How does Production Quality or Arrangement affect your opinion of a song?

[Chordptrn]

Just wondering how much you consider the production and/or arrangement when you listen to a song.

 

Would a simple guitar/vocal or piano/vocal arrangement be sufficient to get the song across?

 

I've heard some pretty cool songs here with simple arrangements and other cool songs with what seems like full blown studio production.

 

Does the ability to produce a radio quality song affect your opinion of a song?

 

I've heard that (some) labels pretty much require you to be able to produce a radio ready song now. Since home recording has evolved/gotten cheaper is it to be expected?

[kurdy]

I'd say a simple guitar/vocal demo generally allows me to appreciate the craft of the song more, if it has good melody and lyrics. That said, if it's a crappy or mediocre song, lack of production only makes it more apparent. It's got to be a good song for it to work. Can't say anything about what the labels expect, because I don't really know.

[Lee Knight]

That's like asking, "How does the quality of the framing effect your opinion of a houses blueprints and design?" You would hope that if you've found your dream home, the one that seems as though it were designed for you alone, it would've been constructed well. And that any embellishments the finish carpenter added were in line with the heart of its original design.

 

Sometimes you hit gold and it all falls into place. Everybody's inspired and thinking on the same page. The crown molding looks like part of the design. It actually brings light to how great the house's design really is. That's some good finish carpentry.

 

But if the blueprints are gold and the windows are cheap and miss the mark style wise. Hey, great design but I'm not buying this one.

 

Know what I mean?

[blue2blue]

Just wondering how much you consider the production and/or arrangement when you listen to a song. Would a simple guitar/vocal or piano/vocal arrangement be sufficient to get the song across? I've heard some pretty cool songs here with simple arrangements and other cool songs with what seems like full blown studio production. Does the ability to produce a radio quality song affect your opinion of a song? I've heard that (some) labels pretty much require you to be able to produce a radio ready song now. Since home recording has evolved/gotten cheaper is it to be expected?

 

They don't affect my appreciation of the quality of the songwriting/song -- but, of course, it can affect my enjoyment of same. And, well, let's face it, having someone who can sing a song's lyrics gracefully on the mark will definitely affect one's understanding of the song.

 

 

And, sadly, you are right that it is an increasingly accepted truism that those buying songs to place on pop and Nashville pop artists' albums expect to hear finished productions with all hooks and embellishments in place -- apparently so that the lawyers who run the business and now act as managers, a&r men and, even, producers, don't have to stretch their scheming, bottom-line oriented little brains trying to imagine anything...

 

 

Pretty soon you'll probably have to have a $100,000 vid to put over your poor little song placement...

[blue2blue]

That's like asking, "How does the quality of the framing effect your opinion of a houses blueprints and design?" You would hope that if you've found your dream home, the one that seems as though it were designed for you alone, it would've been constructed well. And that any embellishments the finish carpenter added were in line with the heart of its original design. Sometimes you hit gold and it all falls into place. Everybody's inspired and thinking on the same page. The crown molding looks like part of the design. It actually brings light to how great the house's design really is. That's some good finish carpentry. But if the blueprints are gold and the windows are cheap and miss the mark style wise. Hey, great design but I'm not buying this one. Know what I mean?

 

Using this lull in real estate values to do some building, Lee?

[Johnny-Boy]

I find that so often, a song is judged by the singing.

 

John:cool:

[ido1957]

A simple (but tasty) arrangement can be good enough to convey quality songwriting. Production can be simple too but you would hope for clean recording and a good delivery so as to not taint the listener.

 

A couple of examples...there's probably hundreds out there....

 

- Yesterday - Beatles

- Give Me One Reason to Stay Here - Tracy Chapman

- Cat Stevens'

- James Taylor

[Lee Knight]

Picture the song Be My Baby...

 

Be my, be my baby (be my little baby)

 

Oh, oh oh-oh-oh

 

All that Ronette's stuff and Phil Spector throwing in 2 pianos and a crash of a snare hit like Jesus's 2nd coming. WOW!!!

 

But I can totally picture Tom Waits singing it on an out of tune archtop guitar and bringing me to tears. So whatever the accompaniment, simple or over the top, it's got to be right. It's your job to figure what the "right" is too.

[Lee Knight]

Using this lull in real estate values to do some building, Lee?

 

 

That would be nice but no... I might wear "office clothes" in the day but I'm crawling along like the rest of us.

[wwwjd]

PERSONALLY [and I can't stress that enough], I can't STAND listening to unfinished or unproduced tracks. So, I finish everything to a radio ready level.

that said...

The latest song competition I'm entering does not care about production quality AT ALL. They will ONLY be judging on the merits of the things making up the song. The production can ALWAYS be BOUGHT later.

[Johnny-Boy]

 

, I can't STAND listening to unfinished or unproduced tracks. So, I finish everything to a radio ready level. that said... The latest song competition I'm entering does not care about production quality AT ALL. They will ONLY be judging on the merits of the things making up the song. The production can ALWAYS be BOUGHT later.

 

 

I hope it's not the "American Idol" songwriting contest.

 

Best, John:cool:

[Lee Knight]

 

, I can't STAND listening to unfinished or unproduced tracks. So, I finish everything to a radio ready level. that said... The latest song competition I'm entering does not care about production quality AT ALL. They will ONLY be judging on the merits of the things making up the song. The production can ALWAYS be BOUGHT later.

 

 

Well...

 

I watched an interview with the lead singer from Switchfoot last night taken from a Writer's Symposium at UCSD. In order to illustrate a point he'd pick up his Taylor and... demonstrate. Their albums have wonderful production. One of my production heros (John Fields) has done some of their stuff, they can do radio.

