Members dicky sofa Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 mother {censored}ing history - how does it work...here's a prediction: in 20 years unions will be big again because of employment practices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stevetemp Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Many things throughout history have dwindled and or disappeared...never to return again. For any reason ever. It will seem normal up that timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by chip39 And I teach at a private school and CAN NOT wait to land that public school deal. WHOO HOO I'M RICH BIATCH. Seriously private school teachers get paid maybe 60% what public school teachers do. i CAN NOT WAIT until you get to that job and cry about how much better you had it in private school. LMFAO public school is hell, and i'm not even a {censored}in teacher. im an IT contractor for the public school district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chip39 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 But the moneys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members outtahear Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by newholland i like this guy. hobbesian worldview. i'm on that team. Shirt's waitin', Cap. Dan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by chip39 But the moneys... no amount of money is worth the stress of dealing with the politics, the students, the incompetence at all levels, the demands of working off the clock after hours, the lack of supplies, and all the other bull{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Eschatologist Sorry, meant to say "I don't make excuses for it..." I agree with you Btw Ontario has some of the highest standardized test scores of the OECD, while being fully publicly funded. It is possible to have quality public schools. Canada is full of asians............... duh Bring a million white, hispanic and black minorities up there and see how your city schools do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 The big problem with unions is that the only people they really help are the unions but along the way, every once and awhile, they help the workers.IMO a lot of the "protection" you get from unions isnt really needed if you are good at your job. Ive never been in a union and have managed somehow to make money, not be fired for incompetence and have had frequent raises.Also i have to say that every single guy i have ever worked with that was in a union at one time has been an lazy, entitled, awful worker. Im not sure if this is because they were drummed out because of incompetence or if thats just the union way but its been my experience in 15+ years of concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Around here the suburban Union schools are paid better with 5x the benefits than the private school staff and admins. The performance of the sports, and academic students is 2:1 in the favor of private schools. Is that to consider that all students in public sys from the time of Kindergarten to HS just simply suck or have horrible families? Maybe it's because the private schools hold the teachers, staff and admins to some sort of accountability within grade margins.Avg rates for private school tuition are about consistent with the so called and documented rate (used for driving levies) of cost per student in our public system here. Must not be that either.I wonder what it is..................... hmmmmmmmmmmm... what has changed that impacted things in public systems so negatively? Our community seems to have decent amt of money and business presence. Money isn't the issue, although the school wants new {censored}ing levies every three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chip39 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 The private school I teach at is an inner city mission based school so its hard to compare mine against public schools because we specifically take kids that are below the level that they should be. However, my wife teaches at a very successful private school with an average ACT score of a 26! If you were to compare how that school is run and the quality of teachers to the public school across the street there is no question that the public schools are better. Seriously the only good teachers at her school are people straight out of college or retired public school teachers and as soon as one of the straight out of college types get a public school offer they are gone.What I think it comes down to is the motivation of the students which more often than not is a product of the quality of the parents not the teachers. I tutor some of the kids at my wife's school that have had teachers that were doing nothing and ended up getting fired because of it but somehow one or two years of bad instruction couldn't keep them from being successful because they were motivated to figure the material out on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members charveldan Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Only 8% of the U.S. is union, that means 92% of people don't give a {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by charveldan Only 8% of the U.S. is union, that means 92% of people don't give a {censored}. When your property taxes (unless you dont own) are skyrocketing due in part to paying a retired worker getting a salary and lifetime medical benefits from some sweetheart deals Then you will 'give a {censored}' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stevetemp Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by chip39 The private school I teach at is an inner city mission based school so its hard to compare mine against public schools because we specifically take kids that are below the level that they should be. However, my wife teaches at a very successful private school