Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I know, I edited that post. I confused the Zad 50 specs with the "Martin Sigma DM" (?) specs. Sigma by Martin is no different than Epiphone by Gibson. It's not misleading or confusing for most people. Selling a Sigma as a Martin Sigma DM, claiming that you perform some type of new, innovative set up on the guitar and more than doubling the Sigma selling price is a flat out scam. I don't see how a rational person could defend him. It is obvious that many of our Zagerites are here on a mission. I edited my post after I saw your edit. I try to be fair minded. We all have our biases, though. Still, what Denny has done is indefensible, IMO. If Denny were to buy up Sigmas, forget using the Martin name, and build his clientele by promoting his super-duper setup, that would be one thing. Buyer beware. I would warn folks they're spending too much money, but it's their money. The indiscriminate use of the Martin name, though, takes it another step. Hopefully, folks interested in learning all they can before buying a Zager will happen upon this thread. There are just too many better options for the money out there. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I'm asking myself a question: maybe CF Martin & Co. know about D. Zager using their name and maybe they get paid for that! ??? (I'm bad... I know!) edit: I would still not buy a Zager! That's certainly a possibility but I'm sure, if they do, they certainly aren't aware of Zager bashing Martin's reputation for being a bad product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I don't see how a rational person could defend him. It is obvious that many of our Zagerites are here on a mission. Hudman..I am 100% in agreement with this statement At first I was skeptical about the existance of "Zagerites"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 That's certainly a possibility but I'm sure, if they do, they certainly aren't aware of Zager bashing Martin's reputation for being a bad product. Yeah! You are right... I tend more to think that D. Zager does not pay anything to CF Martin & Co. What is weird too is that Zager started bashing Martin at the same moment Sigma stopped their production (or did I miss something??? Feel free to explain it to me if that's the case!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hudman..I am 100% in agreement with this statement At first I was skeptical about the existance of "Zagerites"... It does seem suspicious that some come in, quite bellicose, and their total HCAG existence is comprised in that thread. Others, like TC and Max, I consider honest consumers with honest questions. They post on other threads, too. I just don't consider denigrating name-calling productive. I can understand how frustration can lead to it, though. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Did I tell you about the special formula fuel additive I've invented? Add a teaspoon to a tank of gas and enjoy 50% better mileage. The $19.95 one-liter bottle will last for years. Supplies are going fast. But wait! Order within the next 15 minutes and I'll throw in a genuine teaspoon measurer. That's right, better mileage and an accurate measurer for only $19.95. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 This thread is gonna make me fat! Instead of practicing... I eat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teegee420 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I see that Zager now has a pic of the Sigma headstock. Has it always been there, or is this new? I don't recall seeing it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jd-drafter Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 the small thumbnail has been there... but when you selected it you never got the larger readable pic as you posted... hmm..? interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 the small thumbnail has been there... but when you selected it you never got the larger readable pic as you posted... hmm..? interesting... Very interesting... Someone over there has been watching HCAG lately! (we did suspect that didn't we?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Very interesting... Someone over there has been watching HCAG lately! (we did suspect that didn't we?) Naw; say it ain't so! I'll be. That's the first time I've seen that thumbnail on the pics to enlarge. It's funny to me that they are supposedly ceasing to sell their "Sigma/Martins," according to the email to me, but they still seem to be going strong on their site. If a git is problematic to your customers because of its inherent structural issues, wouldn't you stop selling it? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I see that Zager now has a pic of the Sigma headstock. Has it always been there, or is this new? I don't recall seeing it before. No. You could never get the large view. Sigma guitars are no longer being built. It's a little too late to come clean now. Especially considering Denny JR is now claiming the "Martin Sigma DM" guitars are inferior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 One can make a tidy little profit selling a $500 all-laminated guitar, can't one? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Very interesting... Someone over there has been watching HCAG lately! (we did suspect that didn't we?) There have been several e-mails to the Zager co. asking that very question by folks here. At the bottom of Zagers web site, there is a message: "How can we make this site better" Those of you that feel strongly about the Sigma, Martin issue, perhaps you could send a message pointing out the confusion in their ads. