Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I read this over at the AGF and since I'm not a member there, I thought I would bring the topic over here and get everyone's expert thoughts on this: The following is offered on Martin's website: Q: Is it safe to use medium-gauge strings on my scallop braced guitar? A: Yes it is safe. All of our six-string guitars designed for steel strings have been tested to withstand the tension of a medium gauge string. However, since each top is unique, take note if the top starts to raise abnormally. If this happens, go back to the lighter-gauge strings. Having just bought an HD28, the "If the top starts to raise abnormally?" is a bit disturbing. The recommendation is to "go back to lighter guage strings"? What kind of advice is this? Seems to me a new replacement guitar would be the correct response. Is the top of an HD28, with its scallop bracing, not truly strong enough for medium strings? AND THEN I also read this response from an AFG member: in the 50's the gauging was heavier than the current 13-56. One of my questions is what was the string gauge in the 50s that caused Martin to move to straight bracing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Opa John Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Can't help you with your question, but I've got three dreads and one of them is a Martin. I've used nothing but MSP4100 strings (PB lights) on all of my guitars for about three years now. I get all the volume I need with them and they're easier on my fingers. In fact, my luthier, who happens to be an authorized Martin dealer, recommended that I stay with light gauge strings as long as I'm not playing in some sort of bluegrass group and NEED the extra volume for lead picking. I'm a strummer and fingerstyle player, so lights do the job for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ask here, either at the Vintage or Technical subforum. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/ The AGF started as the Taylor forum, the Martin experts are at UMGF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. During WWII, CFM did away with forward bracing, and in the years after the war, eventually did away with scalloped bracing, on the dreadnoughts. A lot of dread owners then were using heavy gauge strings to get more volume, and that's what caused the problems. Scalloped bracing didn't appear again until the appearance of the HD-28 in the seventies. Martin's scalloped bracing has always been adequate for medium gauge strings though. Every HD-28 owner I know has been using medium gauge strings all along with no abnormal top bulging or other problems, including me. This was on Martin's website??? Where? Linky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. During WWII, CFM did away with forward bracing, and in the years after the war, eventually did away with scalloped bracing, on the dreadnoughts. A lot of dread owners then were using heavy gauge strings to get more volume, and that's what caused the problems. Scalloped bracing didn't appear again until the appearance of the HD-28 in the seventies. Martin's scalloped bracing has always been adequate for medium gauge strings though. Every HD-28 owner I know has been using medium gauge strings all along with no abnormal top bulging or other problems, including me. This was on Martin's website??? Where? Linky? Acoustic Guitar Forum http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240573 I have an HD-35 which has a bit thinner bracing than the HD-28 and I have 13 gauge 80/20 elixers on them. This is my #1 guitar, has incredibly low action with no buzz. I can strum and fingerpick with this guitar. Fingerpicking is unbelievably easy even though it has 13s on them. Do you think in the long run the tension from the 13s will be an issue? I love the 13s on this guitar and the way it sounds. I also read that 80/20s have a bit less tension than the phosphor bronze so I'm hoping this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 The original poster in that thread claimed to have quoted from "Martin's website," but he did not provide a link to back it up. I can't find any quote like that on Martin's website anywhere. The majority of responders in that thread agree that using medium strings on a Martin is perfectly acceptable anyway. There is a small message stamped inside most Martin dreads that says something to the effect of, "use no strings larger than medium." The HD-35 is braced lightly, but Martin still says mediums are okay. Martin is prepared to honor a lifetime warranty on that guitar, and if they were not confident that the guitar would stand up to medium strings, they would have said so. Now, if you bought it used, and have no warranty, you might sleep better by hedging your bets and using lights. But that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 The original poster in that thread claimed to have quoted from "Martin's website," but he did not provide a link to back it up. I can't find any quote like that on Martin's website anywhere. The majority of responders in that thread agree that using medium strings on a Martin is perfectly acceptable anyway.There is a small message stamped inside most Martin dreads that says something to the effect of, "use no strings larger than medium." The HD-35 is braced lightly, but Martin still says mediums are okay. Martin is prepared to honor a lifetime warranty on that guitar, and if they were not confident that the guitar would stand up to medium strings, they would have said so.Now, if you bought it used, and have no warranty, you might sleep better by hedging your bets and using lights. But that's up to you. Thank you for the info. I'll keep the mediums on for now. I also have a D-35, maybe I'll try some lights on it (12s 80/20) just to experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 It's from Maury's website, not Martin's. http://www.maurysmusic.com/martin_guitar_strings_faq In any case, I think just about every factory guitar made in the last 40 years can handle medium-gauge strings fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 From Martin's website RECOMMENDED STRINGS: Martin SP Lifespan Phosphor Bronze Medium Gauge (MSP7200) http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=m&m=HD-28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ahhh, thanks for the great answers and info. Does anyone know or want to weigh in: if I move from 13s to 12s on my D-35 would I have to re-set up the guitar (intonation) or nothing would be needed for this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 It might be useful to understand a couple of things: 1) String tension kills guitars. 