hypocracy of american politicians...why the middle east hates america.

[nakedzen]

 

 

 

o

[Hardvalve]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

See previous post.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

o

[Hardvalve]

 

 

 

LOL

[rushtallica]

 

 

 

IMO Nakedzen's correct this time. Every country has a history of violence at some point. But we (as a country) can't deny we've had a very negative impact on many people in the Middle East over the last century, dividing their lands and people, propping up dictators like Saddam, and only bringing them back down when it doesn't suit economic and other various interests (oil, heroin, control over various parts of the regions, etc...). Even if everything was as bad prior to our intervening as it is now, it doesn't preclude that we are a problem in that region. However, I also believe some good has and can come from our presence there.

[::fred::]

Yes, because the middle east was a veritable peace-loving, tolerant, bigot-free and non-violent collective utopia of forward-thinking, non-manipulative and completely non-aggressive pacifist hippies before the mean ol' USofA went and stuck their noses into it.

 

What a fine excuse to financially support opposing organizations, invade countries on the other side of the planet, overthrow their political regimes, establish control of their natural resources and (here comes the best part) HAVE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS KILLED IN THE PROCESS.

 

But the likes of you fail not only because you're too shortsighted to see beyond what the mass media tells you. You fail because you don't even care what happens to the country after you rape it. Just for {censored}s and giggles, check out who becomes the new government in Egypt, Lybia, etc - the very same Islamic Fundamentalists you once declared to be the root of evil.

 

Nothing changes. Only people die.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

IMO Nakedzen's correct this time. Every country has a history of violence at some point. But we (as a country) can't deny we've had a very negative impact on many people in the Middle East over the last century, dividing their lands and people, propping up dictators like Saddam, and only bringing them back down when it doesn't suit economic and other various interests (oil, heroin, control over various parts of the regions, etc...).

 

 

Not even saying that's not true. The part that people conveniently omit in their dogma-fueled fervor is that the US is a {censored}ing FAR cry from the only nation involved in doing everything you just mentioned, and most of the other nations doing it have a far worse track record when it comes to their own manipulations. Of course, I do realize that this isn't in keeping with the media-spun version of how they'd like for everyone to see things, and that most people only put as much time and effort into researching this stuff as it takes to satisfy their own viewpoints, carefully cherry-picking the facts that support their blind dogma fealty and conspicuously omitting/ignoring those that don't, which are in equally abundant supply for anyone who cares to look for them. The notion that the US is somehow solely or even close to it to blame for the current state of the middle east is {censored}ing laughable. You also cannot ignore the irrefutable FACT that this region has been and always will be the greatest hotbed of instability, conflict, violence, political machinations of ALL countries and the catalyst for brutal, racist/fanaticism-generated wars in the entire history of humanity, and for THOUSANDS of years before the US ever existed.

 

{censored}ing political correctness, how does it work?

[Miter Gauge]

Possibly because Russia and China make no statements that they are looking out for democracy and freedom? That's sorta the problem. Its not hypocritical when the Russians or Chinese do it whereas when we do, its completely hypocritical. Oh, and its pretty much dead wrong about no one complaining about Russia & China. Lots of countries have, especially in relation to Syria. However, since they sit on the UN security council, it pretty much means nobody can say boo to them. Sorta like the US when we decide to support horrible people. What's interesting is that in Africa, China IS using a somewhat peaceful approach. (SORTA....) They are building roads, schools, hospitals, businesses, etc. investing HEAVILY in Africa because they understand that's where manufacturing is going to move after China becomes too expensive. Are they probably propping up horrible people in the process? Oh, I'm sure of that, but its not for any political reasons, almost purely economic. We're being out capitalisted by the communists.

Very, very good point.

[rushtallica]

Not even saying that's not true. The part that people conveniently omit in their dogma-fueled fervor is that the US is a {censored}ing FAR cry from the only nation involved in doing everything you just mentioned, and most of the other nations doing it have a far worse track record when it comes to their own manipulations. Of course, I do realize that this isn't in keeping with the media-spun version of how they'd like for everyone to see things, and that most people only put as much time and effort into researching this stuff as it takes to satisfy their own viewpoints, carefully cherry-picking the facts that support their blind dogma fealty and conspicuously omitting/ignoring those that don't, which are in equally abundant supply for anyone who cares to look for them. The notion that the US is somehow solely or even close to it to blame for the current state of the middle east is {censored}ing laughable. You also cannot ignore the irrefutable FACT that this region has been and always will be the greatest hotbed of instability, violence, political machinations of ALL countries and brutal, racist/fanaticism-generated wars in the history of humanity, THOUSANDS of years before the US ever existed. {censored}ing political correctness, how does it work?

 

I hear you and don't disagree with any of this, either. I just have a feeling some might not see our intervening as having a bad impact on many innocent people there, though I do think we have done some good, as well).