with an average ACT score of a 26! If you were to compare how that school is run and the quality of teachers to the public school across the street there is no question that the public schools are better. Seriously the only good teachers at her school are people straight out of college or retired public school teachers and as soon as one of the straight out of college types get a public school offer they are gone. What I think it comes down to is the motivation of the students which more often than not is a product of the quality of the parents not the teachers. I tutor some of the kids at my wife's school that have had teachers that were doing nothing and ended up getting fired because of it but somehow one or two years of bad instruction couldn't keep them from being successful because they were motivated to figure the material out on their own. It would depend on the public school location. No doubt, many public schools are sound, with great students and especially great parents and towns. Big metro areas? You might've wished you'd stayed at your poverty salary. It won't be much over it anyway...and a ton of grief. From District/School politics to F'd up parents...caught in between. be careful what you wish for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stevetemp Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by ***1776*** When your property taxes (unless you dont own) are skyrocketing due in part to paying a retired worker getting a salary and lifetime medical benefits from some sweetheart deals Then you will 'give a {censored}' The thing is...firemen, police- professional who risk their lives! They should have a good salary, good medical....and at least some pension for their dedication and risk. Teachers? We take them for granted, sometimes little more than baby-sitters who take a TON of abuse. But they are STILL "Professionals" in a CRUCIAL niche in our society! Why not take care of them? Encourage the good ones to come in and stay? Not dumb it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Stevetemp The thing is...firemen, police- professional who risk their lives! They should have a good salary, good medical....and at least some pension for their dedication and risk. Teachers? We take them for granted, sometimes little more than baby-sitters who take a TON of abuse. But they are STILL "Professionals" in a CRUCIAL niche in our society! Why not take care of them? Encourage the good ones to come in and stay? Not dumb it down. This is one of the most sensible posts in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Stevetemp The thing is...firemen, police- professional who risk their lives! They should have a good salary, good medical....and at least some pension for their dedication and risk. Teachers? We take them for granted, sometimes little more than baby-sitters who take a TON of abuse. But they are STILL "Professionals" in a CRUCIAL niche in our society! Why not take care of them? Encourage the good ones to come in and stay? Not dumb it down. No, they are not risking their lives. Firefighters USED to risk their lives on a routine basis, but they have shown that they are living lives as long as an office job worker these days. Even during 9/11, more office workers died than police or fire. Police, by in large, will become criminals or apathetic in 10 years time if they are on the beat. Bad cops cannot get fired and can break the laws they enforce on the public without recourse. Teachers...there are some good ones out there, but I think that the majority do the same thing that cops do: they lose their motivation to teach for whatever reason and become union thugs. The SEIU is so {censored}ing destructive, you can't even imagine. Have you seen "Waiting for Superman"? Incredible documentary. The solution is not better benefits, but privatization. Dirty word and not easy to implement, but if performance is required, actually being at risk for not performing is the only way to guarantee motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 As usual you guys get so wrapped up in the wrong thing, that you missed what really happened. Right to work is a lie and should be called right to fire. This overturns almost all of the labor protection laws, and allows employers to fire an employee without or without cause. Leaving the employee without recourse. That means they can fire you at any time for any reason, or no reason, and there's nothing you or the union can do about it. no matter how good you are at your job................ Boss doesn't like you.............FU you're fired Boss is on period..............FU you're fired Boss wants so sleep with your wife, but you won't let him..........FU You're fired Boss want a BJ from you, but you won't do it...................FU You're fired Boss thinks your too close to retirement/pension................FU you're fired Boss doesn't like that you are (pick one or more) gay/straight/white/ethnic/pregnant/woman/man/married/single/ugly/fat/skinny/hot/bald/old/young/etc.......FU you're fired And even if you can prove that it was actually one of those reasons why you were fired. It doesn't matter because it's a right to work state and you have no recourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by marshallnoise No, they are not risking their lives. Firefighters USED to risk their lives on a routine basis, but they have shown that they are living lives as long as an office job worker these days. Even during 9/11, more office workers died than police or fire. Police, by in large, will become criminals or apathetic in 10 years time if they are on the beat. Bad cops cannot get fired and can break the laws they enforce on the public without recourse. Teachers...there are some good ones out there, but I think that the majority do the same thing that cops do: they lose their motivation to teach for whatever reason