exact order I specified above.

[b3keys]

If the Motifs weren't designed for live use, then why do you see them on so many stages and used by a variety of artists from Rock/Country/Pop/RnB? Your assessment is inaccurate.

[sani]

I used the transpose function on my RD700GX. I was just lazy to learn to play the song in the original tune. I don't have problems with my technique since I'm a classical trained piano player but on couple of tunes I didn't had the time to learn it properly.
The problem always starts if you forget to deactivate the transpose function after you played a song transposed. It can happen because you are focused to the next song, what's going on on the stage...
Don't need to tell anybody how it sounds in front of a big audience when you start to play an intro into a song solo, with just the piano (while you forget to deactivate the transpose from your previous playing) and than the band chimes in and everything sounds wrong.
F.ck that stupid transpose function.
Besides that, why should the keyboard have to compensate for the singers limited voice range?

[mrcpro]

Yamaha S90ES : 49lbs., 10oz Yamaha Motif XF7 : 37.92lbs. It's almost a 12lb. difference - that, coupled w/the difference is size/girth, does indeed make a difference. Ask anyone who gigs every weekend and has to move equipment in and out of a basement.

I'm in agreement with Gigman on this one. For casual one-nighters I use only a Motif ES7 (transported in a soft case) and that's basically the upper limit. And I'm in pretty good shape too.

It's like there's a line drawn at around 40 pounds. Anything much over that becomes too hard to move easily when you consider all that goes into this.

BTW it's actually easier to move my hammer-action 88 key controller Studiologic SL-880 than that 76 unweighted key Motif. All Motifs are just so darned awkward to transport, and why I'm going to look elsewhere for it's replacement.

I don't know what yet, but it may be just a PX3 for now. I do miss a weighted 88 keyboard.

[Devnor]

Fantom G has front panel transpose & Live mode..for those reasons it seems to be the gigging board to get unless you don't like the Roland sound Personally speaking I've been playing a Fantom X too long & the XF seems like a real winner.

[GigMan]

Well, you need to evaluate what is more important to you - larger wave ROM, balanced hammer action, unit weight, or dedicated Split/Layer and Transpose buttons - as you can't have everything in one machine. IHMO most people in the US will prioritize it in the exact order I specified above.

And actually I did prioritize in that order:

****************

****************

..but now that I see Split/Layer & Transpose added to the S90/S70XS series - I DO want it all: add them to the Motif XF series and then I'd have a fairly lightweight gig machine w/killer sounds, sequencer, sampling AND easy-to-use Performance features..