[Miter Gauge]

 

What a fine excuse to financially support opposing organizations, invade countries on the other side of the planet, overthrow their political regimes, establish control of their natural resources and (here comes the best part) HAVE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS KILLED IN THE PROCESS. But the likes of you fail not only because you're too shortsighted to see beyond what the mass media tells you. You fail because you don't even care what happens to the country after you rape it. Just for {censored}s and giggles, check out who becomes the new government in Egypt, Lybia, etc - the very same Islamic Fundamentalists you once declared to be the root of evil. Nothing changes. Only people die.

 

 

Yeah, you are right your country has killed thousands of thousands of innocent people.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

What a fine excuse to financially support opposing organizations, invade countries on the other side of the planet, overthrow their political regimes, establish control of their natural resources and (here comes the best part) HAVE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS KILLED IN THE PROCESS. But the likes of you fail not only because you're too shortsighted to see beyond what the mass media tells you. You fail because you don't even care what happens to the country after you rape it. Just for {censored}s and giggles, check out who becomes the new government in Egypt, Lybia, etc - the very same Islamic Fundamentalists you once declared to be the root of evil. Nothing changes. Only people die.

 

 

Says the {censored}ing RUSSIAN. SPARE me, will ya? Do you REALLY want me to get into YOUR country's dark deeds? Didn't think so.

[rushtallica]

 

Yeah, you are right both of our countries have killed thousands of thousands of innocent people.

 

 

Fixed

[::fred::]

Says the {censored}ing RUSSIAN. SPARE me, will ya? Do you REALLY want me to get into YOUR country's dark deeds? Didn't think so.

 

LOL, this is what I was talking about earlier. If I come from Russia does that mean I'm not allowed to express my own opinion on things? HAHA. So much for your freedom of speech!

 

I have said it in every political thread that I posted in (cause I keep getting molested by the same trolls over and over): if you want to talk {censored} about my country, I will gladly join you in a dedicated thread about it The difference between me and you - I don't believe ANY government, including my own. So you can STFU, unless you have something actually meaningful to say.

 

If you're too primitive to understand what I said, I can chew it and put it in your mouth: yes, Russia is just as {censored}ed up. And I have no problem admitting it.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

LOL, this is what I was talking about earlier. If I come from Russia does that mean I'm not allowed to experess my own opinion on things? HAHA. So much for freedom of speech! I have said it in every political thread that I posted in: if you want to talk {censored} about my country, I will gladly join you in a dedicated thread about it The difference between me and you - I don't believe ANY government, including my own. So you can STFU, unless you have actually meaningful to say.

 

 

Where in the blue {censored} did I say that I "believe" in this government?! FUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuu... you could not possibly be any more wrong! The difference is that I don't believe in EITHER side of it, while a depressingly large number of other people in this thread are actually dumb/gullible/fanatical enough to believe that their side is somehow still worth believing in. Hell, if anything, I'm the one who's pointing out that NO one government is any better or "belief"-worthy than any other government to a roomful of ignorant dogma zealots who are trying to sell that somehow, going against anything even remotely resembling "logic", it's all the US's fault, and we're the only ones neck-deep in manipulating the situation. You wanna try to play "Pin The Blame"? GREAT! Let's play it, let's just make sure everyone gets their fair share of it, whattaya say?

[::fred::]

Where in the blue {censored} did I say that I "believe" in this government?! FUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuu... you could not possibly be any more wrong! The difference is that I don't believe in EITHER side of it, while a depressingly large number of other people in this thread are actually dumb/gullible/fanatical enough to believe that their side is somehow still worth believing in. Hell, if anything, I'm the one who's pointing out that NO one government is any better or "belief"-worthy than any other government to a roomful of ignorant dogma zealots who are trying to sell that somehow, going against anything even remotely resembling "logic", it's all the US's fault, and we're the only ones neck-deep in manipulating the situation. You wanna try to play "Pin The Blame"? GREAT! Let's play it, let's just make sure everyone gets their fair share of it, whattaya say?

I heard you now. I'm not saying it's US's fault. But try to stay on topic. This is not about fault, but about hypocrisy, isn't it? Freedom, democracy, peace, search for WMD (hey, did you guys ever find it in Iraq?) - all that translates into: I WILL RAPE YOU FOR OIL AND I DON'T GIVE A SINGLE {censored} ABOUT YOUR HUMAN RIGHTS.

 

 

Russia is not so much similar, btw. Whenever we decide to kill someone (ourselves included ), we just do it. There is no pompous "we come in peace, we bring you the light" {censored} behind it.

 

Not that it ultimately matters, agh.. {censored} all these superpowers, just {censored} them

[Stevetemp]

I heard you now. I'm not saying it's US's fault. But try to stay on topic. This is not about fault, but about hypocrisy, isn't it? Freedom, democracy, peace, search for WMD (hey, did you guys ever find it in Iraq?) - all that translates into: I WILL RAPE YOU FOR OIL AND I DON'T GIVE A SINGLE {censored} ABOUT YOUR HUMAN RIGHTS. Russia is not so much similar, btw. Whenever we decide to kill someone (ourselves included ), we just do it. There is no pompous "we come in peace, we bring you the light" {censored} behind it. Not that it ultimately matters, agh.. {censored} all these superpowers, just {censored} them

So where's the {censored}ing oil!?!?!?!?!



and:

[rushtallica]

 

So where's the {censored}ing oil!?!?!?!?!