and become union thugs. The SEIU is so {censored}ing destructive, you can't even imagine. Have you seen "Waiting for Superman"? Incredible documentary. The solution is not better benefits, but privatization. Dirty word and not easy to implement, but if performance is required, actually being at risk for not performing is the only way to guarantee motivation. Privatization is a drity word. All it means is someone else taking the lions share of money. Privatization always cost more and gives less in return. The answer is to get rid of the NEA and DOE. Defund and all the local "school boards" (that's right, make them unpaid, local, volunteer jobs) then bring salaries/bonus/perks for "administrative" positions (superintendant/principal etc...) back to earth. Let local schools set the cirriculum, as well as the budget and spend the money on students & teachers in the classroom, instead of bureaucrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Charlie_Sheen Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel As usual you guys get so wrapped up in the wrong thing, that you missed what really happened. Right to work is a lie and should be called right to fire. This overturns almost all of the labor protection laws, and allows employers to fire an employee without or without cause. Leaving the employee without recourse. That means they can fire you at any time for any reason, or no reason, and there's nothing you or the union can do about it. no matter how good you are at your job................ Boss doesn't like you.............FU you're fired Boss is on period..............FU you're fired Boss wants so sleep with your wife, but you won't let him..........FU You're fired Boss want a BJ from you, but you won't do it...................FU You're fired Boss thinks your too close to retirement/pension................FU you're fired Boss doesn't like that you are (pick one or more) gay/straight/white/ethnic/pregnant/woman/man/married/single/ugly/fat/skinny/hot/bald/old/young/etc.......FU you're fired And even if you can prove that it was actually one of those reasons why you were fired. It doesn't matter because it's a right to work state and you have no recourse. are you saying you'd like to work at a place where your boss was a dick and demanded bjs from you and your wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Charlie_Sheen are you saying you'd like to work at a place where your boss was a dick and demanded bjs from you and your wife? you missed the enitre point. Your boss could do that to you tomorrow, even though he hasn't yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 i CAN NOT WAIT until you get to that job and cry about how much better you had it in private school. LMFAO public school is hell, and i'm not even a {censored}in teacher. im an IT contractor for the public school district. i dated a few public JH and HS teachers this past year, and yeah- i just thought i hated my job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krank'N Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Contrary to tea-bagger philosophy "GREED IS NOT GOOD". Self-centered individuals and corporations are a bane on the planet and its societies. Whining about your taxes while kids go hungry is vile. Denying those who have served a decent pension for decades of service is ludicrous. Raking in massive profits and handing out huge bonus' while lobbying to keep minimum wage levels down and treating workers like dirt is typical corporate practice. What goes around comes around tea-baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Contrary to tea-bagger philosophy "GREED IS NOT GOOD". Self-centered individuals and corporations are a bane on the planet and its societies. Whining about your taxes while kids go hungry is vile. Denying those who have served a decent pension for decades of service is ludicrous. Raking in massive profits and handing out huge bonus' while lobbying to keep minimum wage levels down and treating workers like dirt is typical corporate practice. What goes around comes around tea-baggers. do you have an iPhone? any Apple product? what about a Google/Android phone? Microsoft OS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Contrary to tea-bagger philosophy "GREED IS NOT GOOD". Self-centered individuals and corporations are a bane on the planet and its societies. Whining about your taxes while kids go hungry is vile. Denying those who have served a decent pension for decades of service is ludicrous. Raking in massive profits and handing out huge bonus' while lobbying to keep minimum wage levels down and treating workers like dirt is typical corporate practice. What goes around comes around tea-baggers.LOLMy taxes are skyrocketing in my county due to unfunded liabilities and legacy costs - sweetheart deals given to the unions. So when you want fiscal responsiblity you also wants kids to go hungry, ("the old what about the children'") gotta love the rational but its not unexpected, yeaaa they want children to starve Taxes are NOT solving the issues we are having, people like you who buy into the politicians bull{censored} lines help bolster these assholes in D.C. These jerkoffs spend $$$ on every pet project, states are in fiscal mess and of course whats the solution......??More taxes of course? Sure thats worked so well, lets keep doing it, do it again - Wash, Rinse, Repeat.... And then you get upset at people who want Washngton DC to be accountable and pay its bills just like all of us have to do, they are the problem? for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Charlie_Sheen Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 you missed the enitre point. Your boss could do that to you tomorrow, even though he hasn't yet so yes then. cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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