Members Hudman Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Agreed. However Hud said "Several posters sent them email about their deceptive use of "Martin" in their adds (myself included). Those emails were ignored."I find it hard to beleive that e-mails were ignored. He probably got a response he didn't like or have the desired effect but doesn't want to admit to anything more. Again, putting a negative spin on things! I emailed Zager a couple years ago questioning their sales tactics. I never got a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Agreed. However Hud said "Several posters sent them email about their deceptive use of "Martin" in their adds (myself included). Those emails were ignored."I find it hard to beleive that e-mails were ignored. He probably got a response he didn't like or have the desired effect but doesn't want to admit to anything more. Again, putting a negative spin on things! TC, Why do you find it hard the emails were ignored? Is it because they were quick to respond to yours when you were buying? Could it be they respond to emails when it is in their interest and ignore those questioning their integrity? If Hud says he never received a response, it's easier to believe him than a company that has been shown to use, at best, questionable marketing. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I emailed Zager a couple years ago questioning their sales tactics. I never got a reply. Sorry folks, the deception was started by Martin. Martin got greedy and wanted their market share in the beginner guitar business so they began putting their name on any cheap foreign made guitars they could get from Korea, Indonesia and Japan. From there they let the retail stores do the rest telling newbie players if it says Martin on it then it's a Martin. I can't even imagine the money Martin has made over the last 30 years playing this shell game. You people should be getting paid by Martin the way that you defend their deceptive tactics.....or do we possibly have some Martin employees in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sorry folks, the deception was started by Martin. Martin got greedy and wanted their market share in the beginner guitar business so they began putting their name on any cheap foreign made guitars they could get from Korea, Indonesia and Japan. From there they let the retail stores do the rest telling newbie players if it says Martin on it then it's a Martin. I can't even imagine the money Martin has made over the last 30 years playing this shell game. You people should be getting paid by Martin the way that you defend their deceptive tactics.....or do we possibly have some Martin employees in here? It is like..... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sorry folks, the deception was started by Martin. Martin got greedy and wanted their market share in the beginner guitar business so they began putting their name on any cheap foreign made guitars they could get from Korea, Indonesia and Japan. From there they let the retail stores do the rest telling newbie players if it says Martin on it then it's a Martin. I can't even imagine the money Martin has made over the last 30 years playing this shell game. You people should be getting paid by Martin the way that you defend their deceptive tactics.....or do we possibly have some Martin employees in here? Two completely separate issues. First, I don't even own a Martin, as I've said. What Martin didn't do was take a $200 Sigma, put "Martin" on it, and charge $500 for it. They sold a $200 guitar for $200. Second, if you really have a beef with Martin's name being on Sigma guitars, why not start a thread to that effect? That could be an interesting debate. Or are you simply trying to shift the attention off of Zager? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 TC,Why do you find it hard the emails were ignored? Is it because they were quick to respond to yours when you were buying? Could it be they respond to emails when it is in their interest and ignore those questioning their integrity?If Hud says he never received a response, it's easier to believe him than a company that has been shown to use, at best, questionable marketing.Bill Yes, they did respond to all of mine in a prompt manor and they did not ignore your e-mail regarding questioning their integrity or marketing tactics. You even went a step further posting your experience with this issue. Maybe some of these folks should try again. Maybe they were rude with their e-mail and did not deserve a response? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Two completely separate issues. First, I don't even own a Martin, as I've said. What Martin didn't do was take a $200 Sigma, put "Martin" on it, and charge $500 for it. They sold a $200 guitar for $200. Second, if you really have a beef with Martin's name being on Sigma guitars, why not start a thread to that effect? That could be an interesting debate. Or are you simply trying to shift the attention off of Zager? Bill I THINK I WILL DO JUST THAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Yes, they did respond to all of mine in a prompt manor and they did not ignore your e-mail regarding questioning their integrity or marketing tactics. You even went a step further posting your experience with this issue. Maybe some of these folks should try again. Maybe they were rude with their e-mail and did not deserve a response? I don't know. Actually, my email was simply asking for a picture of the headstock: I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Two completely separate issues.First, I don't even own a Martin, as I've said. What Martin didn't do was take a $200 Sigma, put "Martin" on it, and charge $500 for it. They sold a $200 guitar for $200.Bill No...Martin actually took a guitar that was probably worth $99 and put their name on it and sold it for $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sorry folks, the deception