Members NeloAngelo Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hughes and Kettner, which is probably where they stole the design from. who stole it from mesa. who probably stole it from someone else. {censored}, mesa was built on fender amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GREC Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I wouldn't buy a Bugera simply based on the fact that they're {censored}ing leeches stealing circuitry and technology from other companies. Who hasn't???[video=youtube;z5aepcNWEIA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrispsullivan Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 The difference is that their amps are direct replicas. The Peavey and Mesa copies are what irk me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gatelyne Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 LOL! Well you do make a good point. I bought a 6260 for 100 bucks. I use it as a 'beater' amp. I literally throw it around and treat it like {censored}. It still works and there is no smoke. *Whispers* It actually sounds good. Ive been a part of HC since 01. I really enjoy all the information and people Ive met over the years *BUT* you will be bankrupt and crazy if you try to follow the trends/likes/dislikes of HC. If you like your bugera who gives a {censored} if its a copy of a copy of a copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I had three 6260 combos delivered one after the other. All three were either DOA or died within the first hour. My bandmate picked one up several months later and his is fine... My guess is they come in batches and they're hit and miss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbarn3065 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I wouldn't buy a Bugera simply based on the fact that they're {censored}ing leeches stealing circuitry and technology from other companies. Most companies do this. Marshall did it. Mesa did it. Peavey continue to do it. Pretty much everyone does. Regards them being straight up clones... they're not, are they? Some of the models have digital reverb, which in itself is enough of a change for it not to be a part for part clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I bought the V55HeaD on a whim because the main amp i had for years blew & need one right away & didn't have $1000 to blow at the time. I was shocked how good the clean channel sounded -even better with JJs. Using it for several months & really crank it at home & practice with a 4X12 and have had no issues. My favorite thing about it is the white chickenhead knobs that you don't have to squint at on stage for a quick change while you're playing -and you can do it with one finger. Sometimes I wonder since these is considered a 'beginners' amp that some people are just naively using them improperly -speaker cables/ohm settings etc. I wouldn't consider them rugged amps. They bias them at the factory a bit cold too.I've been playing for over 30+yrs & have seen people bitch about every amp imaginable.... The Bugeras I have seen for repair are just never babied like an ENGL or Mesa Boogie would be. Never in head cases and usually just beat to {censored}. Tossed around in the car I'd imagine. It's that premise of being a cheap amp means you don't have to take care of it. Why pay $200 for an amp case for an amp that costs 400 or so? I see the same {censored} with Behringer Mixers, Power amps, Box Mixer amps etc. When a Mackie, Soundcraft, or Allen Heath comes in, it's racked. It's the same analogy for Mac laptops and Windows laptops. The Windows laptop is often in the rear floorboard under the stacks of fast food bags and leftovers. The {censored}ing Macbook is in a special padded case next to the driver with the seat belt attached to it. Wonder why one supposedly outlasts the other? Pay more and you'll take better care of it. Bugeras are not taken care of, nor are most of any Behringer gear I see or repair. Oddly enough Behringer outsells most brands but I see about as much Behringer/Bugera as we do Peavey, Allen Heath, Soundcraft, Mackie, Alesis, Phonic, Alto, and Yorkville. OTOH, initially the build quality of most Chinese amps is going to be questionable and reliability issues will be higher. I see that on many Fender amp reissues made in China. One of these years those companies will learn that jacks, spade lugs, plug connectors and any high current connectors just can't be wave soldered. Insert jacks, XLR jacks, and even headphone and rca jacks all stress the connector solder joints either due to their mounting method, or the simple weight of the plug over time. Every wave soldered jack, plug, or pc mounted pot I see comes in with little rings and fractures on the connector solder and pc terminals. Just a problem waiting to happen if it wasn't the prime candidate for the symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 The difference is that their amps are direct replicas. The Peavey and Mesa copies are what irk me the most. There are tons of even higher priced exact replicas and Kits. Bugera/Behringer make {censored} that resemble other gear companies. Inside its all different most of the time. There are other companies that have copied Behringer designs too in some pro audio gear. Today there isn't much difference in a lot of imported gear besides color of the faceplate or knobs. So many bitch about Behringer or Bugera stealing designs or basic cosmetic layouts but they love ESP, Edwards, Agile, and PRS versions of Les Pauls. Not exactly the same, but they sure as hell resemble a certain branded guitar layout. Every amp company has stolen basic designs from Marshal, Fender etc who copied designs themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FrostByte Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 There are tons of even higher priced exact replicas and Kits. Bugera/Behringer make {censored} that resemble other gear companies. Inside its all different most of the time. There are other companies that have copied Behringer designs too in some pro audio gear. Today there isn't much difference in a lot of imported gear besides color of the faceplate or knobs. So many bitch about Behringer or Bugera stealing designs or basic cosmetic layouts but they love ESP, Edwards, Agile, and PRS versions of Les Pauls. Not exactly the same, but they sure as hell resemble a certain branded guitar layout. Every amp company has stolen basic designs from Marshal, Fender etc who copied designs themselves. