Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Just an acoustic guitar and vocals. No eletronics in guitar. No amp. No mics. I arrived at my lunch gig today at Potbelly and the amp was gone! I thought that it had been stolen. Turns out, musicians are no longer allowed to use amplification during gigs. The amp was still there (a Fender Acoustisonic 30), but it was placed out of reach. Nobody could give a clear reason as to why this directive has been issued, but it has. I had to transpose on the fly some songs up a second or third to help my voice carry, and I had to be careful not to blow out my voice (and I'm going to have to be much more serious about warming up my voice -- no more quick warm ups). I kept reminding myself that I only needed to reach the surrounding tables and not the back of room. A while ago I saw something on opera singers and how they aim their voices upward to the balcony so that it will carry without too much effort. Even though there isn't a balcony, I imagined that there was one and aimed my voice there. Interesting enough, the lunch crowd was responsive. When I played a loud song, they got louder. And when I played a quiet song, they got quieter -- which is the same experience I have when plugged in. Lately, I've stripped down my setup to just using the onsite Fender amp and taking my own mic and micstand. It's much simpler now: just me and my guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larry50 Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Raw naked talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 A while ago I saw something on opera singers and how they aim their voices upward to the balcony so that it will carry without too much effort. Even though there isn't a balcony, I imagined that there was one and aimed my voice there. I'm not really a singer, so I'm definitely not an authority on this kind of thing, but most opera/orchestra halls are also designed so that someone on stage can be heard well without any amplification. Just thought I'd interject that little tidbit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm not really a singer, so I'm definitely not an authority on this kind of thing, but most opera/orchestra halls are also designed so that someone on stage can be heard well without any amplification. Just thought I'd interject that little tidbit . While room design is part of it, the basic idea is that you don't sing to the floor or to the first rows. Even in opera houses, you sing to the balconies. Think about the angle of violins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Just an acoustic guitar and vocals. No eletronics in guitar. No amp. No mics. I arrived at my lunch gig today at Potbelly and the amp was gone! I thought that it had been stolen. Turns out, musicians are no longer allowed to use amplification during gigs. The amp was still there (a Fender Acoustisonic 30), but it was placed out of reach. Nobody could give a clear reason as to why this directive has been issued, but it has. I had to transpose on the fly some songs up a second or third to help my voice carry, and I had to be careful not to blow out my voice (and I'm going to have to be much more serious about warming up my voice -- no more quick warm ups). I kept reminding myself that I only needed to reach the surrounding tables and not the back of room. A while ago I saw something on opera singers and how they aim their voices upward to the balcony so that it will carry without too much effort. Even though there isn't a balcony, I imagined that there was one and aimed my voice there. Interesting enough, the lunch crowd was responsive. When I played a loud song, they got louder. And when I played a quiet song, they got quieter -- which is the same experience I have when plugged in. Lately, I've stripped down my setup to just using the onsite Fender amp and taking my own mic and micstand. It's much simpler now: just me and my guitar. Is this company-wide policy or just that particular Potbelly's Sandwich Shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 While room design is part of it, the basic idea is that you don't sing to the floor or to the first rows. Even in opera houses, you sing to the balconies. Think about the angle of violins. I wasn't implying that room design was everything---I was just pointing out that it was a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Just an acoustic guitar and vocals. No eletronics in guitar. No amp. No mics. I arrived at my lunch gig today at Potbelly and the amp was gone! I thought that it had been stolen. Turns out, musicians are no longer allowed to use amplification during gigs. The amp was still there (a Fender Acoustisonic 30), but it was placed out of reach. Nobody could give a clear reason as to why this directive has been issued, but it has. I had to transpose on the fly some songs up a second or third to help my voice carry, and I had to be careful not to blow out my voice (and I'm going to have to be much more serious about warming up my voice -- no more quick warm ups). I kept reminding myself that I only needed to reach the surrounding tables and not the back of room. A while ago I saw something on opera singers and how they aim their voices upward to the balcony so that it will carry without too much effort. Even though there isn't a balcony, I imagined that there was one and aimed my voice there. Interesting enough, the lunch crowd was responsive. When I played a loud song, they got louder. And when I played a quiet song, they got quieter -- which is the same experience I have when plugged in. Lately, I've stripped down my setup to just using the onsite Fender amp and taking my own mic and micstand. It's much simpler now: just me and my guitar. My voice would be toast after about 5 songs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Way cool. Fun story, and no doubt a good experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Is this company-wide policy or just that particular Potbelly's Sandwich Shop? From what I gather, it's company-wide. Word came down from corporate. The manager at the one I played today told me, and I called the manager of another location where I play tomorrow and he told me the same thing: no amps. I've heard a few theories from the two different ones that I play, but