Members wok Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 yeah Im sure he is really drawn to swastikas, just something that attracts him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glenecho Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 so that left the bassist and the drummer. drummer was not the most socially skilled guy, and would rather smoke a bowl and watch TV.....which left our bassist, Tommy Gunn (i am NOT {censored}ting you....TOmmy Gunn) So out of curiousity, what has become of Tommy Gunn? Where is he now (not necessarily physically...just life in general)? Don't ask me why I care...I don't...just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FrontEndLoader Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 its not 1977 anymore having swastikas on your clothes or gear is such a passe thing to do also, camo sucks and non recessed floyds for the mother {censored}ing lose! that offends me more than the nazi symbolism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 So out of curiousity, what has become of Tommy Gunn? Where is he now (not necessarily physically...just life in general)? Don't ask me why I care...I don't...just wondering. I don't know.....after the band split up, the only one I have managed to keep in touch with is the lead singer. Don't know where any of our 5 ex-bassist are, nor do I know where the drummer is. It's a lonely business.....90% of the guys that i knew who played in the 80s are either dead or insurance salesmen or something:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 its not 1977 anymore having swastikas on your clothes or gear is such a passe thing to do also, camo sucks and non recessed floyds for the mother {censored}ing lose! that offends me more than the nazi symbolism Quality post! WIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 I understand why someone would be upset buy the glorification of death squads and madmen that oversaw the deaths of a few million people . The glorification of death squads and madmen that oversaw the deaths of a few million people is perpetrated by people who wish to glorify it, not a symbol. The nazi symbol was a symbol of a political party that happened to have a regime that presided over the slaughter of a lot of Jews AND others. By taking the focus off of the actual people that perpetrated the atrocities and those who glorify it by attributing it to a symbol disrespects the memories of the people killed. The killers had names.So, if McCain gets in and becomes a genocidal maniac, will the Republican Elephant be as taboo as the schwastika?Should it?Not to mention, my grandparents and uncles were members of the Nazi party. You know what? They had no idea the atrocities were happening. It is like our country is with the CIA. We have no idea what they do right now.The fact that you and others make a blanket assessment of the people who belonged to this party by over demonizing the symbol, is a disrespect to my family,as well as being highly predjucicial if not racist (Yes, the definition applies to ALL races, not just a select few.)Persecute NAMES not SYMBOLS.BTW, why didn't they take the bomb symbols off of the guitar? Each one signifies a significant bombing. We cant pick and choose, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kenny Powers Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Isn't it {censored}ing funny that a symbol of hate evokes more hate than the symbol itself? People. Classic. are you serious? like not trolling? You think the reaction to the symbol actually surpasses the hate involved with the slaughter of millions of people? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Isn't it {censored}ing funny that a symbol of hate evokes more hate than the symbol itself? People. Classic. Tell it to the more than 6 million who died in the Gas Chambers and Labor camps, that symbol was the last thing they saw on thier captors uniforms, in general it's a {censored}ty thing to put on a guitar just to be "cool". The victims of atrocities at the hands of Nazis and war in general deserve better. Whats wrong with white or blue guitars anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missingastring Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 I can understand wanting the original finish if you're a stickler for detail, even though swastikas are beyond ghey.However, why did you go to that much trouble, only to use a different neck and headstock shape? So much for adherence to detail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigdaddyd Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 The glorification of death squads and madmen that oversaw the deaths of a few million people is perpetrated by people who wish to glorify it, not a symbol. The nazi symbol was a symbol of a political party that happened to have a regime that presided over the slaughter of a lot of Jews AND others. By taking the focus off of the actual people that perpetrated the atrocities and those who glorify it by attributing it to a symbol disrespects the memories of the people killed. The killers had names. So, if McCain gets in and becomes a genocidal maniac, will the Republican Elephant be as taboo as the schwastika?Should it? Not to mention, my grandparents and uncles were members of the Nazi party. You know what? They had no idea the atrocities were happening. It is like our country is with the CIA. We have no idea what they do right now. The fact that you and others make a blanket assessment of