Members larry50 Posted August 11, 2010 Members Share Posted August 11, 2010 Also, looking at the Martin price guide, it seems there are a multitude of D 18 and D 28 guitars of all different prices and woods (woe is me). Here are the current basic variants: D-28 (Standard Line - EIR/Sitka Spruce, non-scalloped bracing) HD-28 - a D-28 with scalloped braces and herringbone purfling HD-28V - a D-28 built to vintage specs (scalloped forward shifted braces, herringbone purfling, aging toner, snowflakes + squares fingerboard inlays, upgraded wood (allegedly) D-28 Marquis - upgraded D-28, modified v-neck There are other variants, mostly artist signature models__________________ D-18 (Standard Line - Mahogany/Sitka) D-18GE - a D-18 built to vintage specs, old style 18 rosette, 1 3/4" nut, adirondack spruce top, forward shifted scalloped bracing D-18 SS - new, short scale (24.7") D-18 D-18 Marquis - upgraded D-18 Again, there are other artist model variants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NealP Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 Listen to no one here, other than those suggesting Martins. You've got experience, you know how to play a guitar, you know what a well made guitar looks like, and you've got 2500 to spend on one. What are your profile specs? Nut, size, etc.. one can play any music on any size, dreadnaughts are great for flatpicking and strumming those country tunes, and OM and 00, 000 sizes are great for finger, but the reverse is also true. Some "brand" suggestions I don't think you can go wrong with, in that price range- in order of my preference. Bourgeois, excellent, excellent. Santa Cruz, I love these, but you'll have to watch for the deal.Collings, another can't go wrong, nope , no way. Martin, they still make 'em really good in the upper end series.Gibson, I did like the J-45, but play it, consistency is sometimes an issue with the new ones. There are a bunch others, a few that really rattled my brain when I was looking and in your position, but out of the $ range, like Goodall, Froggy Bottom. All of the others though are good, not pedestrian in the least, instruments, and can be had at the price range you are in. Good luck in the search, try the Acoustic Guitar Forum for more suggestions if you ain't in a hurry http://www.acousticguitarforum.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 I'm thinking you should try the Martin HD-28 and the D-18 I'll bet the sound your looking for is there. Good luck in the quest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kujozilla Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 I love Martin, but the HD-28V has no soul... My grandfather owns one. Here are a few comparisons. By a {censored}ty guitarist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PancakeBunny Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 You CAN go wrong with with just about anything if you haven't played it first. For $2500 you can get any number of Golden Era/Marquis Martins on the used Market. Excellent guitars but be weary of finish problems. Collings are very stiff and take a while to open up. Santa Cruz are very lightly built and can be prone to structural issues down the line. Martins are somewhere in the middle. Check out some older Tippin guitars. The new ones are way out of your price range but the ones from the 90's are often based on old designs as opposed to newer ones which are original designs. They're also cheaper. People often describe them as sounding like ancient Martins. A ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 Hee hee hee! Only the OP can decide. Odds are he might end up with a Yamaha! Seriously though, if you go to Empire try the following: HD-28: the one they have there is a decent one, but it's not the best Martin in the store D-35: it's a new one so it sounds a little tight, but it's got a little more resonance/sustain than the HD-28 HD-35: my personal favorite of the bunch which is a 2008 model IIRC. As of my last visit the strings were tarnished and it was tuned in D-G-C-F-A-D but Sweet Jesus but it is ALIVE with tone. D-21 Special: it was hidden on the back wall but to look at it you'd think it was a vintage instrument. It's a dreadnought but the top has that honey colored aging toner on it, along with a smaller pyramid bridge and a wider fretboard and nickel Waverly tuners. I keep away from that one because I am not worthy, but the last time I played it that guitar begged to have some old time rags fingerpicked on it. Weird for a dread but it is what it is: special. They also have a D-18 there but it's not a good one; the last two D-16GTs they had there (another mahogany/spruce dread but with some cost-cutting measures employed in its composition/construction, the first of which I happened to snag up!) sounded much more resonant. BTW, Empire seems to favor Taylors at their shop because they "move" off the walls more (they cater to a younger clientele than Martin's demographic) and I must say that several models there do please my midlife crisis tinted ears. Check out the GS models, Taylor Custom shop models and the R Taylor hand built models. They have more kick than your more traditional Taylor models. Meanwhile, over at Acoustic Music Works they've got guitars priced fully $1000 above your limit to start. They've got Bourgeois and Collings there as well as Huss & Dalton along with some used and vintage Martins. Check out their inventory online; it's pretty impressive. If you have an inclination to just go to Guitar Center though. They had a D-35 there that was almost as good as the HD-35 at Empire. There were also a couple of dud HD-28s but look for the MMV dreadnought there. $1300 street price with about 7/8 the tone of the $3K D-35. Definitely a contender in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted August 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 Hello! I see you're in Pittsburgh as am I. If you're willing to spend that much then maybe you should go to Acoustic Music Works in Squirrel Hill. They carry some pretty high-end stuff that top out over you range but there are plenty to choose from in your price range. If you're looking strictly for a Taylor vs. Martin comparison there's Empire Music in Mount Lebanon. He carries both brands and on the last visit I saw that he had one of those Martin Performing series. FWIW I was not impressed and actually think that the Taylor GS models are superior. Otherwise, if you're looking for a dreadnought then look at the Martins. I'd recommend starting with the HD-28 and move from there. Also, I'd recommend Backstage guitars which has two locations: one in East Liberty and a satellite store in Wexford. They carry Larriv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NealP Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 So Doc, you've found we all have our favorite guitars. And that we're all pretty much wrong, unless we're right.Go, look, play. You'll find your own favorite guitar, I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticDave Posted August 12, 2010 Members Share Posted August 12, 2010 get yourself a nice Martin. I have an HD-35 which I absolutely adore, but you should play a D-28, HD-28, D-35, and see which one speaks to you. Find yourself a guitar center where you can sit by yourself in a sound proof room and strum away to your heart's content. one thing I'm sure you know is that not all acoustics from the same line are created equal, so you'll absolutely want to be buying the one you play and not getting a 'similar model' online. happy hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted August 13, 2010 Members Share Posted August 13, 2010 As I mentioned in my initial post, I did go to Acoustic Music Works and was less than impressed with the salesman. To elaborate, he was annoyed when I told him I was primarily an electric player and knew very little about how to pick an acoustic. A little snobbery was going on. He also trash talked Taylor after telling me I should go somewhere else and buy a Taylor. Of course, after he heard me play he got more interested but by that time I had alreadyb decided that I had no interest in purchasing anything at that store. On the other hand though I will certainly check out the other stores you mention. BTW, I played 3 collings guitars while at acoustic music works and found them less than inspiring. Of course I was already put off by the salesman, none of the guitars were handed to me in tune, and all the guitars sounded pretty but there was no high end sparkle present. Just low end warmth which is fine when played with a singer alone, but with a full band would have a difficult time cutting through. For that much money I have played several other guitars with much better tone (for me at least). Hehe - I've never dealt with him personally but have heard that from others. I've never tried a Collings either but from what I hear a good Martin D-18 is a better long term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted August 13, 2010 Members Share Posted August 13, 2010 I think you also need to try the Guild F50R: http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/search.php?partno=3852800821 and the Guild D50: http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/search.php?partno=3856400821 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted August 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 Hehe - I've never dealt with him personally but have heard that from others. I've never tried a Collings either but from what I hear a good Martin D-18 is a better long term investment. I have tried out a bunch of acoustics since last posting (of course no more at Acoustic Music Works, but rather Empire Music and good old Pianos N' Stuff). So far I am down to two with only a few more that I want to try (I have played about 50+ literally) 1. Martin HD-28. Absolutely stunning sound and very playable. My only concern is where it will sit in the mix of a recording. Played alone in a room with some natural reverb it just blew me away.2. Taylor 814 ce. Absolutely stunning playability, and sound getting quite close to the HD. I do prefer the Martin sound as noted above, but the notes in a chord played on the Taylor seem more defined making me think it may be easier to record, though its the way the notes blend so smoothly on the Martin that makes it sound so sweet. Not sure which way I am going to go on this one. I do have Several others to try (this week sometime I hope) and I will get back to you with my final decisions. Wish I could buy both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tbry Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have tried out a bunch of acoustics since last posting (of course no more at Acoustic Music Works, but rather Empire Music and good old Pianos N' Stuff). So far I am down to two with only a few more that I want to try (I have played about 50+ literally)1. Martin HD-28. Absolutely stunning sound and very playable. My only concern is where it will sit in the mix of a recording. Played alone in a room with some natural reverb it just blew me away.2. Taylor 814 ce. Absolutely stunning playability, and sound getting quite close to the HD. I do prefer the Martin sound as noted above, but the notes in a chord played on the Taylor seem more defined making me think it may be easier to record, though its the way the notes blend so smoothly on the Martin that makes it sound so sweet.Not sure which way I am going to go on this one. I do have Several others to try (this week sometime I hope) and I will get back to you with my final decisions. Wish I could buy both! I have a friend with an HD28 and its nice but just ok. It doesn't really live up to its rep...I also have a friend with an 814...I prefer it, but then again I like the Taylor sound and they are so easy to play...Have fun choosing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 Sounds to me like you like the lushness of rosewood but with a little more balance than a typical dread can deliver. I assume that you went to Empire. Did you try the Taylor GS8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larry50 Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have tried out a bunch of acoustics since last posting (of course no more at Acoustic Music Works, but rather Empire Music and good old Pianos N' Stuff). So far I am down to two with only a few more that I want to try (I have played about 50+ literally)1. Martin HD-28. Absolutely stunning sound and very playable. My only concern is where it will sit in the mix of a recording. Played alone in a room with some natural reverb it just blew me away.2. Taylor 814 ce. Absolutely stunning playability, and sound getting quite close to the HD. I do prefer the Martin sound as noted above, but the notes in a chord played on the Taylor seem more defined making me think it may be easier to record, though its the way the notes blend so smoothly on the Martin that makes it sound so sweet.Not sure which way I am going to go on this one. I do have Several others to try (this week sometime I hope) and I will get back to you with my final decisions. Wish I could buy both! I have an HD-28V. The guitar is designed primarily as a rhythm strummer and a bluegrass flat picker (although I think the D-18's are a better choice for bluegrass flatpicking). My guitar has a very fat bass. You need to back it off about two to three feet from your recording mike or it will sound boomy and muddy in any recording. But, backed off a bit from the mike, when you find the sweet spot, holy {censored}. If you need a strong rhythm acoustic guitar to sit easily in a mix, your HD-28 will do it. Like all Martin models, you need to play a few to find a real gem. If you do, buy it and don't look back. I will say the the Taylor is an easier guitar to record. Better string to string clarity, and of course, fantastic necks. The strong bass on the HD-28 makes it less than ideal as a fingerstyle guitar, but you can fingerpick it. The Taylor is easier to fingerpick and thus perhaps more versatile than the HD-28. However, I find the Taylor tone to lack the sonic heft and tonal complexity of the good Martins, particularly among the dreads, and to be overly shimmery and thin sounding. When a good HD-28 is recorded properly, depending on what the guitar is intended for in a song or a mix, it will blow any Taylor away as a rhythm instrument IMO. It's all a matter of personal taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members valentsgrif Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 In the limited studio sessions I've seen, The Gibson J-45 or J-50 seems to have the nod of all the acoustics the pros use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 Don't let the goodplayability of the Taylor confuse you!Martins can be played as easily, after a setup. Nobody knows why, but Martin's factory setup is traditionally medium/high. Taylors are medium/low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixgunner455 Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have tried out a bunch of acoustics since last posting (of course no more at Acoustic Music Works, but rather Empire Music and good old Pianos N' Stuff). So far I am down to two with only a few more that I want to try (I have played about 50+ literally)1. Martin HD-28. Absolutely stunning sound and very playable. My only concern is where it will sit in the mix of a recording. Played alone in a room with some natural reverb it just blew me away.2. Taylor 814 ce. Absolutely stunning playability, and sound getting quite close to the HD. I do prefer the Martin sound as noted above, but the notes in a chord played on the Taylor seem more defined making me think it may be easier to record, though its the way the notes blend so smoothly on the Martin that makes it sound so sweet.Not sure which way I am going to go on this one. I do have Several others to try (this week sometime I hope) and I will get back to you with my final decisions. Wish I could buy both! I honestly don't think you can make a mistake with either