nothing is sure except for the fact that no amps are to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members totamus Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 I play potbellys tomorrow, and I hope an amp is there - my voice doesnt carry far, especially in the keys I like to sing in... I'll let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordchunker Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Every fri I do an acoustic bluegrass gig with a trio (me, mandolin and fiddle). It is a balcony that overlooks the main drag. It is VERY loud with lots of Harleys, vendor trucks, 200 people eating and street noise. Some tunes just do not work in this type of gig.. Pretty fingerstyle guitar is hard to pull off for example. Mainly hard driving up-tempo songs work best imho.. I learned a long time ago how to project when I was a street musician.. It`s all about the diagram when singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 I play potbellys tomorrow, and I hope an amp is there - my voice doesnt carry far, especially in the keys I like to sing in...I'll let you know The amp may be there (it was at the one I played), but you can't use it. I had a couple of songs keyed a bit low to take advantage of the lower register, but they just got buried. I guess I could've used a capo, but I just did it on the fly -- sometimes I played the song in my normal key and then shifted it up after taking a solo. It really made a difference. You may want to give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Every fri I do an acoustic bluegrass gig with a trio (me, mandolin and fiddle). It is a balcony that overlooks the main drag. It is VERY loud with lots of Harleys, vendor trucks, 200 people eating and street noise. Some tunes just do not work in this type of gig.. Pretty fingerstyle guitar is hard to pull off for example. Mainly hard driving up-tempo songs work best imho.. I learned a long time ago how to project when I was a street musician.. It`s all about the diagram when singing. Yeah, ya gotta time the ballads just right. I still did September Song and They Can't Take That Away From Me and a few others that aren't bashers, but I made sure the room wasn't packed. All flatpicking and I'm so glad I put some time in rest-stroke picking a la gypsy jazz guitarists. I may have to bring the Gitane D500 out of retirement. I was taking some pretty deep breaths and dropping my jaw to get the sound out -- as well as leaning back just a bit to project. Gotta have more water nearby. I sit at my gigs, but I may need to start standing to get better projection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 From what I gather, it's company-wide. Word came down from corporate. The manager at the one I played today told me, and I called the manager of another location where I play tomorrow and he told me the same thing: no amps. I've heard a few theories from the two different ones that I play, but nothing is sure except for the fact that no amps are to be used. Sounds like someone got excessively loud and/or plyed the room w/ feedback...bummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Sounds like someone got excessively loud and/or plyed the room w/ feedback...bummer That's one theory I've heard. I'm sure they get their fare share of musicians who believe that everyone shows up to hear the music and not eat the sandwiches. One of the managers told me about how one musician showed up with her manager so that they could discuss the contract and the positioning of the merchandising kiosk. Crankage probably happened when the Chicagoans where in the room. It's funny how I've been stripping down my live shows to almost nothing: guitar, voice, one mic, one amp. Now it's just the guitar and voice. I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have done a lot of gigs like that, but I find that someone usually orders a cappucino right during the quiet part of the song. I am used to letting the mike do the work; that would be an adjustment. Good work on going with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 I have done a lot of gigs like that, but I find that someone usually orders a cappucino right during the quiet part of the song. I am used to letting the mike do the work; that would be an adjustment. Good work on going with the flow. I think all mic'd singers work it, especially guys and the proximity effect. We're all sons of Bing Crosby. Somehow it feels like I'm not an "acoustic" singer with the mic, but an eletric one. I was definitely an acoustic singer today. As far as going with the flow, I wasn't really sure what to do when I showed up. I was -- oh, man, oh, man, how am I gonna pull this off? Where's that precious amp?! It was like performing at a really noisy campfire or at a chatty party. It did feel strange to perform and not a have a mic stand or amp or anything else on stage with me. I've been doing gigs for two decades or so, and I've never done that in a professional setting -- unless the power went out, but the gear was still on stage. This gig, nada. Talk about solo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stella Joop Posted July 8, 2009 Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 While room design is part of it, the basic idea is that you don't sing to the floor or to the first rows. Even in opera houses, you sing to the balconies. Think about the angle of violins. which is why i play dobro instead of guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fendouglas Posted July 8, 2009 Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 I started off my public singing - in UK folk Clubs (Finger-picking a 12string) and the norm (in those days) was 'purely acoustic'. Given that the audience "knew what they were there for" and, as a result, were generally well-behaved, it worked out quite well and allowed me to improve my (unamplified) tecnique, i.e. Singing standing up and aiming toward the ceiling. Doing bar (or restaurant) gigs, where a lot of the time you're just 'background' music, however, I found a PA necessary. I once did a 4 hr (charity) solo session (without PA) in the auditorium of an ASDA (similar to Wal-Mart) Supermarket and the acoustics were so good, I could be heard right throughout the store and didn't feel that my voice was straining. LIkewise, when