the people who belonged to this party by over demonizing the symbol, is a disrespect to my family,as well as being highly predjucicial if not racist (Yes, the definition applies to ALL races, not just a select few.) Persecute NAMES not SYMBOLS. BTW, why didn't they take the bomb symbols off of the guitar? Each one signifies a significant bombing. We cant pick and choose, either. No offense, but if your relatives were members of the Nazi party and didn't know what was going on, they were either stupid, in denial, or lying to you. It is a shame that you feel it necessary to even bring it up as a defense. It almost makes the opposite point. So many deaths and members of the party responbile were unaware, and oh, here is a guitar symbolizing the event...rock on. I don't know what is sadder, the op, or the fact the you use this is your defense of him. Sort of like saying, my family is in the Klan, but they thought the meetings were for talk about bed linens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FrontEndLoader Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 I can understand wanting the original finish if you're a stickler for detail, even though swastikas are beyond ghey. However, why did you go to that much trouble, only to use a different neck and headstock shape? So much for adherence to detail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glenecho Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 By taking the focus off of the actual people that perpetrated the atrocities and those who glorify it by attributing it to a symbol disrespects the memories of the people killed. The killers had names. Time erases everything, and eventually the swastika will go back to meaning little or nothing, or be forgotten altogether. I don't doubt the Romans or Napoleon or any other conquering force used symbols as well but we are so many generations removed from their victims they are no longer considered offensive. However, speaking as someone who was raised a Jew, I can tell you that the phrase "too soon" still applies here. The swastika, to people like my mother or her brother, signifies the mass killing of many of her relatives and friends. I'm too many generations removed from the Holocaust to find the swastika to be instantly offensive, so to me it isn't. But again, even though it happened many year ago, many many people out there are sickened by the appearance of a swastika and for very good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kenny Powers Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I can understand wanting the original finish if you're a stickler for detail, even though swastikas are beyond ghey. However, why did you go to that much trouble, only to use a different neck and headstock shape? So much for adherence to detail... buwahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ConcreteVamphyr Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I personally find this...http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Dean-Dimebag-Dixie-Rebel-Electric-Guitar-with-Case?sku=512928FAR more offensive, incidiary, and completely out of context than this guitar with authentic markings representing a fighter plane that was german air combat in WW2.... really, (GOD forbid!) the actual markings of a plane specific to that era being represented artistically. And referring to another poster, would it be out of line in a guitar stand next to a P-51 Mustang guitar? of Spitfire guitar? Don't think so... all context. Now tha brutha standing next to me while you play Cemetary Gate's on that Cracker special...Well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hvymtl939 Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I personally find this... http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Dean-Dimebag-Dixie-Rebel-Electric-Guitar-with-Case?sku=512928FAR more offensive, incidiary, and completely out of context than this guitar with authentic markings representing a fighter plane that was german air combat in WW2.... really, (GOD forbid!) the actual markings of a plane specific to that era being represented artistically. And referring to another poster, would it be out of line in a guitar stand next to a P-51 Mustang guitar? of Spitfire guitar? Don't think so... all context. Now tha brutha standing next to me while you play Cemetary Gate's on that Cracker special... Well... And I present to you my avatar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FrontEndLoader Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Dean-Dimebag-Dixie-Rebel-Electric-Guitar-with-Case?sku=512928 I object to that thing cause its hideous, even for a Dimebag model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm wondering why this wasn't such a big deal in the 80s when people were sporting these guitars? I guess the rise of our politically "correct" culture swing? Personally, I'm not gonna go sporting a swastika/nazi design on my guitars. But some of the metal guys in Tampa back in the early days of death metal were sporting that, and much much more back then. I just don't remember ever hearing anyone get riled up over those guitars back then. It was indeed a horrible event in human history, and one that shouldn't be celebrated. And I don't think that the OP who built the guitar was trying to do that. It was a cool guitar finish, just like all the "Rising Sun" kamakazi guitars Jackson did, as well as quite a few fighter jet, tank, submarine, and other military inspired finishes of various world war II themes. Is it any worse than Zakk's REBEL FLAG Les Paul???