Members marshallnoise Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Again, how would allowing homosexuals to marry affect you? It wouldn't. However your narrow-minded views on the institution of marriage are affecting others. I'm not gay by the way, but it's apparent in your language that you think only a gay person could care about gay marriage or gay rights.Ok, so by understanding that the definition of marriage as being a religious formally recognized union of a man and woman, I am somehow narrow minded. I hope you see you stupid you look. There is no view to have than marriage is between a man and a woman. The debate has been about rewriting the definition of what marriage is. As far as someone having feelings for someone else's plight, I understand that. You certainly can fight this fight for them if you want, however, in this particular instance, I think its a foolish fight. Gays have 90% of the rights that married couples have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kidbs Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Ok, so by understanding that the definition of marriage as being a religious formally recognized union of a man and woman, I am somehow narrow minded. I hope you see you stupid you look. There is no view to have than marriage is between a man and a woman. The debate has been about rewriting the definition of what marriage is. As far as someone having feelings for someone else's plight, I understand that. You certainly can fight this fight for them if you want, however, in this particular instance, I think its a foolish fight. Gays have 90% of the rights that married couples have. I look stupid? Check your grammar before you say that :poke:. How about those of us who don't believe in any god or recognize religion as a whole? Does it mean that we shouldn't get married either? Marriage predates modern religion btw so don't think your christian views dictate what marriage actually means to everyone else.Regardless, this has gotten off-topic and my original point was that there is nothing uncommon about people boycotting or protesting things that they don't agree with, so I don't see why people think it's so crazy that people would boycott Dano effects or Wholefoods. Only people who disagree with those people's views are the ones that think it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sheik_Yerbouti Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Ok, so by understanding that the definition of marriage as being a religious formally recognized union of a man and woman, I am somehow narrow minded. I hope you see you stupid you look. There is no view to have than marriage is between a man and a woman. The debate has been about rewriting the definition of what marriage is. As far as someone having feelings for someone else's plight, I understand that. You certainly can fight this fight for them if you want, however, in this particular instance, I think its a foolish fight. Gays have 90% of the rights that married couples have. OK, so explain for me in detail then how two gay guys wanting to get married is supposed to threaten your marriage experience unless it's simply just picking at your bigoted intolerance? Are YOU going to hell if gay marriage is legalized? I thought that was supposed to be between God and the individuals in question and that it wasn't supposed to be your place to judge?! Funny how selectively some people choose to uphold the fundamental tenets of the Bible at times, ain't it?!The ONLY reason anyone would hold that opinion other than sheer homophobia (and you know what they say about that!) is because they're actively trying to FORCE their religious views down the throats of those who disagree with them. This just in, the Spanish Inquisition has been over for a few hundred years now, turn the page already, will ya Pope Lucius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 OK, so explain for me in detail then how two gay guys wanting to get married is supposed to threaten your marriage experience unless it's simply just picking at your bigoted intolerance? Are YOU going to hell if gay marriage is legalized? I thought that was supposed to be between God and the individuals in question and that it wasn't supposed to be your place to judge?! Funny how selectively some people choose to uphold the fundamental tenets of the Bible at times, ain't it?!The ONLY reason anyone would hold that opinion other than sheer homophobia (and you know what they say about that!) is because they're actively trying to FORCE their religious views down the throats of those who disagree with them. This just in, the Spanish Inquisition has been over for a few hundred years now, turn the page already, will ya Pope Lucius? its not a religious thing for me. its all about the definition of two plus two still having the outcome of four. a marriage between two dudes is not the same as a marriage between a man and woman for a variety of reasons. neither one is better than the other but they are different. i dont think you should call two thing that arent even similar, the same. i am not going to take your bait and get into a pissing match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pir Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Funny how selectively some people choose to uphold the fundamental tenets of the Bible at times, ain't it?! AMEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sheik_Yerbouti Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 its not a religious thing for me. its all about the definition of two plus two still having the outcome of four. a marriage between two dudes is not the same as a marriage between a man and woman for a variety of reasons. neither one is better than the other but they are different. i dont think you should call two thing that arent even similar, the same. i am not going to take your bait and get into a pissing match.Well I didn't really intend for it to be a pissing match. I'm just seriously trying to understand why someone would feel compelled to inflict their version of morality on total strangers who have never done anything to hurt or inflict their own moral code onto them. I guess some mysteries will just never be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Because marriage has been between a man and a woman since the dawn of time. Just admit that you want to force your views on everyone else and force them to accept them without question. Funny how few Christians know their own faith's history: http://lippard.blogspot.com/2009/05/same-sex-marriage-in-christian-history.html A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine's Monastery on Mt. Sinai in Israel. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Funny how few Christians know their own faith's history: http://lippard.blogspot.com/2009/05/same-sex-marriage-in-christian-history.htmlMany Ancient and current cultures have had social mechanisms for accepting LGBT folk positively, and evidence of same sex coupling (and laws and protections for those relationships throughout history) being not only accepted but commonplace is right there for anyone with an open mind. Allowing same sex marriages doesn't force a thing on anyone. NOT allowing same sex marriages does. Acceptance of LGBT relationships is part of our progress as human beings. It is simply not your right to determine the validity of these relationships.Look, at the heart of it all, I understand that people want things to be the way they always were, so they feel safe, so they feel like they understand the way the world works. This is why all these arguments are so inane - you really don't have any real reason to feel the way you do about health care, Unions, LGBTQ people, Israel, any of it. everything we're seeing is a reaction to a world that is changing, and this frightens people. They feel unmoored, adrift, uncertain, and unsure. What all the screaming about is fear. The world no longer works the way you want it to. I get that. The great tragedy of 9/11 was that the myth of Oz all great and powerful fell along with those towers. The only way Bush felt he could restore that myth was to have us focus on jingoistic rage - we weren't beaten, we were going to Onward Christian Soldiers those Moors and fight like Superman, for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. The American Way from 1953.And now that people have had almost a decade since that terrifying time to get some sense of normalcy back - and have enjoyed the vicarious feeling of power that King George and his Court gave his supporters (much like people feeling like they won the Superbowl when their team wins), they don't want this to ever change again, because CHANGE IS SCARY, more so than it was 15 years ago. It's a safe, comforting thought - "Look, let's just keep everything right the way it was when I understood everything, and I was top of the food chain." But that's not the way it goes. Sorry. And I truly am. It's no fun to feel like you have to drag half the country out of the stone age, constantly rebutting the same lies and absurdities again and again and again and again to people that don't give a {censored} about reason, logic, or truth. But it can't be fun to have your entire worldview so succinctly dismantled either. It has to suck seeing things you feel to be true - that you believe without reason, the way you love a child, or help old ladies across the street, who needs a reason to do that? - things that you've attached your sense of safety and grounding on in uncertain times.It's not the specific arguments that are being debated here. Honestly, the intellectual victory has been won long ago. The weight of evidence in these matters is pretty clear cut. It's the emotional argument with people who just want {censored} to be all "happily ever after", this safe, static, suburban utopia where America Uber Alles, the enemies are clear and the side of Right is always us and it is always victorious that this has become. And honestly, I don't blame anyone for feeling that way. Life is {censored}ing hard enough without changing {censored} in big scary ways all the gorram time. "My health care is OK, why do you have to {censored} with it? My marriage is fine, why do you have to {censored} with it? My church, my school, my future is all right, why do you have to {censored} with it?"If you {censored} with it, TOWERS WILL FALL. I get that. And I understand that fear right in the middle of the gut. Even writing that makes me a little sick. But the problem is that if we DON'T change {censored}, more towers will fall. Unions, Zionists, commies, niggers, wetbacks, faggots, feminazis, Christofascists, wingnuts, it's all part of the same cycle, and they are not the enemy - they are all Americans like we are. What we need to come to grips with is our fear. We have to believe we are strong enough to face the challenges of change. That we are strong enough to let go of our poisonous past and move forward. And that it'll be OK. People have to trust that we can adapt, and we can give power to the powerless, and a voice to the voiceless and it'll be OK. We have to stop feeding the worst in us and start becoming the best in us. And that means not whining about giving up the advantages and ruling class status that you've enjoyed since the founding of this country.Take a Bible story as a parable for our time: Christ came not to destroy the Pharisees, but to save them from their own corruption. They reacted with the same fear, the same safety in tradition, the same sophistry and ultimately justified their role in giving up Christ, who was then nailed to a cross. The question is, will we make the same mistake? Good post. I've always thought they just need to completely divorce the religious aspect of marriage from the legal and civil aspect. That way everyone who wants to tie themselves to someone legally and civilly can do so without the stigma of a non-platonic relationship. For instance... Say my sister and I both had kids but were both unmarried. We get along great and want to buy a house together and help with the raising of each others kids. No reason we shouldn't have a civil union that grants all the legal and financial benefits of a marriage but have it freely understood that while we co-habitate it's a platonic relationship. Same for two women who are neighbors and who's husbands are both killed in Iraq. Or two senior citizens who's husbands have died and want to pool their resources. You make the legal and civil contract completely secular and completely devoid of any implication of relationship. Then... If people want to get married they do it in their church and the government doesn't have anything to do with it. Just them, their pastor and God, just the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted August 16, 2009 Members Share Posted August 16, 2009 Funny how few Christians know their own faith's history: http://lippard.blogspot.com/2009/05/same-sex-marriage-in-christian-history.htmlMany Ancient and current cultures have had social mechanisms for accepting LGBT folk positively, and evidence of same sex coupling (and laws and protections for those relationships throughout history) being not only accepted but commonplace is right there for anyone with an open mind. Allowing same sex marriages doesn't force a thing on anyone. NOT allowing same sex marriages does. Acceptance of LGBT relationships is part of our progress as human beings. It is simply not your right to determine the validity of these relationships. Look, at the heart of it all, I understand that people want things to be the way they always were, so they feel safe, so they feel like they understand the way the world works. This is why all these arguments are so inane - you really don't have any real reason to feel the way you do about health care, Unions, LGBTQ people, Israel, any of it. everything we're seeing is a reaction to a world that is changing, and this frightens people. They feel