Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike LX-R does changing one's mind change the way they'll continue to live in this case? Does not changing one's mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fly135 Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Basically said the same thing 8 months ago here....http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...1#post45648248 If the state of the universe is dependent on the previous state an infinitesimal moment earlier then there is no free will. Only the limitations of our mind allow us to think that free will exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked You can't imagine a life change if someone stops believing in free will??? Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks Does not changing one's mind? Yes, like how I described in my first response http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...1#post47361873 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike LX-R Yes, like how I described in my first response http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...1#post47361873 This could be a dangerous or empowering idea, yet the idea won't change anyone's life. How does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by extollo e.g. idents separated at birth end up with same clothes, jobs, hairstyle, spouses, etc. You really think this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked This could be a dangerous or empowering idea, yet the idea won't change anyone's life. How does that make sense? you caught me a day later in a different mood that's how. Look, I was more popping in here on the 6th page thinking all the debating hullabaloo was going around in silly circles and that's why I said it won't change anything. Show me who in all of these pages has changed their mind and I will officially withdraw my "doesn't change anyone's life" statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 wat the future is not set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 lack of free will does not infer or imply determinism.why can't you people see that?EVERY decision that you make is a result of complex chemical interactions in your brain. change the chemical atmosphere in your brain just a little, and the decisions you make will change. you simply cannot control it.put another way, you choose the things you do because of the structure of your brain and the concentration of neurochemicals therein. change either of those, and you'll make different decisions. WHO you are is what your brain is and contains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux lack of free will does not infer or imply determinism. why can't you people see that? I get it. What's funny is that people who believe in free will can't explain it. They'll say, "yesterday I had leftover lasagne for lunch, today I brought a sandwich but I could have had more lasagne. That's free will!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux lack of free will does not infer or imply determinism. why can't you people see that? EVERY decision that you make is a result of complex chemical interactions in your brain. change the chemical atmosphere in your brain just a little, and the decisions you make will change. you simply cannot control it. put another way, you choose the things you do because of the structure of your brain and the concentration of neurochemicals therein. change either of those, and you'll make different decisions. WHO you are is what your brain is and contains. Ok. What does that have to do with what the OP was asking about? Ie being able to predict the future based on particle behavior determined at the onset of existence. Is the structure of our brains and the concentration of neuro chemicals what creates our conscience and awareness? So our interactions with our environment is something that changes these two things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Can there be sin without free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks Can there be sin without free will? oh boy, here we go.... p.s. you're a dick for going there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy Ok. What does that have to do with what the OP was asking about? Ie being able to predict the future based on particle behavior determined at the onset of existence. Is the structure of our brains and the concentration of neuro chemicals what creates our conscience and awareness? So our interactions with our environment is something that changes these two things? the OP was off base in attempting to use physics to infer determinism. nobody really argued that. what has been (and will continue to be) argued is the existence of free will. the structure and chemistry in our brains is responsible for our conscience (consciousness?) and awareness, yes. interactions with the environment can certainly change these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Environment absolutely affects our bodies and our decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike LX-R oh boy, here we go.... p.s. you're a dick for going there Why else discuss free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux the OP was off base in attempting to use physics to infer determinism. nobody really argued that. what has been (and will continue to be) argued is the existence of free will. the structure and chemistry in our brains is responsible for our conscience (consciousness?) and awareness, yes. interactions with the environment can certainly change these things. on that note... did you know that the fluoride they put in our water calcifies the pineal gland? And furthermore, if we change our environment haven't we changed the factors that affect our free will, and by extension exercised our free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux the OP was off base in attempting to use physics to infer determinism. nobody really argued that. what has been (and will continue to be) argued is the existence of free will. the structure and chemistry in our brains is responsible for our conscience (consciousness?) and awareness, yes. interactions with the environment can certainly change these things. Oh, then we're on the same page. Just checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JKD Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you look at human movement on the scale of the universe....heck, even our own solar system then net movement of the particles that make up our entire species probably sums to a number close to zero...so the 'free will' of our movement can be argued to have had very little effect. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike LX-R on that note... did you know that the fluoride they put in our water calcifies the pineal gland? And furthermore, if we change our environment haven't we changed the factors that affect our free will, and by extension exercised our free will? got any research to back that up? i'd like to know the mechanism by which flouride causes something to calcify. further, i'd like to know what the consequences of a calcified pineal gland are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux got any research to back that up? i'd like to know the mechanism by which flouride causes something to calcify. further, i'd like to know what the consequences of a calcified pineal gland are. Black helicopters overhead in 3, 2, 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux got any research to back that up? i'd like to know the mechanism by which flouride causes something to calcify. further, i'd like to know what the consequences of a calcified pineal gland are. there's a {censored} tone of research. you can easily find it, as well as problems caused by it. calcification of any gland is bad news for your biochemistry. so my point in all of this is that if you choose to live in a way that vastly alters the overall composition of your neurological function, then you've affected the conditions which according to you dictate the choices that you make. we are definitely players in our own destiny for sure, that's what I'm getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Mike LX-R there's a {censored} tone of research. you can easily find it, as well as problems caused by it. calcification of any gland is bad news for your biochemistry. so my point in all of this is that if you choose to live in a way that vastly alters the overall composition of your neurological function, then you've affected the conditions which according to you dictate the choices that you make. we are definitely players in our own destiny for sure, that's what I'm getting at. i looked, didn't find any reputable sources. please provide yours. also, none of us have a destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by redeye5 thats not what the laws of physics say at all, nevermind quantum physics I was gonna say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rock Hardness Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Calcification. iG OPURN {censored}M TURND STO DUST, WHAT THE {censored} ARE WE GOMMA DOO ABOUT IT??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike LX-R Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by knucklefux i looked, didn't find any reputable sources. please provide yours. also, none of us have a destiny. You're dodging my argument and you could step away from the pineal gland argument and break into any lifestyle that negatively effects cognitive function, whether by depletion of nutrients used for cognition, or a whole array of other factors. my point is that your choice to live in a certain way effects your chemical make-up overall, which according to you dictates the choices you make. if I am Omega deficient and I begin to eat a lot of foods because they're high in omegas my neurological function is going to change, and so will the choices that I make as a result. Still, it was a choice to alter my composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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