Members Drew5887 Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 I get the impression that Mesa style amps and others that rely more on preamp gain don't need to be cranked while older Marshall style amps do. Is this correct? Do all tube amps sound better when pushed hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3red Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Panther Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Non master volume amps. Old Marshalls and such. Most of the newer "High Gain" Amps don't rely on it...but still sound better cranked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixtonoize Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Generally, more "modern" sounding amps rely more on preamp gain: Mesa, Engl, 5150s. More "Vintage" sounding amps rely more on power tube saturation: Fender, Bad Cat, Marshall. As far as what sounds "better", that's up to the user. ALL tube amps sound better loud. If you push a modern amp too hard, they can turn to mush, but that point is at an absolutely STUPID level of volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Boltino Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Non master volume amps. Old Marshalls and such. Most of the newer "High Gain" Amps don't rely on it...but still sound better cranked up. I pretty much agree with this. My Mark IV relies mostly on preamp gain. The power tubes do add something when turned up though. My Tremolux is a NVM amp that relies on preamp tube saturation for gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 mesa el84 amps have a pretty good mix of both... and they're pretty modern sounding, or at least to an old {censored}er like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kinggeoff Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 If you push a modern amp too hard, they can turn to mush, but that point is at an absolutely STUPID level of volume. kt88s to the rescue!!!!! problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drew5887 Posted July 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 When I see people with 150 watt triple rectifiers and several 4x12 cabs it seems like they have no chance of reaching power section saturation. My tiny blues jr gets way too loud for me to crank up in my townhouse. Would a hotplate be an asset to a mark series boogie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rydia is hot Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Would a hotplate be an asset to a mark series boogie? it has selectable wattage, so i wouldn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 sure you dont mean phase inverter saturation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C-4 Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Actually, I am downsizing specifically to amps that have adjustable power tube and pre-amp tube distortion.I love the tone generated from overdriven power tubes, with just a touch of pre amp distortion.Duesentrieb and Diezel are building me just such an amp at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monoXstereo Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 all ^This. Mesas definatly sound WAY better cranked. The famous "Recto" tone comes from the power amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Grimace Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 I get the impression that Mesa style amps and others that rely more on preamp gain don't need to be cranked while older Marshall style amps do. Is this correct? Do all tube amps sound better when pushed hard? Wrong. Mesa amps rely more on hype and product endorsements than either preamp OR power amp saturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wrong. Mesa amps rely more on hype and product endorsements than either preamp OR power amp saturation. no, thats not it. you might not like them, but that doesn't make them purely machines of marketing, c'mon now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 ^This. Mesas definatly sound WAY better cranked. The famous "Recto" tone comes from the power amp. they may sound better up a bit, but just about all mesas revolve around preamp overdrive. once the power tubes start to breakup in a mesa, they start to get muddy (with just about any other pre-amp gain amp where the power section is meant to be clean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrispsullivan Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 i don't think it's really so simple that you can just lump everything into two categories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 c'mon now.. What's the point when you're dealing with AG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brick Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 in a modern high gainer, I don't like power tube distortion. I like to get em loud enough where they start to breathe and sound like it's supposed to. But anything vintage, plexis, JMP's, vintage fenders all sound better with some power tubes cooking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 in a modern high gainer, I don't like power tube distortion. I like to get em loud enough where they start to breathe and sound like it's supposed to. But anything vintage, plexis, JMP's, vintage fenders all sound better with some power tubes cooking exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wrong. Mesa amps rely more on hype and product endorsements than either preamp OR power amp saturation. Wrong. Mesa/Boogie's Rectifier Series amplifiers rely more on hype and product endorsements than either preamp OR power amp saturation. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drew5887 Posted July 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 So basically what I'm hearing from most people is that in general the distortion tones that you most associate with high gainers is from the preamp, and the overdrive tones that you associate with more vintage amps comes from the power section (or phase inverter). If I were to use both at the same time, would it make sense to use an attenuator on the vintage amp, but not on the modern amp, as master volume is significantly less important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Define "good" first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 What a lot of you don't understand is that the power tubes in most amps really don't break up much at all. What most people think is power tube distortion is really phase inverter overdrive combined with speaker overdrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drew5887 Posted July 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 Define "good" first. Good: Punchy, smooth, warm yet crisp, midrangey, and with tons of clarity. Also looking for both a twangy attack, and a pretty decent palm mute. My dream is to be able to play dissonant chords and voicings with alot of sustain and chunk, but be able to pick out every single note. Imagine AC/DC rhythm guitar, but a just a little bit hotter, tighter, clearer and more immediate. If that makes any sense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted July 7, 2008 Members Share Posted July 7, 2008 What a lot of you don't understand is that the power tubes in most amps really don't break up much at all. What most people think is power tube distortion is really phase inverter overdrive combined with speaker overdrive. well... i think yer right in a lot of instances-- but it also depends a lot on the tubes and the circuit.. if you're using a quad of 6l6es.. that's gonna be a pretty tall order to overdrive.. but if you're using a pair of 6v6es or el84's? not so much.. i've got about 30 watts worth of speaker in my 15 ish watts amp.. so i dunno how close i'm getting to getting cones a-flappin-- but i AM sure the PI's hitting the wall cranked clean, as well as the tubes... but y' make a good point that there's more afoot than just the pre or the power tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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