Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have a Bedell OH-12 Parlor guitar which I love the sound but the neck width is 1.7" and is a touch to narrow. I have been told that you can sometimes increase the string spacing slightly by replacing the nut. Is this true? Are there any negatives in doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 It depends on how close the strings are set to the edge of the fingerboard now. Odds are that you can take them out closer to the edge with a new nut, but you might find yourself pulling the 1st & 6th string off the edge if you have a heavy touch or tend to bend the strings as you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Yes, you can!But only to an extent. You might have the E or e string slipping off the fingerboard if you overdo it.In General, sanding down a saddle is no biggie, but making a new nut is what I always loathe. If you dig a thou too deep, you will have a snare and not a guitar. Yes, you could patch/fix that with dust and superglue, but in the end I start o er again with a new blank.That reminds me that I used to have an electric guitar once, where the nut was adjustable per string, like some special screwheads. Hell, too long ago and my memory is not getting better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have a Bedell OH-12 Parlor guitar which I love the sound but the neck width is 1.7" and is a touch to narrow. I have been told that you can sometimes increase the string spacing slightly by replacing the nut. Is this true? Are there any negatives in doing this? This should be possible. My advice would be to take your guitar to a very good guitar tech (if possible, go to someone recommended by other folks you know who have used him/her). How much you are able to increase the string spacing will depend on how much overall fingerboard width you've got at the nut. The only possible negatives are that (A) the closer you bring the 1st and 6th strings to the edges of the board, the more likely you may be to accidentally push/pull those strings off the board while playing - particularly if you tend to bend a lot; and (B) nut work is on the more delicate/complicated side of setup work, so it tends to be expensive. This is a pure guess, but the nut work alone may cost around $100 (though I'm in NYC, where everything is pretty expensive). Who knows? Could be half that, in a lot of places. Not sure what nut material you've got on there now, but if you decide to go ahead with it, I'd suggest throwing a bone nut on there. This is something you could do yourself - there's a ton of instruction out there. But if you are not experienced doing your own setup work, I don't recommend it. The nut is an element that can really wreck your guitar's playability if it is even remotely imprecise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but if they are replacing the nut, can I save the old one and put it back if for some reason I don't like the new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Depends.Not all nuts go iut without damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but if they are replacing the nut, can I save the old one and put it back if for some reason I don't like the new one? Not easily. Ordinarily the nut will be fixed in place with a bit of glue. Removing a nut is a chore in itself and often the old nut is rendered useless in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitmo Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have a Bedell OH-12 Parlor guitar which I love the sound but the neck width is 1.7" and is a touch to narrow. I have been told that you can sometimes increase the string spacing slightly by replacing the nut. Is this true? Are there any negatives in doing this? Do you think there is enough room on the fretboard to shuffle the strings around to satisfy you? You only have 1.7" to work with, what you take from one place you must sacrifice at another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Not sure. I have a good luthier in my area so I'll have to let him take a look. I may end up either have to get used to the width or look for another guitar. Hate to do that since I love the sound and it only bothers me on certain chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 What the others have said. Normal spacing from the 1st and 6th string to the edge of the fretboard is about 0.125 max and as little as .100 - I use 0.110 as my default for the way I play. If you get it too close, you will pull the strings off the edge depending if you thumb fret the 6th or bend the 1st. One way to tell is to loosen the nut (tap it with a punch against the fretboard side) and slide it back and forth to see how close you can get and still play it. String tension will hold it in place. Then have a new nut made with the spacing that you and your tech decide on. As Knock says, the old nut probably had a couple of drops of glue on it. My experience is that plastic nuts frequently chip when you try to knock them out, bone usually doesn't and can be saved. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Best way I know to remove a nut is to use a block of wood. Place it on the fretboard with the grain-end of the block up against the nut.Gently tap the other end of the block with a hammer, and the nut will pop loose.But if you're going to have a tech cut the new nut might as well let the tech remove the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 It shouldn't be major surgery at all. I know a good luthier who uses a single drop of AR glue to keep a nut in place. When removing it he uses a piece of wood as a caul and strikes that gently with a small hammer. He usually gets the nut loose with just one tap. IMO the glue is actually optional. He replaced the nut on my Larrivee (upgraded from tusq to bone but kept the string spacing the same) and afterward the nut popped off on its own. No matter though: the string tension keeps it put anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yamaneck Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have a Bedell OH-12 Parlor guitar which I love the sound but the neck width is 1.7" and is a touch to narrow. I have been told that you can sometimes increase the string spacing slightly by replacing the nut. Is this true? Are there any negatives in doing this? I work on a lot of Yamahas, which tend to have the strings jammed in towards the middle of the fretboard, and always replace the nut with one that has the strings spaced