Members bigdaddyd Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 I wondered that too, and some of it is definitely the political correctness culture. Some of it though was the lack of internet for people in their basements to blow things completely out of proportion. Despite some of the internet big guys "you'd get beat up taking this to a club", the real truth is that anyone who even noticed the swastika would be think "cool paint job" or "camo paint jobs are so 80's", not "this guy must be a closet nazi". It probably wouldn't even register there since they don't have the context of seeing the before and after pics that we did. Now, if it was a bright red guitar with a huge swastika across it, then it could seriously be considered some sort of statement - most likely some general rebellious one, but maybe "Hitler was a cool dude!" or similar. Agree. The Rebel Flag is much more in your face and obviously a statement beyond just being a cool paint job. Btw, I love old Charvels and own several, but ironically I never liked owning the paint jobs and just have solid colored ones. (I like the paint jobs, including this one, but they just aren't "me" to play.) However, I don't find it offensive if someone else slaps some symbols on there. Without reference, I'm not about to assume what they mean to that person. One historical note in this thread: yes, it was perfectly possible, and quite common, to be a member of the Nazi party and to not know anything about the death camps or other atrocities. It was a big political party with a lot of members who were only interested in advancing their own personal interests (or maybe even patriotically advancing the country's interests - which the Nazi's undoubtedly did pre-war), much like many Republicans and Democrats in the US. Everyone certainly knew about relocations and other clearly discriminatory actions against certain groups (not limited to Jews, though they were the largest single group). In some cases, it may have taken some level of willful ignorance, but this is very easy to come by in modern America let alone in the paranoid world of a dictatorship (this is a well documented phenomenon in all dictatorships btw). History is very cool, but it's even better when you start looking at things as they really were rather than trying to pigeon hold everything into nice little boxes...it's also a hell of a lot more complex then too! That's enough rambling off topic for now. There is no way that it was possible to be a member of the nazi party for the entire duration of the Holocaust and not know what was going on, unless you were a moron. It is possible that at some point you didn't know, but for the entire duration, it is impossible. It might not feel good to accept what was done and to know that you were part of it (I don't mean you per se, ) but your premise is ridiculous. I understand the history involved, and I know what you are trying to say, but you can not include such a general statement, especially when you say, "...it may have taken some level of willful ignorance." I mean wtf. Way to prove my point. That is all I was saying to begin with. People knew what was going on. As for the internet tough guy {censored}, if you don't think waving a symbol like that infront of victims or relatives of victims can or will result in violence than you are a fool. It has nothing to do with internet muscles. I am not speaking about myself. If you know so much about history, and especially about the holocaust, then I would think you would have a clue about this as well. Hate crimes are prevalent enough in our society to warrant their own laws. Think about that. I don't think OP had any hate intentions, nor do I think he would get this kind of response to his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dreamspace Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No-one ever complained about Lynch or Hanneman But look, WHATEVER logo or symbol anyone puts on the guitar, someone's always gonna get upset and offended. It doesn't matter if it's a swastika, star of david, rising sun etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members olgluefoot Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 the guitar, swastika included = {censored}ing rad! the matter of the swastika... get over it people. Dont let a few crazy Nazis ruin thousands of years of good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missingastring Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No-one ever complained about Lynch or Hanneman But look, WHATEVER logo or symbol anyone puts on the guitar, someone's always gonna get upset and offended. It doesn't matter if it's a swastika, star of david, rising sun etc. He can have whatever he wants on it. It's his {censored}ing guitar. Doesn't mean he isn't a gigantic douchebag for owning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BerkleeBill Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Is it any worse than Zakk's REBEL FLAG Les Paul???? Oh, don't even get me started on the Rebel Flag. That's just {censored}ing retarded that people are offended by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigdaddyd Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No-one ever complained about Lynch or Hanneman But look, WHATEVER logo or symbol anyone puts on the guitar, someone's always gonna get upset and offended. It doesn't matter if it's a swastika, star of david, rising sun etc. actually, they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Charvel +>camo = Win.....sWastIca +>NaZi = FaiLz....this thread sUcKz:facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aibric Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 I wouldn't go around with a swastika guitar but it is funny how victor's history and propaganda color things. The hammer and sickle is not considered offensive, even though the Soviet Union and China make the Germans look like amateurs when it comes to brutality, enslavement and mass murder. This is because the Russians were on our side (sort of) but mostly because there is no concerted marketing effort to publicize and reinforce these events. The death of Jewish people during the war has been built up over decades to be the singular tragic event of WWII and probably of the 20th century. It certainly is tragic, but it isn't the "singular event" zionists claim it to be. The entire war was tragic, every death, particularly of innocents, was the greatest tragedy. Then again, I don't believe the descendants of Abraham are a special group of people God has chosen to rule over the earth after the messiah comes, any more than I think Germanic tribes are the "master race." We all know the Irish are the master race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seano Porno Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Bull {censored} they were mass murders and knew exactly what they were doing . May they all burn in hell . Wooooaaaahh there nelly...re-read his post....you've just called his family mass murderers and wished them an eternal BBQ in hell........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RMS Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 There is no way that it was possible to be a member of the nazi party for the entire duration of the Holocaust and not know what was going on, unless you were a moron. It is possible that at some point you didn't know, but for the entire duration, it is impossible. It might not feel good to accept what was done and to know that you were part of it (I don't mean you per se, ) but your premise is ridiculous. No it's not. It is in fact correct. There are plenty of people who were Nazi party members to keep their jobs as postmen, local magistrates, etc. on the home front who very well could have had no idea what was going on other places. There's no free press. There are rumors, but nothing can be substantiated. Recall that most death camps were located outside of Germany and for a very good reason. I understand the history involved, and I know what you are trying to say, but you can not include such a general statement, especially when you say, "...it may have taken some level of willful ignorance." I mean wtf. Way to prove my point. That is all I was saying to begin with. People knew what was going on. Willful ignorance is not looking at something too close for fear of what you'll actually find. There are undoubtedly a lot of people who didn't want to look close enough to know if rumors were really true or not, so they didn't know. (Even if they looked, there was no way for them to substantiate anything as mentioned above, so they still don't really know. They may suspect, but don't know.) Maybe they should have known, but that's an entirely different issue. That's willful ignorance. (I'm not making any judgments on guilt or innocence as a result of said ignorance, whether willful or not.) As I said before, that is very common in a dictatorship where the people know that even if they figure out something horrible is going on, there's nothing they can do about it. Also, the entire idea of the death camps was so preposterous on the surface that many people took a long time to believe it. Even when the initial reports of discovering them were passed up the chain of command most of the US brass didn't believe it or thought it was completely exaggerated until they went to see them for themselves. That's why Eisenhower had so many troops and German citizens pass through the camps. He knew that many wouldn't believe if because the idea was taken completely beyond anything any reasonable human (from any locale - even Germany) would believe without very solid proof. What bothers me most about people's perception of Nazism and everything that went with it, is the attempt to cast them as some sort of boogie man or inhuman monster to explain them. That misses the point completely. What makes them so evil and so worth understanding (to some extent) is that for the most part they were just normal people like us trying to do what was best for their families, themselves, and their country. That's why I tend to find offense when people try to lump all them together as some big nonhuman entity. When they do that, they lose the lesson we need to learn from this period of history, which is how easy it is for good intentioned people to support something so evil. As for the internet tough guy {censored}, if you don't think waving a symbol like that infront of victims or relatives of victims can or will result in violence than you are a fool. It has nothing to do with internet muscles. I am not speaking about myself. If you know so much about history, and especially about the holocaust, then I would think you would have a clue about this as well. Hate crimes are prevalent enough in our society to warrant their own laws. Think about that. Sorry, but I just find the whole "you'll get beat up for doing X, Y, Z" incredibly lame when we know in real life people don't drop the gloves that quickly. Maybe someone gets offended, but face-to-face people usually find more mature ways of dealing with it than