was started by Martin. Martin got greedy and wanted their market share in the beginner guitar business so they began putting their name on any cheap foreign made guitars they could get from Korea, Indonesia and Japan. From there they let the retail stores do the rest telling newbie players if it says Martin on it then it's a Martin. I can't even imagine the money Martin has made over the last 30 years playing this shell game. You people should be getting paid by Martin the way that you defend their deceptive tactics.....or do we possibly have some Martin employees in here? Actually...Martin owns the name and can put it on whatever guitar it wants. How that is being deceptive is beyond me. The original Sigma line had solid tops and were built in Japan at the the Fujii Gen Gakki factory ...the same one that made Tokai. These guitars are actually sought after today. Many of those guitars were then shipped from the factory in Japan and inspected by Martin employees in Nazereth PA before going to retailers. Those particular guitars have an "N" stamped onto the label. In the mid 80's manufacturing was moved to Korea..and then finally to Indonesia. Anyone who grew up in the 1970's and 80's could get a Takamine Martin copy or a Yamaha or any other so- called "copy" guitars and there was no question that these were NOT Martins. I have no idea where you shop for guitars but the place I shop at I can assure you that no salesman has ever told a customer that a Sigma guitar is the same or as good as a Martin. I also fail to believe that Martin has the power or the abilty to even bothering telling music store owners all over the free world to deceive the public into believing that a $200 plywood asian made guitar is as good as a "Martin" just because..you say so. Keep diggin' the hole deeper dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Bill You were not ignored, and you were polite with your e-mail. Maybe the result of your e-mail caused them to look at their pictures and correct the problem with that one picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 No...Martin actually took a guitar that was probably worth $99 and put their name on it and sold it for $200. Which they have the right to do...it's their name... Basically what you are telling us really is that Zager takes a $99 guitar and sells it for $500. Keep diggin the hole deeper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Actually...Martin owns the name and can put it on whatever guitar it wants. How that is being deceptive is beyond me. The original Sigma line had solid tops and were built in Japan at the the Fujii Gen Gakki factory ...the same one that made Tokai. These guitars are actually sought after today. Many of those guitars were then shipped from the factory in Japan and inspected by Martin employees in Nazereth PA before going to retailers. Those particular guitars have an "N" stamped onto the label. In the mid 80's manufacturing was moved to Korea..and then finally to Indonesia. Anyone who grew up in the 1970's and 80's could get a Takamine Martin copy or a Yamaha or any other so- called "copy" guitars and there was no question that these were NOT Martins. I have no idea where you shop for guitars but the place I shop at I can ssure you that no salesman has ever told a customer that a Sigma guitar is the same or as good as a Martin. I also fail to believe that Martin has the power or the abilty to even bothering telling music store owners all over the free world to deceive the public into believing that a $200 plywood asian made guitar is as good as a "Martin" just because..you say so. Keep diggin' the hole deeper dude... I don't know what world you live in but when I go to my local Guitar Center those guys will tell me whatever I want to hear to get a commission that day. I never much pay attention to the 19 year olds behind the counter anyway because most of the time they're full of crap, but where does that leave the new player who doesn't know the entire history of Martin Sigma as well as you do? Where are you from, Mayberry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Which they have the right to do...it's their name... Basically what you are telling us really is that Zager takes a $99 guitar and sells it for $500. Keep diggin the hole deeper... If Zager can make that $99 guitar play easier then my $2000 Martin then as far as I'm concerned he deserves it. My kid would have given up on guitar without Zager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 You were not ignored, and you were polite with your e-mail. Maybe the result of your e-mail caused them to look at their pictures and correct the problem with that one picture! You're right--my email was responded to. But nothing was said about what I had written about to begin with. Perhaps the photo was corrected as a result of my email, or perhaps it was due to all the questions raised lately on this forum. We'll never know. How about this? Since you've recently purchased a git from them, how about emailing them some of the concerns raised here, especially the indiscriminate use of the word "Martin" on their eBay store that Dak posted a couple of pages back. You can let them know you like your git, which you do, but their usage of "Martin" is hard to defend and you wanted their side of the story. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I THINK I WILL DO JUST THAT! Good. Looking forward to it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I don't know what world you live in but when I go to my local Guitar Center those guys will tell me whatever I want to hear to get a commission that day. I never much pay attention to the 19 year olds behind the counter anyway because most of the time they're full of crap, but where does that leave the new player who doesn't know the entire history of Martin Sigma as well as you do? Where are you from, Mayberry? I live in a city of over 1 million people. It's called Ottawa it's the captal city of Canada. We dont have "Guitar Centers" here in my country. The shop I deal with has been in business for 35 years and most of the salesmen there have all been there since the store opened . They have 3 stores, one here, one in Montreal and one in Toronto. I have been in everyone and they don't hire 19 yr olds...trust me. All of the 7 music stores in my city have been in business for 20 yrs or longer. Only one of them is a chain and it is a Canadian owned company. It's called Long & McQuade and again..they do not hire ignorant kids. If they did..they would not be in business for 50 years. I am not responsible for the "new player" who hangs around your "Guitar Center". Maybe you should do some research before you make generalized statements about me or guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I don't know what world you live in but when I go to my local Guitar Center those guys will tell me whatever I want to hear to get a commission that day. I never much pay attention to the 19 year olds behind the counter anyway because most of the time they're full of crap, but where does that leave the new player who doesn't know the entire history of Martin Sigma as well as you do? Where are you from, Mayberry? Guitar Center sells Sigma? Actually, when I was looking for a good beginner's guitar, the young guy in the Greenville, SC, Guitar Center steered me to the Yamaha FG700S for $199.99. It's a great solid top, not laminated top, guitar. Low action and easy to play. The young fella knew what he was talking about. I returned it only because a neat HCAG forumite sold me a Norman ST68 he didn't need for a great price. Solid top and solid back, easy to play, and sweet to hear, and I would love to compare my Norman with a top-of-the-line Zager, but I don't know anyone with a Zager near me. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 If Zager can make that $99 guitar play easier then my $2000 Martin then as far as I'm concerned he deserves it. My kid would have given up on guitar without Zager. Hmmm....well I am glad your son is enjoying his new guitar. That is really all that counts. Now..I'll be more than happy to take that {censored}ty playing $2000 Martin off your hands. It must be terrible to own such a fine made instrument and not be able to play it. I'll take it in and have my luthier set it up for me for $90.00 and it'll play like butter. I'll trade ya my Sigma DM-2 ..I set it up myself and it plays as good as my Taylor...(woops did I say that?) In fact which Martin model is it..I'd love to see pics of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 I live in a city of over 1 million people. It's called Ottawa it's the captal city of Canada. We dont have "Guitar Centers" here in my country. The shop I deal with has been in business for 35 years and most of the salesmen there have all been there since the store opened . They have 3 stores, one here, one in Montreal and one in Toronto. I have been in everyone and they don't hire 19 yr olds...trust me. All of the 7 music stores in my city have been in business for 20 yrs or longer. Only one of them is a chain and it is a Canadian owned company. It's called Long & McQuade and again..they do not hire ignorant kids. If they did..they would not be in business for 50 years.I am not responsible for the "new player" who hangs around your "Guitar Center". Maybe you should do some research before you make generalized statements about me or guitars. I apologize for making any generalized statements. I envy where you are located having such a knowlegable group to turn to for your guitar needs. I wish I was so lucky. I guess this is why I turned to Zager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hmmm....well I am glad your son is enjoying his new guitar. That is really all that counts. Now..I'll be more than happy to take that {censored}ty playing $2000 Martin off your hands. It must be terrible to own such a fine made instrument and not be able to play it. I'll take it in and have my luthier set it up for me for $90.00 and it'll play like butter. I'll trade ya my Sigma DM-2 ..I set it up myself and it plays as good as my Taylor...(woops did I say that?) In fact which Martin model is it..I'd love to see pics of it. D-28...I'll let you know when I list it on Ebay because that's where it's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sorry folks, the deception was started by Martin. Martin got greedy and wanted their market share in the beginner guitar business so they began putting their name on any cheap foreign made guitars they could get from Korea, Indonesia and Japan. From there they let the retail stores do the rest telling newbie players if it says Martin on it then it's a Martin. I can't even imagine the money Martin has made over the last 30 years playing this shell game. You people should be getting paid by Martin the way that you defend their deceptive tactics.....or do we possibly have some Martin employees in here? Just wondering. How often do you fall down? All that spinning you do has to make you dizzy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HalsJamin43 Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Just wondering. How often do you fall down? All that spinning you do has to make you dizzy.... Hey Dak. Have you received your check from Martin yet this month? If not let them know you deserve a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hey Dak. Have you received your check from Martin yet this month? If not let them know you deserve a bonus. Hah! Had you read all the posts you'd know I do not own a Martin, one is not high on my want list nor anywhere near my have to have list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted March 8, 2008 Members Share Posted March 8, 2008 Okay---400 posts and no new info. This thread's a wrap for me. Best to everyone. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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