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 No. You could never get the large view.Sigma guitars are no longer being built. It's a little too late to come clean now. Especially considering Denny JR is now claiming the "Martin Sigma DM" guitars are inferior. Yes..it seems ludicrous to advertise the very guitar that "Denny Jr." is claiming to be an inferior product in his email response. I can almost guarantee to you that the person writing those emails is in fact NOT "Denny Zager Jr" Mr Zager..If you are in fact monitoring this forum and these threads about your product why dont you step forward and introduce yourself and clear the air? It seems to me that if someone was bad mouthing my sales methods or my product on an internationally known music forum I'd want to at least try and defend myself and not use "sock puppets" to try and further justify my methods. Please...help us out here...???? OGP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 There have been several e-mails to the Zager co. asking that very question by folks here.At the bottom of Zagers web site, there is a message: "How can we make this site better"Those of you that feel strongly about the Sigma, Martin issue, perhaps you could send a message pointing out the confusion in their ads.Just a thought. The Zager Sigma-Martin debate has been going on here for a few years now. Several posters sent them email about their deceptive use of "Martin" in their adds (myself included). Those emails were ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hi TC! You know, IMHO, if you are happy with your guitar, that's all that matters! I bought a Cort Earth Custom which I think is great. Lots of people would have pass on this deal because of the brand name! I love my guitar! I'm happy with it! I tried other guitars made by Cort that were good and some that didn't impress me at all! It all comes to this: if YOU like your guitar then keep it! Anyway, no two guitars are the same! No two pieces of wood are the same! If someone wants to buy a Zager, that's fine for me! I think it's a good thing that he knows what he is getting. With all those threads going on he should get the picture quickly on the Net! If he sticks with the git because it is a good one then, Fine! We all want a guitar that suits our needs! How much someone is willing to spend for his setup or (???) is his own business! So, I'm glad you like your guitar! Enjoy it! Play it as much as possible! About the Sigma-Martin thing... I'm just curious to know if there is an arrangement between them and Mr. Zager! I don't like false advertising. If people end up with a great guitar that is a great ending to a bad thing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 The Zager Sigma-Martin debate has been going on here for a few years now. Several posters sent them email about their deceptive use of "Martin" in their adds (myself included). Those emails were ignored. Ignored, no response back what so ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hi TC!You know, IMHO, if you are happy with your guitar, that's all that matters!I bought a Cort Earth Custom which I think is great. Lots of people would have pass on this deal because of the brand name! I love my guitar! I'm happy with it!I tried other guitars made by Cort that were good and some that didn't impress me at all! It all come to this: if YOU like your guitar then keep it! Anyway, no two guitars are the same! No two pieces of wood are the same! If someone wants to buy a Zager, that's fine for me! I think it's a good thing that he knows what he is getting. With all those threads going on he should get the picture quickly on the Net! If he sticks with the git because it is a good one then, Fine! We all want a guitar that suits our needs! How much someone is willing to spend for his setup or (???) is his own business!So, I'm glad you like your guitar! Enjoy it! Play it as much as possible!About the Sigma-Martin thing... I'm just curious to know if there is an arrangement between them and Mr. Zagger! I coudn't agree with you more!! Thank you for your sincere comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 By the way TC, my first language is French. I do know that I make many mistakes when I write in English! I call it my "engrish" language! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 There have been several e-mails to the Zager co. asking that very question by folks here.At the bottom of Zagers web site, there is a message: "How can we make this site better"Those of you that feel strongly about the Sigma, Martin issue, perhaps you could send a message pointing out the confusion in their ads.Just a thought. TC, Dennis, Jr., emailed to me that they were discontinuing the "Martins" [he never said "Sigma" in the email] because of structural problems with the "Martins." I suspect they consider the issue moot. However, they still push them on their site and their eBay store. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 because of structural problems with the "Martins." I suspect they consider the issue moot. However, they still push them on their site and their eBay store.Bill Agreed. However Hud said "Several posters sent them email about their deceptive use of "Martin" in their adds (myself included). Those emails were ignored." I find it hard to beleive that e-mails were ignored. He probably got a response he didn't like or have the desired effect but doesn't want to admit to anything more. Again, putting a negative spin on things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Martin Sigma DM-1Martin Sigma DM-1stceYou can find both models most anywhere on the Web. You will have to point out where the letters "DM" are the same as the name DM-1. I had both a DM-1ST anda DR-1ST. A DM is a solid top Martin Guitar and a DM-1 is an all laminate Sigma Guitar. With your reasoning the number 12 is the same as the number 123.:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Go look at Denny's own line of guitars...genuine Grovers all the way. I wouldn't buy the Sigma either because they they have laminate tops. You really don't know much about Sigmas, do you? Anything tha says ST at the end or any two digit guitar like a DR-41 or Dr-28 as well as DR-1ST and DM-1ST are all solid tops. It would seem that you constantly have made statements here with no factual bearing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Try this enlightening link; www.sigmaguitars.com/dm1.html Especially since Sigma is described as a subsidiary of CF Martin (Their parent company). You seem to be another one who can't tell the difference between model numbers.....DM vs DM-1 that two different companies sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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