more generously. (Snicker)--so does Zager, but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anyway you can tell from this pic if the strings can be spaced farther apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Looks like there should be room to me. After you take off the old nut, leave the new one unglued for a while and switch back and forth between them. Then glue in the one you like the best. Try a bunch of hammer-ons and bends to see how you like the room on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Looks like there should be room to me. After you take off the old nut, leave the new one unglued for a while and switch back and forth between them. Then glue in the one you like the best. Try a bunch of hammer-ons and bends to see how you like the room on the edge. I'm afraid to touch it myself but if you guys think it's at least possible, I'm going to take it to my local luthier to to to it. He has a good rep in this area (Randy Wood Guitars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm afraid to touch it myself but if you guys think it's at least possible, I'm going to take it to my local luthier to to to it. He has a good rep in this area (Randy Wood Guitars). I can't see your picture on my work computer, is it the same one that Gitnoob reposted? If so you can probably squeeze a few thou on each side, but ultimately it depends on your playing style. Remember that a new nut will probably cost $70-80 so it would be worth doing the trick I described - knock it loose, slide it to the treble side until you can't play any more, slide it to the bass side and mark each location. Your tech will cut a new saddle starting with those two measurements. The next step will to be spacing the strings between - there are two schools of thought there (equal centers or equal space between them) - your tech will understand. Last thing will be the depth of the slots - thats the feel and playability at the nut end. I'll add that any time I do a setup for anyone other than myself I like to watch them play. The way they fret and bend makes a big difference on the way I like to set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulzoom Posted June 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks for the great info! I believe it's the same photo. I've only been playing for about 9 months. I mostly play chords but am starting to do some fingerpicking. I wouldn't say I play to hard and I'm just starting to do some hammer ons and slides (ie., Wish You Were Here) but nothing too extreme right now. I probably won't tell them to go all the way to the edge but just a little wider. I think that little bit will make it a little easier on me. I have trouble with the A chord right now because the strings are so tight. Don't have the same problem on my old Yamaha, which has a slightly wider neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Fat-fingered me plays a two-fingered A.Works fine for me.Can't play a three-fingered A for the life of me, not eve on my 12-stringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jkater Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Fat-fingered me plays a two-fingered A.Works fine for me.Can't play a three-fingered A for the life of me, not eve on my 12-stringers. I always play the first position A with one finger, that is, a barre with, if needed, the open high E still ringing by bending my barre for that string. Takes a bit of practice but works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks for the great info! I believe it's the same photo.I've only been playing for about 9 months. I mostly play chords but am starting to do some fingerpicking. I wouldn't say I play to hard and I'm just starting to do some hammer ons and slides (ie., Wish You Were Here) but nothing too extreme right now.I probably won't tell them to go all the way to the edge but just a little wider. I think that little bit will make it a little easier on me. I have trouble with the A chord right now because the strings are so tight. Don't have the same problem on my old Yamaha, which has a slightly wider neck. OK, my micrometer eyes say that you can probably gain a little on the bass side, not too much on the treble. If you thumb fret an F or D you run the risk of pulling the low E off. If you are going to bend the low E it will be up (away from the floor) - again, you run the risk of pushing it off. I personally think your gain will be so small as to not be worth the work. You most certainly do not want to go all the way to the edge - as I said you need at least 0.100 to avoid problems. Guitar nuts vary from about 1-11/16 to 1-3/4 for steel strings, 1-7/8 for 12's and some reso's, and all the way to 2 inches for classicals (that is fretboard width, not string) - mandolins are really skinny. Most of us learn to adapt to the small changes there - I have all of the above and play them equally poorly. Some guitars have a slight radius to the side of the fretboard, it seems to bend inwards slightly - others are more or less straight. Most of us who play fingerstyle do like wider fretboards, but for me it is the increase at the saddle that lets me get my pudgy little digits in between the strings - flat pickers don't have that problem. Lets say you can go from 0.125 to 0.100 on each side - you are only gaining 50 thou, which is five business cards. If I'm right and the high E is as close as it can go, you're gaining 2 1/2 business cards - not much for several hours of work . Definitely check with your tech - find out what it is going to cost, but frankly, if it was me, I would spends a lot of time learning to play what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted June 13, 2011 Members Share Posted June 13, 2011 I always play the first position A with one finger, that is, a barre with, if needed, the open high E still ringing by bending my barre for that string. Takes a bit of practice but works fine. Sometimes I do that, too, but in general it's two-fingered for me. I'm lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted June 14, 2011 Members Share Posted June 14, 2011 I work on a lot of Yamahas, which tend to have the strings jammed in towards the middle of the fretboard, and always replace the nut with one that has the strings spaced more generously. . . . . . Yes - I've found this to be so and have replaced several Yammie nuts. Strange why they do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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