Members Urban Ghandi Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel LOL. I've been working in HR/Finance in 4 different states for over 25 years. I know what I am talking about.The reason you can't fire at will, is because of the union & union contract. Once you make a state a right to work state and eliminate the union, all that goes out the window. Right to work laws are just the opposite of that. They basically say that work is an ongoing agreement between the two parties. You agree to work, and they agree to pay you. BUT.....You or the company may end the agreement at any time, for any reason, or for no reason. In fact they don't even have to tell you why, just that the "agreement" is ended and you are no longer an employee. Get it ? But to have a "choice" is a good thing, right?Employees have the same ability to leave, with or without notice, to pursue a better paying position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide One more point to the guys defending the "greed is good" mentality. If "greed is good" then how can you possibly slam and rail against the unions? The preconceived notion that all union workers are lazy fat asses, and that the union bosses just line their pockets, supports your "greed is good" argument. You can't have it both ways. Saying greed is good in one breath,and then calling the unions greedy (as a pejorative) is absolute insanity. Contradicting yourselves FTL... Who are you even talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Urban Ghandi But to have a "choice" is a good thing, right?Employees have the same ability to leave, with or without notice, to pursue a better paying position. Leave without your 2 weeks, and try and use the employer as a reference and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked Who are you even talking to? There's a few people defending the "greed is good" mentality. I don't remember who exactly, I can go back and find them later. This was directed at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide There's a few people defending the "greed is good" mentality. I don't remember who exactly, I can go back and find them later. This was directed at them. You really are taking the comment or mentality out of context."greed is good" does not mean it is acceptable to use the political environment to funnel riches to your fat ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel Leave without your 2 weeks, and try and use the employer as a reference and see what happens. Those are the rules. If you leave without your two weeks notice, it shows you are hasty and unable to leave a bad situation with some dignity. New employers should know if you pull that stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urban Ghandi Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel Leave without your 2 weeks, and try and use the employer as a reference and see what happens. The assumption is: If you are giving two week's notice, you have already found a new job so the references are a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked You really are taking the comment or mentality out of context."greed is good" does not mean it is acceptable to use the political environment to funnel riches to your fat ass. Like the defense industries do?I don't think I'm taking it out of context at all. "GIG" applies itself everywhere, whether your job be at a corporation, within a union or otherwise. How is it any different? The idea to "one up" the next person isn't confined to private sector? Why would it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bumhucker Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 If unions didn't exist, every factory worker would be lucky to be making 10 bucks an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide Like the defense industries do?I don't think I'm taking it out of context at all. "GIG" applies itself everywhere, whether your job be at a corporation, within a union or otherwise. How is it any different? The idea to "one up" the next person isn't confined to private sector? Why would it be? GIG is meant in the context of a good market economy. That is obvious to most people. When someone says GIG (usually in discussions of outsourcing, cost cutting, layoffs, profits, etc), it doesn't mean that they hoard food from their starving kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Bumhucker If unions didn't exist, every factory worker would be lucky to be making 10 bucks an hour. If true, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Bumhucker If unions didn't exist, every factory worker would be lucky to be making 4 bucks an hour and work 70 hours per week. Adjusted for inflation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked GIG is meant in the context of a good market economy. That is obvious to most people. Who defined it as such? That seems like a very narrow description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide Who defined it as such? That seems like a very narrow description. The context defines it. If the persuit of profits and efficient production (ie. outsourcing, cost cutting, layoffs) is GREEDY, then greed is good. That is where the saying comes from. I don't know who you were talking to, or how they used the phrase in this particular thread, but I'm assuming that if you go look at the comments, they will resemble the line above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked The context defines it. If the persuit of profits and efficient production (ie. outsourcing, cost cutting, layoffs) is GREEDY, then greed is good. That is where the saying comes from. I don't know who you were talking to, or how they used the phrase in this particular thread, but I'm assuming that if you go look at the comments, they will resemble the line above. Ok, that is a definition. So why would the Unions or individual workers "greed" for better wages, better healthcare, better working condition etc. not fall under that definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide Ok, that is a definition. So why would the Unions or individual workers "greed" for better wages, better healthcare, better working condition etc. not fall under that definition? As you write it, it absolutely falls under that definition. An individual negotiates and takes the best possible compensation he can, just as the employer negotiates the opposite. Nothing wrong with that.Unions lobby for (and receive) special legislation that allows them to coerce more than negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked As you write it, it absolutely falls under that definition. An individual negotiates and takes the best possible compensation he can, just as the employer negotiates the opposite. Nothing wrong with that.Unions lobby for (and receive) special legislation that allows them to coerce more than negotiate. Corporations and other interest groups lobby just as much, if not more. I can't search any relevant websites while at work, but I'd actually be curious as to what the difference is between lobbying. Considering that unionized workers only represent about 10-15% of the work force, I would imagine its pretty lopsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide Corporations and other interest groups lobby just as much, if not more. I can't search any relevant websites while at work, but I'd actually be curious as to what the difference is between lobbying. Considering that unionized workers only represent about 10-15% of the work force, I would imagine its pretty lopsided. Of course they do. Nobody here is arguing that it is good. Again... Originally Posted by Rear Naked You really are taking the comment or mentality out of context."greed is good" does not mean it is acceptable to use the political environment to funnel riches to your fat ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul88lx Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 I wonder why no one is going after the IBEW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 What does that mean exactly? Are you saying that when dems are more prevalent, then the unions get fatter? You're differentiating between unions and corporations in a way that I don't get. They're actually pretty similar when boiled down to what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by diocide What does that mean exactly? Are you saying that when dems are more prevalent, then the unions get fatter? You're differentiating between unions and corporations in a way that I don't get. They're actually pretty similar when boiled down to what they do. Are you talking to me or paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked Are you talking to me or paul :???: That was to you, sorry, he replied while I was typing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 It means just what it says. Nothing about dems or reps. I am absolutely not differentiating between unions and corporations. "Greed is good" is used in the context of efficient production and profit seeking. This applies to businesses as well as employees. It is not an endorsement of rent-seeking behavior, be it by businessor or employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked It means just what it says. Nothing about dems or reps. I am absolutely not differentiating between unions and corporations. "Greed is good" is used in the context of efficient production and profit seeking. This applies to businesses as well as employees.It is not an endorsement of rent-seeking behavior, be it by businessor or employees. Oh ok. Then I guess we agree. The way I was reading it was that you were condemning unions for "greed" but not corps. No wonder I was so confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scuff Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 It always fascinates me that after the 2008 finance crisis put together by wall street finance bosses, that is affecting the world today, the unbelievable wealth that some people have amassed with out paying income taxes or barely enough, that after all that the only thing governments are doing are passing law to diminish unions and the power of the small and middle class workers. And even more fascinating is that the population embarks in this screw the little guy party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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