 

 

When there is no more oil I don't think we'll be spending nearly as much time there.

[NeloAngelo]

hey, man...

 

 

we dropped nukes.

[Dolf]

Says the {censored}ing RUSSIAN. SPARE me, will ya? Do you REALLY want me to get into YOUR country's dark deeds? Didn't think so.

 

Dude, out of line.

 

I mean, your entire argument sucks, but still. Out of line.

[LaXu]

 

what makes us think that every country around the world actually WANTS democracy? considering that sharia law is actually preferred by most in the middle east tells us that we simply cannot understand what the people that live there want, and that we'd all be best served by keeping our noses out of it. all that said, i maintain that if the people want democracy, they should fight for it themselves. i also maintain that regardless of the system of government in place, there are always going to be people that are oppressed and not well served by that system.

 

 

It's funny (sad?) that the people did fight for democray in many Middle Eastern countries but now it seems that the people being propped to take over the positions the dictators left open are no better. In Egypt they've got the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power and their goal is to make sharia the law of the land. But then again this is really only a more extreme version of the religious candidates in the US presidential election whose main platform isn't what they're going to do about real issues but that they happen to be "devoted Christians". Somehow these people have lots of voters.

[Miter Gauge]

LOL, this is what I was talking about earlier. If I come from Russia does that mean I'm not allowed to express my own opinion on things? HAHA. So much for your freedom of speech! I have said it in every political thread that I posted in (cause I keep getting molested by the same trolls over and over): if you want to talk {censored} about my country, I will gladly join you in a dedicated thread about it The difference between me and you - I don't believe ANY government, including my own. So you can STFU, unless you have something actually meaningful to say. If you're too primitive to understand what I said, I can chew it and put it in your mouth: yes, Russia is just as {censored}ed up. And I have no problem admitting it.

If you are such a fan of freedom speech why do you criticize me for expressing my views? You tell me to start another tread but isn't that the same as telling me that I'm not free to express myself in certain venues? Isn't that a form of censorship?

Now, I've seen many of your posts and I don't believe that you would try to censor anyone, you seem from your post to be very pro freedom I just wanted to point out that your response seemed to indicate otherwise.

[::fred::]

 

If you are such a fan of freedom speech why do you criticize me for expressing my views? You tell me to start another tread but isn't that the same as telling me that I'm not free to express myself in certain venues? Isn't that a form of censorship?

 

I am criticizing you not for expressing your views, but for illogical discussion. What does anything about Russia has to do with American hypocrisy? Your argument makes no sense in the context of this thread, yet you're using it to oppose my opinion.

 

Like I said, I'm happy to discuss Russia whenever you want to.

[Miter Gauge]

 

I am criticizing you not for expressing your views, but for illogical discussion. What does anything about Russia has to do with American hypocrisy? Your argument makes no sense in the context of this thread, yet you're using it to oppose my opinion. Like I said, I'm happy to discuss Russia whenever you want to.

 

 

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. Where else should hypocrisy be pointed out than a thread about hypocrisy?

[Stevetemp]

When there is no more oil I don't think we'll be spending nearly as much time there.

 

 

Maybe...maybe not. But it's EXTREMELY both funny and aggravating to hear ignorant people say "Iraq was all about oil". fred made the cute joke...but the facts of the matter show otherwise. I'm gonna quote a website:

 

Those who claim the Iraq War is only about oil make it sound like U.S. troops are extracting oil directly from the veins of Iraqi babies and pumping it into my car.

 

 

Now...I'm not an Iraqi Oil Export Expert...but the same website attempts to dispel some myths and outright lies:

 

Here are the facts:

 

* The U.S. gets less oil today from Iraq than before 9/11

* The largest source of crude oil for the United States is the United States

* Iraq has never represented more than 4.5% of crude oil used in the United States

* The United States' dependence on foreign oil has increased, but the amount of oil from the Persian Gulf has decreased

 

 

I personally think The Middle East harbors a lot of hatred because of their own religious differences (amongst Islam), and the fact that living in sand is a hard life. And it's odd to me that "The U.S. is in The Middle East only for oil"...and yet...the Oil Emirs have so much oil money the plate their jumbo jets in pure gold.

 

Something not quite right about this whole thing.

 

 

Oh....not that anyone gives a damn about sources, other than to ridicule them....but here: http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/howmuchoilfromiraq.php

[NeloAngelo]

IRAQ WAS ALL ABOUT REVENGE FOR SADDAM TRYING TO PUT A HIT ON BUSH SR.