just taking swings at a stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth Man Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 To me the axe is fugly as {censored}. But the OP said he's just a bedroom guy so he's only really gonna be offending people on the internet. If he plays out with it then I imagine someone will get offended and take it to the next level. And to the apologists of Nazi party members who plead that they were ignorant I suggest you read Mein Kampf. That book spells out very clearly what Hitler's world view was and what the Nazi party was all about. By the end of the war Mein Kampf had been published and distributed in the millions throughout Germany. It was also given free to troops and newly married couples, and made Hitler a fortune. So no German from that era can really put forward a case of ignorance as to what Hitler's end game was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No-one ever complained about Lynch or Hanneman a lot of people complained about Hanneman actually. For a while his signature camo ESP had Nazi SS inlays, which were later replaced because a lot of people took offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 To me the axe is fugly as {censored}. But the OP said he's just a bedroom guy so he's only really gonna be offending people on the internet. If he plays out with it then I imagine someone will get offended and take it to the next level.And to the apologists of Nazi party members who plead that they were ignorant I suggest you read Mein Kampf. That book spells out very clearly what Hitler's world view was and what the Nazi party was all about.By the end of the war Mein Kampf had been published and distributed in the millions throughout Germany. It was also given free to troops and newly married couples, and made Hitler a fortune. So no German from that era can really put forward a case of ignorance as to what Hitler's end game was. the (in)famous 'ich habe es nicht gewusst' defense used by a lot of nazis was thrown out of the war tribunal pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aibric Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No it's not. It is in fact correct. There are plenty of people who were Nazi party members to keep their jobs as postmen, local magistrates, etc. on the home front who very well could have had no idea what was going on other places. There's no free press. There are rumors, but nothing can be substantiated. Recall that most death camps were located outside of Germany and for a very good reason. Willful ignorance is not looking at something too close for fear of what you'll actually find. There are undoubtedly a lot of people who didn't want to look close enough to know if rumors were really true or not, so they didn't know. (Even if they looked, there was no way for them to substantiate anything as mentioned above, so they still don't really know. They may suspect, but don't know.) Maybe they should have known, but that's an entirely different issue. That's willful ignorance. (I'm not making any judgments on guilt or innocence as a result of said ignorance, whether willful or not.) As I said before, that is very common in a dictatorship where the people know that even if they figure out something horrible is going on, there's nothing they can do about it. Also, the entire idea of the death camps was so preposterous on the surface that many people took a long time to believe it. Even when the initial reports of discovering them were passed up the chain of command most of the US brass didn't believe it or thought it was completely exaggerated until they went to see them for themselves. That's why Eisenhower had so many troops and German citizens pass through the camps. He knew that many wouldn't believe if because the idea was taken completely beyond anything any reasonable human (from any locale - even Germany) would believe without very solid proof.What bothers me most about people's perception of Nazism and everything that went with it, is the attempt to cast them as some sort of boogie man or inhuman monster to explain them. That misses the point completely. What makes them so evil and so worth understanding (to some extent) is that for the most part they were just normal people like us trying to do what was best for their families, themselves, and their country. That's why I tend to find offense when people try to lump all them together as some big nonhuman entity. When they do that, they lose the lesson we need to learn from this period of history, which is how easy it is for good intentioned people to support something so evil. I think you're absolutely right. The almost supernatural sort of aura that has been cast around the "evil nazis" only serves to let other nations isolate themselves from the reflection that regimes and wars like that should cause. I don't see Hitler as this possessed demon of a man, as he was a man like any other, and without the emotions that have been developed over the last 50 years about that war, he is more of a figure like Julius Caesar or any other tyrannical ruler. They all cause death and war to some, and prosperity to others. Its shocking to suggest to some people that he was a man with positive and negative points like any other, because this absurd picture of him as a slavering lunatic who eats jewish babies has been painted. If he were like that, he would never have gotten anywhere. He was a brilliant person in many respects and between himself and the people he surrounded himself with, methods were devised to control a whole country - methods employed today by the United States, Britain and countless others. That is where the point lies. In the "allied" countries and related nations like Israel, horrible things have happened and are happening now. But the ghost of WWII even today justifies many things and serves as a way to always separate "us" from "them". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aibric Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 To me the axe is fugly as {censored}. But the OP said he's just a bedroom guy so he's only really gonna be offending people on the internet. If he plays out with it then I imagine someone will get offended and take it to the next level.And to the apologists of Nazi party members who plead that they were ignorant I suggest you read Mein Kampf. That book spells out very clearly what Hitler's world view was and what the Nazi party was all about.By the end of the war Mein Kampf had been published and distributed in the millions throughout Germany. It was also given free to troops and newly married couples, and made Hitler a fortune. So no German from that era can really put forward a case of ignorance as to what Hitler's end game was. Having actually been to Germany and talked to people who were alive at the time, it is alot more complex than you seem to acknowledge. Britain and the United States may one day find themselves the subject of just this type of conversation, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 I have a question about the Lynch guitar... the bombs represent different missions flown, right? How does a kamikaze pilot do more than one mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 I have a question about the Lynch guitar... the bombs represent different missions flown, right? How does a kamikaze pilot do more than one mission? by the way, what's up with that guitar anyway? look at the neck, the pickups and the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kenny Powers Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 No-one ever complained about Lynch or Hanneman But look, WHATEVER logo or symbol anyone puts on the guitar, someone's always gonna get upset and offended. It doesn't matter if it's a swastika, star of david, rising sun etc. lol wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aibric Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 by the way, what's up with that guitar anyway? look at the neck, the pickups and the bridge "It's only a model..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mynameistaken Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 To me the axe is fugly as {censored}. But the OP said he's just a bedroom guy so he's only really gonna be offending people on the internet. If he plays out with it then I imagine someone will get offended and take it to the next level. I doubt anyone would actually notice it. only guitar players pay attention what kind of guitar it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Digital Jams Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 by the way, what's up with that guitar anyway? look at the neck, the pickups and the bridge Real bad rip off.................... Christ this be polite and dont offend anyone is turning people into slap jawed pussies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aibric Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Real bad rip off.................... Christ this be polite and dont offend anyone is turning people into slap jawed pussies :poke: Pretty sure that is one of those miniature models they make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth Man Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Britain and the United States may one day find themselves the subject of just this type of conversation, you know. What do you mean exactly? Despicable acts committed by the British throughout history is not the subject under discussion here. I don't support the British actions in Iraq. And I find it disgusting that we have the 2nd largest "defence" budget in the world after the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 To me the axe is fugly as {censored}. But the OP said he's just a bedroom guy so he's only really gonna be offending people on the internet. If he plays out with it then I imagine someone will get offended and take it to the next level. And to the apologists of Nazi party members who plead that they were ignorant I suggest you read Mein Kampf. That book spells out very clearly what Hitler's world view was and what the Nazi party was all about. By the end of the war Mein Kampf had been published and distributed in the millions throughout Germany. It was also given free to troops and newly married couples, and made Hitler a fortune. So no German from that era can really put forward a case of ignorance as to what Hitler's end game was. All I know is that judging by your logic, Obama's two books should illustrate perfectly what his leadership is about. The whole Nazi thing was complex at best. The guitar is cool, but the swastika is tacky. I just think it is in poor taste. I would rock a confederate flag though just cause it represents dixie to me, not hate. I suppose perception is reality on HCAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth Man Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 All I know is that judging by your logic, Obama's two books should illustrate perfectly what his leadership is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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