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I wouldn't buy a Bugera simply based on the fact that they're {censored}ing leeches stealing circuitry and technology from other companies. I have to agree with that, sure most companies steal a little from each other. But this is on a much bigger scale. It's almost direct copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I actually think the fact they're so blatant is a not a bad thing. You know what you're getting and they're not trying to mislead anyone. How many 'new, original, unique, best overdrive in the world' pedals turn out to be just another $300 tubescreamer clone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I actually think the fact they're so blatant is a not a bad thing. You know what you're getting and they're not trying to mislead anyone. How many 'new, original, unique, best overdrive in the world' pedals turn out to be just another $300 tubescreamer clone? Maybe it's because I have had a couple of experiences of Beringer I am in the country of copying so I see it a lot, but the way bugera do it just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Personal thing I guess. And on a note for the lol's. My iPhone keeps trying to change bugera to Nigeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 With the copying of designs in mind, I guess you could look at modeling engineering methods that actually report the product is a digital design of original equipment spec. Another idea altogether, but the premise of copying designs still applies. It's been the reason those companies do not use trademarked design names and use some other reference distinction instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 With the copying of designs in mind, I guess you could look at modeling engineering methods that actually report the product is a digital design of original equipment spec. Another idea altogether, but the premise of copying designs still applies. It's been the reason those companies do not use trademarked design names and use some other reference distinction instead. Bugera still sucks more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 Bugera still sucks more. I wouldn't use one without totally going through it. I use some Behringer stuff in PA gear, but I've gone through those that I do have including some Peavey units and reinforced the jacks, and connectors where needed. It's becoming the same basically with most of the Chinese imports. It will get worse as more designs of parts (Neutrik, ALPS, and others) are being copied for budget pro audio etc. I see a lot of replica parts in Phonic, Alto, Alesis and other import brands. These are not buget units, but the company builds and sources these parts from the lowest of bidders. It's becoming all too common with bigger name vendors like Vox, Marshall, and Fender as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 and my 2+ year old Bugera! Original tubes, gets played for 5-6 hours a week, never an issue. I also have a combo that's about 6 months old... no issues... Seriously, if they were as bad as you say, they would be out of business. I do take my 6505+ to gigs just because I KNOW it's reliable but Bugeras aren't that bad. It's bandwagon, herd mentality hate. The store I bought mine from is 30 minutes from here, I know 2 guys that work there, it's their main amp line and they rarely ever have problems with the amps in house or the ones they've sold. I didn't say they're all bad, I said the problems aren't all fixed. I'm two for two in failures within a week, so it's not a bandwagon, herd mentality for me. It's real, recent, actual experience. I wish they had lasted. I thought they sounded really good. Seems like it's kind of a crapshoot still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teemuk Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yet to this day I haven't seen a Behringer or a Bugera product that would be an exact copy of something. They usually just merely resemble popular / famous products cosmetically - like tons of other products from other manufacturers. However, from inside they are usually very different. GCDEF reputedly hates Bugeras and while his experiences with the reliabity of few specimen might be real we all must remember that, for example, someone on this forum also had a Jet City amp that crapped on him within 6 hours of the purchase. Sometimes stuff just fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 GCDEF reputedly hates Bugeras and while his experiences with the reliabity of few specimen might be real we all must remember that, for example, someone on this forum also had a Jet City amp that crapped on him within 6 hours of the purchase. Sometimes stuff just fails. When did I say I hate them? OP just asked how bad are they. All I did was give