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ferdinandstrat Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm wondering why this wasn't such a big deal in the 80s when people were sporting these guitars?I guess the rise of our politically "correct" culture swing?Personally, I'm not gonna go sporting a swastika/nazi design on my guitars. But some of the metal guys in Tampa back in the early days of death metal were sporting that, and much much more back then.I just don't remember ever hearing anyone get riled up over those guitars back then.It was indeed a horrible event in human history, and one that shouldn't be celebrated. And I don't think that the OP who built the guitar was trying to do that. It was a cool guitar finish, just like all the "Rising Sun" kamakazi guitars Jackson did, as well as quite a few fighter jet, tank, submarine, and other military inspired finishes of various world war II themes.Is it any worse than Zakk's REBEL FLAG Les Paul???? Funny thing is that Chuck Schuldiner is Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StoneM Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I just wanna know where he got the neck and how much it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FrontEndLoader Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm wondering why this wasn't such a big deal in the 80s when people were sporting these guitars?I guess the rise of our politically "correct" culture swing?Personally, I'm not gonna go sporting a swastika/nazi design on my guitars. But some of the metal guys in Tampa back in the early days of death metal were sporting that, and much much more back then.I just don't remember ever hearing anyone get riled up over those guitars back then.It was indeed a horrible event in human history, and one that shouldn't be celebrated. And I don't think that the OP who built the guitar was trying to do that. It was a cool guitar finish, just like all the "Rising Sun" kamakazi guitars Jackson did, as well as quite a few fighter jet, tank, submarine, and other military inspired finishes of various world war II themes.Is it any worse than Zakk's REBEL FLAG Les Paul???? I would have been offended, not because of the connotations, but because at that time they still made production guitars with crackle finishes and cool {censored} like that. Play them gangstas instead of military themed ones (which I'm not a fan of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigdaddyd Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5ththrax Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Was it REALLY necessary to put the symbol on there? Unless the purpose was to offend people, i don't see the need for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mynameistaken Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Heil Charvel! Rawkin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Volitan Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 A bit of backround here, just in case anyone missed it. Back in the day, a cat named Amir Derakh played this guitar in Rough Cutt. A while back, a dealer placed a Charvel order for a 4 piece "Desert Fox" LTD run based on that guitar. The order was accepted and everything was going as normal. Then, the dealer posted pics of the guitars before they were shipped in order to help sell them. Well, the pics caused a {censored}storm on a certain forum. All sorts of crazy things were said, including someone hoping that some lunatic out there would firebomb the dealer that placed the order for such an obscene guitar. Well, the folks at FMIC caught wind of this and recalled the guitars and had them refinished, so as not to offend anyone. I thought that it was lame to cave in to a couple whiners on the internet. I mean, they can have boob guitars and satanic guitars and rotting corpse uncle sam guitars, but not a finish they had done in the past??? I really dug the thing the way it was originally, and wanted one. Piss on the watered down politically correct version. I went and placed an order for a "Charvel" body and neck. Shipped the body out for paint and while I waited... Picked up some lightly used Duncan pickups in TGP Classifieds. Found some old, minty Schaller Mini tuners (They say made in W Germany)that were stupid cheap Went with a new Floyd as you only save about $30 on a used one in good shape. Rest of the parts came from stew-mac and guitarpartsresource. Charvel logo came from the bay I had a neck plate made that I think is quite cheeky Throw it all together and you get this. Specs: San Dimas Charvel Body Handed: Right Handed Wood Type: 2 PC Mahogany - Neck Pocket Style: 2-1/4 (Angled, Floyd Style) - Neck Pickup: Humbucker Middle Pickup: None Bridge Pickup: Humbucker Bridge Style Rout: Flush Mount Floyd Rose Control Cavity Type: Rear Charvel Style - Jack Hole Size and Location: Side 7/8 Use with Rear Conrtol Top Arm Contour: Standard Charvel Style Rear Tummy Contour: Standard Charvel Style Corner Radius: 3/8 Charvel Style Additional Options: Drill Neck Mounting Holes 4 Bolt Floyd Bushing Style Mounting Holes The body weighed a whopping 3lbs 13.9 oz on the scale at the post office. San Dimas Charvel Neck Handed: Right Handed Nut Style: Floyd Rose Shelf - Neck Wood: Flame Maple Premium Grade - Fingerboard Wood: Black Ebony - Number of Frets: 22 Fret with Finger Board Extention Finger Board Radius: Compound 12-16 - Finger Board Inlay: Mother Of