I did a recent gig (again without PA) in an old stone Water Cistern (that had been converted into an Art Gallery) in Turkey, the domed ceiling produced beautiful acoustics. Having said all that, some of today's (UK) venues are in Modern Pubs - with thick carpets and heavy wall-paper, which just soaks up the sound - and so, again, a PA is essential or you just can't be heard. Horses for Courses innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDR Posted July 8, 2009 Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 A while ago I saw something on opera singers and how they aim their voices upward to the balcony so that it will carry without too much effort. The soprano Renee Fleming was a recent guest on Elvis Costello's TV show "Spectacle". The show is filmed live in a theatre in New York. Fleming talked about technique, and illustrated it by singing two songs: first an aria, then a jazz standard, with only piano accompaniment. For the aria, she sang unamplified, in the soprano range, and her voice filled the room. The second song was sung an octave lower, in Fleming's normal conversational pitch, and she explained that she needed PA amplification, because she hadn't trained to project in that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 I started off my public singing - in UK folk Clubs (Finger-picking a 12string) and the norm (in those days) was 'purely acoustic'. Given that the audience "knew what they were there for" and, as a result, were generally well-behaved, it worked out quite well and allowed me to improve my (unamplified) tecnique, i.e. Singing standing up and aiming toward the ceiling. Doing bar (or restaurant) gigs, where a lot of the time you're just 'background' music, however, I found a PA necessary. I once did a 4 hr (charity) solo session (without PA) in the auditorium of an ASDA (similar to Wal-Mart) Supermarket and the acoustics were so good, I could be heard right throughout the store and didn't feel that my voice was straining. LIkewise, when I did a recent gig (again without PA) in an old stone Water Cistern (that had been converted into an Art Gallery) in Turkey, the domed ceiling produced beautiful acoustics. Having said all that, some of today's (UK) venues are in Modern Pubs - with thick carpets and heavy wall-paper, which just soaks up the sound - and so, again, a PA is essential or you just can't be heard. Horses for Courses innit? Peter, that gig in Turkey sounds sweet. Got any pics? True, a PA would be best in my situation, but the top brass has nixed it. As a working musician, whatcha gonna do? In restaurant gigs, I expect to be a bit of the ambience and not the main attraction. With the PA, folks who want to hear the music sit closer and those who don't sit farther away. Without the PA, the music lovers will have to sit a little closer and the other folks won't have to sit so far away. This couldn't have happened at a more interesting time. I've been stripping down my live setup anyway and been wondering how I could do purely acoustic gigs. Ask and you shall receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RogueGnome Posted July 8, 2009 Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 Perhaps there will be a lot of used Fender Acoustisonic amps coming up for sale.The irony of this policy is that the quiet fingerstyle guitarists will get drowned out by the din of ambient noise, and the headbangers will prevail.Chalk up another one for the Law of Unintended Consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 Perhaps there will be a lot of used Fender Acoustisonic amps coming up for sale.The irony of this policy is that the quiet fingerstyle guitarists will get drowned out by the din of ambient noise, and the headbangers will prevail.Chalk up another one for the Law of Unintended Consequences. The Fenderacoustics were loaners. If they continue with this policy, ya gotta wonder where they will end up. I'm not entirely sure why they've stopped the amp usage. Experience would chalk it up to crankenstein musicians. But without any real word, that's just speculation. They could have fallen out of favor with Fender and can no longer use the amps. Maybe they got another sponsorship? Perhaps they are worried about theft? There are many possibilities. One ever knows what's going on in the corporate mind. As far as getting drowned out by ambient noise ... it's an interesting thought. Restaurant gigs are considered background music or ambience. So the notion of ambience getting drowned out by ambient noise is fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted July 8, 2009 Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 I usually try to avoid the ambient music gigs if I'm singing, but loved them for instrumental music. When I was doing electronic keyboard stuff I wrote a lot of music for theatre pieces (background music, not music for musicals) and would play at art show openings. That was a lot of fun. I guess because a lot of my vocal music has "meaning" I'd like the words to be heard. On the other hand, if I were making a living at it as Stackabones does, I'd certainly do what they want as long as they pay me. Sometimes I envy folks like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted July 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2009 I guess because a lot of my vocal music has "meaning" I'd like the words to be heard. On the other hand, if I were making a living at it as Stackabones does, I'd certainly do what they want as long as they pay me. Sometimes I envy folks like that. I actually believe that a great majority of the vocal songs I'm performing are chock-full of meaning, but I'm under no illusions that restaurant patrons are hanging on my every syllable. However, there are folks at every gig who are paying attention and following along. A few even express interest in seeing me perform elsewhere, which is always flattering and a reminder for me to always play my best material to the best of my ability. Like Jerry Lee Lewis says, all killer no filler! This gig is just one aspect of my life as a musician. Currently, it's not as big a piece of the pie as teaching is, but it adds a nice bit of pocket change each month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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