unmoored, adrift, uncertain, and unsure. What all the screaming about is fear. The world no longer works the way you want it to. I get that. The great tragedy of 9/11 was that the myth of Oz all great and powerful fell along with those towers. The only way Bush felt he could restore that myth was to have us focus on jingoistic rage - we weren't beaten, we were going to Onward Christian Soldiers those Moors and fight like Superman, for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. The American Way from 1953. And now that people have had almost a decade since that terrifying time to get some sense of normalcy back - and have enjoyed the vicarious feeling of power that King George and his Court gave his supporters (much like people feeling like they won the Superbowl when their team wins), they don't want this to ever change again, because CHANGE IS SCARY, more so than it was 15 years ago. It's a safe, comforting thought - "Look, let's just keep everything right the way it was when I understood everything, and I was top of the food chain." But that's not the way it goes. Sorry. And I truly am. It's no fun to feel like you have to drag half the country out of the stone age, constantly rebutting the same lies and absurdities again and again and again and again to people that don't give a {censored} about reason, logic, or truth. But it can't be fun to have your entire worldview so succinctly dismantled either. It has to suck seeing things you feel to be true - that you believe without reason, the way you love a child, or help old ladies across the street, who needs a reason to do that? - things that you've attached your sense of safety and grounding on in uncertain times. It's not the specific arguments that are being debated here. Honestly, the intellectual victory has been won long ago. The weight of evidence in these matters is pretty clear cut. It's the emotional argument with people who just want {censored} to be all "happily ever after", this safe, static, suburban utopia where America Uber Alles, the enemies are clear and the side of Right is always us and it is always victorious that this has become. And honestly, I don't blame anyone for feeling that way. Life is {censored}ing hard enough without changing {censored} in big scary ways all the gorram time. "My health care is OK, why do you have to {censored} with it? My marriage is fine, why do you have to {censored} with it? My church, my school, my future is all right, why do you have to {censored} with it?" If you {censored} with it, TOWERS WILL FALL. I get that. And I understand that fear right in the middle of the gut. Even writing that makes me a little sick. But the problem is that if we DON'T change {censored}, more towers will fall. Unions, Zionists, commies, niggers, wetbacks, faggots, feminazis, Christofascists, wingnuts, it's all part of the same cycle, and they are not the enemy - they are all Americans like we are. What we need to come to grips with is our fear. We have to believe we are strong enough to face the challenges of change. That we are strong enough to let go of our poisonous past and move forward. And that it'll be OK. People have to trust that we can adapt, and we can give power to the powerless, and a voice to the voiceless and it'll be OK. We have to stop feeding the worst in us and start becoming the best in us. And that means not whining about giving up the advantages and ruling class status that you've enjoyed since the founding of this country. Take a Bible story as a parable for our time: Christ came not to destroy the Pharisees, but to save them from their own corruption. They reacted with the same fear, the same safety in tradition, the same sophistry and ultimately justified their role in giving up Christ, who was then nailed to a cross. The question is, will we make the same mistake? Way to go DeathMonkey. You use some guy's blog as a source for gay marriage in Christianity and then post it on here as if its theological fact. Even the first comment after that blog people were denouncing the article as less than truthful or realistic. Looking further, you would have to intentionally overlook some serious gaps in logic to arrive at the conclusion the article comes to. Spin as much as you want, as the bible speaks people would do, and try to delegitimize our faith. Those of us who believe the Word of God as the Word of God will not be shaken by half truths and twisting. Oh, and considering I did not bring my faith into this thread at all, I find it amazing you judge me and my motivations as such. I have clearly pointed out my definition has nothing to do with my faith or morality. Its a pure definition defense. If you want to argue with me on that, go ahead. But leave Christianity out of it since I have not brought it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iron Lotus Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 Whole foods ftl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -Juggernaut- Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 Old thread is REALLY old...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MLE Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 John Mackey (Whole Foods Market), an unusual case in that he does not take any alternative form of compensation either; in 2007, Mackey wrote, "I have reached a place in my life where I no longer want to work for money, but simply for the joy of the work itself and to better answer the call to service that I feel so clearly in my own heart."[10] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C-4 Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 Because anyone with a brain can figure out that Obama's health care plan can't be a good idea. Spending billions of dollars that have to come from somewhere. Senators shouting over citizens who want to learn the truth about the program.It would be one thing if whole foods didn't offer health insurance benefits. Sounds to me like they are possibly the best employer to be working for, if you've got to have that kind of job. Makes me shudder, thinking about working in service or retail industry again. What great health benefits their employees apparently have!It almost makes me embarrassed to admit I shop there. I don't want to be associated with that batch of losers. The current regime sucks out loud, and so do the whiners complaining about one person's views. {censored} them. Let them eat {censored} instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phishmonkey Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 I don't understand this taco schtick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmtnt Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 This is great news. Now I can shop there with less hassle since most of the whiners are busy boycotting. Tasty, clean food FTW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pamackie Posted July 29, 2010 Members Share Posted July 29, 2010 Holy thread necro, Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.