my experience. I've said repeatedly I thought they sound good. If I come along and say I had two failures, and 20 people come along and say they work great, readers can form an opinion based on the success to failure ratio of posters in the thread. I've had other amps fail too, but two for two within a week seems a little more than just bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrispsullivan Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yet to this day I haven't seen a Behringer or a Bugera product that would be an exact copy of something. They usually just merely resemble popular / famous products cosmetically - like tons of other products from other manufacturers. However, from inside they are usually very different. GCDEF reputedly hates Bugeras and while his experiences with the reliabity of few specimen might be real we all must remember that, for example, someone on this forum also had a Jet City amp that crapped on him within 6 hours of the purchase. Sometimes stuff just fails. Are you serious? Behringer has done near exact copies of many Mackie products. The Bugera Trirec is a Mesa Rectifier clone. The Bugera Magician is a Mesa Mark IV clone. The Bugera 6260 is a Peavey 5150 clone. The Bugera 6262 is a Peavey 5150 II clone. The Bugera 333 is a Peavey Triple XXX clone. The Bugera 333XL is a Peavey JSX clone. Adding digital reverb does not negate the obvious replicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 Are you serious? Behringer has done near exact copies of many Mackie products. The Bugera Trirec is a Mesa Rectifier clone. The Bugera Magician is a Mesa Mark IV clone. The Bugera 6260 is a Peavey 5150 clone. The Bugera 6262 is a Peavey 5150 II clone. The Bugera 333 is a Peavey Triple XXX clone. The Bugera 333XL is a Peavey JSX clone. Adding digital reverb does not negate the obvious replicating. I'm pretty certain that the Recto, 5150, XXX and JSX are ALL based on a Soldano SLO 100 anyway. If Bugera add digital reverb and whatever the Infinium technology actually is... surely it then becomes at least as different as a 5150 is to an SLO 100. I'm no Bugera fanboy - I haven't owned one and wouldn't own one (due to 1st hand experience of amp failures) - but I think it's silly to say you wouldn't buy one because they make clones, when the amps they're cloning are themselves clones of clones of clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 With the copying of designs in mind, I guess you could look at modeling engineering methods that actually report the product is a digital design of original equipment spec. Another idea altogether, but the premise of copying designs still applies. It's been the reason those companies do not use trademarked design names and use some other reference distinction instead. That's completely different. While the idea of modeling is to copy tones from other amps, it is achieved through very proprietary software. There is a LOT of software R&D that goes into modeling, which is one of the reasons Behringer does not really compete in the modeling industry: the laws against copying software are much more strict and easier to enforce than the laws regarding copying circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm pretty certain that the Recto, 5150, XXX and JSX are ALL based on a Soldano SLO 100 anyway. If Bugera add digital reverb and whatever the Infinium technology actually is... surely it then becomes at least as different as a 5150 is to an SLO 100.I'm no Bugera fanboy - I haven't owned one and wouldn't own one (due to 1st hand experience of amp failures) - but I think it's silly to say you wouldn't buy one because they make clones, when the amps they're cloning are themselves clones of clones of clones. Behringer does not use the same procedures as Mesa or Peavey. That flat out copy {censored}, which is completely different than basing a new design on an existing design. Just because you're not educated enough on the subject to understand the difference it doesn't mean there is no difference. I worked in this industry for over a decade, Behringer is a {censored}ing cancer to the MI industry, which is pretty weak to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrispsullivan Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm pretty certain that the Recto, 5150, XXX and JSX are ALL based on a Soldano SLO 100 anyway. If Bugera add digital reverb and whatever the Infinium technology actually is... surely it then becomes at least as different as a 5150 is to an SLO 100.I'm no Bugera fanboy - I haven't owned one and wouldn't own one (due to 1st hand experience of amp failures) - but I think it's silly to say you wouldn't buy one because they make clones, when the amps they're cloning are themselves clones of clones of clones. They are VERY loosely based on the SLO. The circuitry and signal path is actually quite different on all of those, especially on the XXX and JSX. Adding digital reverb and some power tube tech is just not the same at all. The Peavey and Mesa amps are NOT clones. The Bugeras are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChuckNorris1982 Posted July 10, 2012 Members Share Posted July 10, 2012 It's not that I'm not educated enough. At all. It's just that Bugera seem to get a bad rap for doing what lots of other companies do. It's more prevalent in pedals, with so many Tubescreamer, Big Muff and Fuzz Face clones out there. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I just struggle to understand why other companies don't get called out on it when Bugera do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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