 

And yet, his illustration of a concept, had a certain produced quality about it. With just his Taylor. How's that? Well, for starters, he writes no excuses, frickin' great tunes with lyrics to match. He's not a particularly good singer but... he knows how to communicate. So in effect, he's producing. He's packaging as he goes.

 

the same song in the studio has strings, slide, power chords...

 

The accompaniment needs to be right.

[kennychaffin]

I hope it's not the "American Idol" songwriting contest. Best, John:cool:

 

[FireWithin]

well, arrangement has as much....or more to due with the individual riffs....so, I'd say it effects it greatly!

[wwwjd]

 

I hope it's not the "American Idol" songwriting contest. Best, John:cool:

 

 

heh heh... no way. Maybe if I really SUCKED I'd enter that --- seems that's how they make the most money... it's the DISC MAKERS something something competition and usually you get great feedback from TAXI or others A&R peoples http://www.discmakers.com/imws/

[myredshoes]

I like to hear simple arraingements. I'm pretty much invested in simple arraingements at this point. Everyone else should like simple arraingements too.

 

 

Seriously, the vocal out front and easily understood, the basic chords or melody, this is the song.

 

A good song, even a dead simple one like Dismantle Me, is just as good with one voice and one acoustic guitar as it is accompanied and produced. It may well be strongest in its simplest form.

 

You make me think of Robert Johnson. Command of the instrument, command of the voice, and a good song. What else do you want?

[King_For_A_Day]

Expensive or extensive production on a piece of {censored} song = "polishing a turd"

 

If it doesn't ring true with a simply produced demo, the George Martin treatment or Phil Spector arrangement doesn't help for me.

 

Robert Johnson is a great example.

 

That said, the average music listener today doesn't even know how to listen to a song without a kitchen sink production, IMO. They wouldn't know a great song if it bit them on the ear. If it doesn't have Beyonce warbling over the "freshest beat" it sux.

 

Flock you, average listener!

[DeveryHarper]

I'm not going to judge someone else's production in a negative way. I will tell someone if there is room for improvement, though. Most always you can tell what the song is about without all the bells and whistles.

[myredshoes]

I guess you can tart up a good song.

 

I was thinking of demos, simply presenting the song.

 

When it comes to average listeners, I don't know.

 

Maybe got to decide if you want to sound true to your vision or you want to be heard.

 

 

Maybe you're flocked.

[Chicken Monkey]

Back when I thought I'd be able to achieve authenticity, I listened to a lot of country blues. Nowadays, I like to think I can listen through bad production, or at least underproduction.

[eeglug]

It depends on the song. Some work in a sparse arrangement, others don't at all. I think it's wrong to dismiss a song out of hand because it doesn't seem to work with an acoustic and voice only. I would say that more than half of the rough demos that I've heard by famous artists suck eggs - I just don't hear what the songwriter hears in them. I'm talking about people like John Lennon, Elvis Costello, David Bowie...

[blue2blue]

A song that sounds good on an acoustic guitar or with a simple piano arrangement will tend to sound good with any good arrangement.

 

But there are plenty of cool tracks that aren't really much of anything in terms of songwriting.

 

One of my favorite of my own instrumentals started out as an alternate (not alt rock, mind you, heaven forfend ... ) version -- but the vocals and the guitar really, really sucked. I ended up making a dub track out of it... it was a modified 16 bar blues kind of thing. But the main feature of the song, compositionally, is where it just goes into 16 bars of the same basic drum beat and the topside percussion does a heavily layered mutant robo samba line kind of thing. If I were to do the instrumental version on an acoustic guitar it would be extraordinarly boring.

[rsadasiv]

 

Just wondering how much you consider the production and/or arrangement when you listen to a song.

 

Production is the first thing I hear. If it doesn't sound good I will definitely comment on it. I try and consider arrangement and performance in the context of the song, but to me production and engineering are standard metrics.

 

 

Would a simple guitar/vocal or piano/vocal arrangement be sufficient to get the song across?

 

Depends on the song and the performer. However, with the exception of serious arrangement oversights (ie - a funk song with no bass) I won't diss things which aren't there, so I will almost always prefer a two part arrangement where both instruments are well played to a eight part arrangement where only seven instruments are well played.

 

 

I've heard some pretty cool songs here with simple arrangements and other cool songs with what seems like full blown studio production. Does the ability to produce a radio quality song affect your opinion of a song?

 

My experience is that if the production stinks the song probably stinks too. Then again, I assume that if a piece of text is illegible or riddled with spelling and punctuation errors the content is probably awful as well.

 

 

I've heard that (some) labels pretty much require you to be able to produce a radio ready song now. Since home recording has evolved/gotten cheaper is it to be expected?

 

Absolutely. The bar has been raised. In this day and age there is no excuse for a crappy sounding recording, demo or otherwise.

[WRGKMC]

A real song writer writes music in his head much the same way an author writes a story.

In the old days music was notated to paper. We have the luxary of writing to disk now.

The performance of the written score deals with artistic talent.

The recording of a song deals with the art of recording engineering.

Making money off the music deals with Advertising and Promotion of a good product weather it be the performer(Musician), performers works(His Record) or the author of the song (The song its self).

I think theres a lot of blurring of the actual art of writing.

A good story is a good story. It touches most people who hear it in different ways. How the music is deliverd is another story. Even the best bands have stinkers. I wouldnt mind being successful at any one of the above, But none can exist without the other.