Pearl - Side Markers: Mother Of Pearl - Fret Size and Type: Jumbo 6100 (.110 Wide X .055 Tall) Tuner Hole Size: Standard 10 mm Gotoh / Sperzel / Shaller Nut Width: 1-11/16 Heel Type and Size: Strat Heel 2-1/4 Truss Rod Option: Dual Acting Adjust at Heel Neck Profile: Custom Thin C .750 At First Fret .880 12th Finish: Clear satin nitrocellulose lacquer back and head stock Additional Options: Standard Semi Rolled Finger Board Edges Narrow 12th Dots Spacing Post 1964 and Charvel Duncan JB and 59N, Original Floyd Rose, Schaller tuners, Switchcraft 3 way switch, push pull coil splitting volume, Dunlop strap locks. Right now, it needs a fret dress. The frets are just a tad worse than the new Charvel customs I played at a couple shops. That's to say sub-par. I have it set up with 10s and tuned down 1/2 step. I've been playing Charvel and Jackson Soloist neck thrus forever and the neck carve is pretty close. I'm not used to 22 frets and the heel though. It takes a minor adjustment for me. I lowerd the position of the volume as compared to the "real Charvels". It would get in my way if it was any higher. Only been playing it a couple days now, but so far, I'm diggin it. Being my first build, I did learn a couple things. Drill your holes for your controls plenty big. They get smaller with paint and clear. I don't think I would pay for the flame maple or the satin finished neck again. Just go quartersawn. I'd feel comfortable sprayig reranch nitro laquer now. I sprayed over the logo with reranch clear and it came out plenty good. I'd never say pro quality, but I can't tell the difference. The Charvels sold for stupid $$$ I saved a {censored}load and got equal quality, the finish and the specs I wanted, so I'm happy. I'm looking forward to another project. And no, I'm not a Nazi. I just play one on the internet. It's a nice guitar but it's kinda lame that you're opting for the swastika version just to be controversial...the swastika doesn't really have an effect of the guitar one way or another, why would you want it on there instead of the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RMS Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 I'm wondering why this wasn't such a big deal in the 80s when people were sporting these guitars? I guess the rise of our politically "correct" culture swing? I wondered that too, and some of it is definitely the political correctness culture. Some of it though was the lack of internet for people in their basements to blow things completely out of proportion. Despite some of the internet big guys "you'd get beat up taking this to a club", the real truth is that anyone who even noticed the swastika would be think "cool paint job" or "camo paint jobs are so 80's", not "this guy must be a closet nazi". It probably wouldn't even register there since they don't have the context of seeing the before and after pics that we did.Now, if it was a bright red guitar with a huge swastika across it, then it could seriously be considered some sort of statement - most likely some general rebellious one, but maybe "Hitler was a cool dude!" or similar. Personally, I'm not gonna go sporting a swastika/nazi design on my guitars. But some of the metal guys in Tampa back in the early days of death metal were sporting that, and much much more back then. I just don't remember ever hearing anyone get riled up over those guitars back then. It was indeed a horrible event in human history, and one that shouldn't be celebrated. And I don't think that the OP who built the guitar was trying to do that. It was a cool guitar finish, just like all the "Rising Sun" kamakazi guitars Jackson did, as well as quite a few fighter jet, tank, submarine, and other military inspired finishes of various world war II themes. Is it any worse than Zakk's REBEL FLAG Les Paul???? Agree. The Rebel Flag is much more in your face and obviously a statement beyond just being a cool paint job. Btw, I love old Charvels and own several, but ironically I never liked owning the paint jobs and just have solid colored ones. (I like the paint jobs, including this one, but they just aren't "me" to play.) However, I don't find it offensive if someone else slaps some symbols on there. Without reference, I'm not about to assume what they mean to that person.One historical note in this thread: yes, it was perfectly possible, and quite common, to be a member of the Nazi party and to not know anything about the death camps or other atrocities. It was a big political party with a lot of members who were only interested in advancing their own personal interests (or maybe even patriotically advancing the country's interests - which the Nazi's undoubtedly did pre-war), much like many Republicans and Democrats in the US. Everyone certainly knew about relocations and other clearly discriminatory actions against certain groups (not limited to Jews, though they were the largest single group). In some cases, it may have taken some level of willful ignorance, but this is very easy to come by in modern America let alone in the paranoid world of a dictatorship (this is a well documented phenomenon in all dictatorships btw). History is very cool, but it's even better when you start looking at things as they really were rather than trying to pigeon hold everything into nice little boxes...it's also a hell of a lot more complex then too! That's enough rambling off topic for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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