of those. Both are just lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted August 16, 2010 Members Share Posted August 16, 2010 Take the 814ce. I've recorded a lot with that model. They record beautifully. They sit in the mix beautifully. It's a superb recording guitar. The 814ce is one of my all-time favorite guitars. And I'm neither a Taylor nor a Martin fan. Narrowed down to those two guitars -- for recording -- no contest IMO.The Martin holds its resale better. But I'd much prefer recording with the 814ce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted August 17, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2010 In the limited studio sessions I've seen, The Gibson J-45 or J-50 seems to have the nod of all the acoustics the pros use. Thanks everyone for such great advice. Its such a hard decision to make. I like both so much but for slightly different reasons. I have yet to try the guilds (probably this weekend). I hope nobody hates me for this next comment, but I have never found a Gibson that I like to play, electric or acoustic. To look at, yes, the acoustics are beautiful, and to this day no one has made an electric that looks as good as a Les Paul. Unfortunately, for me, I just don't like the feel or sound. Maybe Im missing something because I agree, they sure do seem to be very popular in the studio and on stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted September 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Went for my final test run on the HD28 and 814. Since first trying these I realized I hadn't yet plyed the 816 ce. Well, it was love at first pluck. Of course I played for 30 min or so and didn't want to put it down. I was about to hand over my discover card when the salesman (a guy I have known for over 20 years told me about the 816 fall limited edition comin to the store in October (beautiful florentine cutaway). He is going to set that aside for me (I wouldn't wany anyone else to play it first) and then I will decide which I like better. I am so excited. I must say, I still love the idea of a Martin with all that tradition, but the Martin speaks to my head, the Taylor to my heart and soul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Good show. The 816 is essentially the acoustic/electric version of the GS but there are some minor cosmetic and structural differences from what I understand. I see your friend got you to open your wallet a little wider. If you thought the Taylor Limiteds are tempting you should try a Custom Shop or R Taylor. I really like the latters' Style 1. I don't know what the difference really is other than the R Taylors are handbuit whereas the regular Taylors are produced in almost an heavily automated CNC/assembly line fashion. One thing's for sure: they're fairly consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted October 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2010 Well, I A/B'd the 816ce and 816ce LTD. Despite using identical woods on these two guitars they sound completely different. I was suprised by how different. After playing them for about three hours I finally realized that I was trying to convince myself that I liked the LTD (for reasons other than exclusivity). Finally, realizing I never sell my equipment I chose the standard 816 (it just flat out sounded perfect). I would have loved to own a limited edition (heck they were identically priced) but I would have never been satisfied ). Needless to say though, I am thrilled with my choice- I just wish it wasn't a Christmas gift from my wife (she won't let me play it so all I get to do is make sure the humidifier is full (boo hiss). But it sure does bring back memories of being a kid around the holidays!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members baldbloke Posted October 2, 2010 Members Share Posted October 2, 2010 Well, I A/B'd the 816ce and 816ce LTD. Despite using identical woods on these two guitars they sound completely different. I was suprised by how different. After playing them for about three hours I finally realized that I was trying to convince myself that I liked the LTD (for reasons other than exclusivity). Finally, realizing I never sell my equipment I chose the standard 816 (it just flat out sounded perfect). I would have loved to own a limited edition (heck they were identically priced) but I would have never been satisfied ). Needless to say though, I am thrilled with my choice- I just wish it wasn't a Christmas gift from my wife (she won't let me play it so all I get to do is make sure the humidifier is full (boo hiss). But it sure does bring back memories of being a kid around the holidays!!! Congrats on the new guitar. You could always tell the wife that you need to play it now so you can be sure it's free of defects. On second thoughts, nah, my wife wouldn't believe that either. 94 days to christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc7string Posted October 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2010 Congrats on the new guitar. You could always tell the wife that you need to play it now so you can be sure it's free of defects. On second thoughts, nah, my wife wouldn't believe that either. 94 days to christmas A man who understands!! Thanks for the countdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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