2) Martin is in business to make money. So, yeah, most of the changes they made over the years were to reduce warranty claims (as opposed to improving tone). However, in recent years, they seem to have modified their model a bit. They simply charge more for guitars that are more likely to have warranty claims. Makes sense to me. In the old days (pre-1980, I guess), all of their guitars were made the same way. They advertised that quality was the same for all their guitars and they just charged more for bling. These days, they try to fill every possible niche. It seems to be working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ahhh, thanks for the great answers and info.Does anyone know or want to weigh in: if I move from 13s to 12s on my D-35 would I have to re-set up the guitar (intonation) or nothing would be needed for this change. Here are a couple of thoughts based on my very limited experience. From the UMGF String Tension FAQ, mediums at concert (E) have 189 pounds of tension, lights have 163. Mediums tuned down one half step (D#) have 169 pounds, almost the same as the lights. Try tuning down and see if the playability changes - the fretting and bending tension should feel very similar to your new lights. If you measure neck relief, action and intonation you can judge whether it has changed any (or enough for you to worry about). Some folks think relief will change, my experience is that one gauge change you'll never measure it (if it does it is easy to correct as long as your D35 is post 1980). Intonation is a function of many things including the diameter of the core wire, but since you are only changing a couple of thou again, I doubt that it will be noticable (is it spot on today?). And action may go down a hair, but again, I doubt that you'll be able to tell. If id does, that will only improve intonation. I run lights on my 40 year old D18 and it has plenty of volume (its been mildly hot rodded). My action is low and if finger picks just fine, the people that play it with a pick (I don't) don't seem to have any issues. So my other suggestion would be to just spend the five bucks for a set of lights and give them a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here are a couple of thoughts based on my very limited experience. From the UMGF String Tension FAQ, mediums at concert (E) have 189 pounds of tension, lights have 163. Mediums tuned down one half step (D#) have 169 pounds, almost the same as the lights. Try tuning down and see if the playability changes - the fretting and bending tension should feel very similar to your new lights. If you measure neck relief, action and intonation you can judge whether it has changed any (or enough for you to worry about).Some folks think relief will change, my experience is that one gauge change you'll never measure it (if it does it is easy to correct as long as your D35 is post 1980). Intonation is a function of many things including the diameter of the core wire, but since you are only changing a couple of thou again, I doubt that it will be noticable (is it spot on today?). And action may go down a hair, but again, I doubt that you'll be able to tell. If id does, that will only improve intonation.I run lights on my 40 year old D18 and it has plenty of volume (its been mildly hot rodded). My action is low and if finger picks just fine, the people that play it with a pick (I don't) don't seem to have any issues.So my other suggestion would be to just spend the five bucks for a set of lights and give them a try. Great answer thank you. I'm going to give it a try. D-35s are boomy and loud to begin with so I probably won't lose too much volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Great answer thank you. I'm going to give it a try. D-35s are boomy and loud to begin with so I probably won't lose too much volume. D-35's are incredible guitars and you won't hurt it a bit to go a little lighter. However I sure find the difference sweet on my finger tips. Report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here are a couple of thoughts based on my very limited experience. From the UMGF String Tension FAQ, mediums at concert (E) have 189 pounds of tension, lights have 163. Mediums tuned down one half step (D#) have 169 pounds, almost the same as the lights. Try tuning down and see if the playability changes - the fretting and bending tension should feel very similar to your new lights. If you measure neck relief, action and intonation you can judge whether it has changed any (or enough for you to worry about).Some folks think relief will change, my experience is that one gauge change you'll never measure it (if it does it is easy to correct as long as your D35 is post 1980). Intonation is a function of many things including the diameter of the core wire, but since you are only changing a couple of thou again, I doubt that it will be noticable (is it spot on today?). And action may go down a hair, but again, I doubt that you'll be able to tell. If id does, that will only improve intonation.I run lights on my 40 year old D18 and it has plenty of volume (its been mildly hot rodded). My action is low and if finger picks just fine, the people that play it with a pick (I don't) don't seem to have any issues.So my other suggestion would be to just spend the five bucks for a set of lights and give them a try. ^This^ I use mediums on my dreads but really never think much about string tension issues because I tune down a half step (not for guitar longevity, but because I have an aging voice and sissy fingertips). The string tension gauges I've looked at for the strings I like to use (usually D'Addario EJ17) tell me that 13/56 tuned to Eb are lighter in tension than 12/54 tuned to concert pitch. Of course, this could be an issue for you if you jam a lot/play in a band and don't want to capo up. The other $0.01 of my $0.02 on this is that IMHO, pretty much any acoustic, if used as directed, will over time develop a belly & require a neck reset. And "over time" will be shorter as bracing becomes lighter and strings become heavier. Breedlove addresses this by using a JLD bridge truss system to battle the bulge. Taylor has implemented a shim system to make neck resetting an easier task. Others just accept the inevitability of wood taking some hits in a perpetual battle against steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticdepot Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Don't Martin Dreads ship with mediums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members recordingtrack1 Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 D-35's are incredible guitars .... Hell yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Don't Martin Dreads ship with mediums? Yes they do. I started the thread because I wanted to find out more about the tension of 13s on a dread. As was pointed out it was Maury's site not Martin that indicated how medium or heavy gauge strings give greater wear to the guitar. The 12s maybe easier on your guitar but maybe we shouldn't worry so much and just play! Every guitar is different and will eventually need some work as string and wood will be working against each other. My dreads have 13s but I think I'd like to try the 12s on my D-35 to just check it out. My HD-35 with 13s is the easiest guitar I have to play. Low action no buzzing beautiful sound. I'll change the gauge when and if problems develop and I'll make the necessary repairs. Great advice from everyone on here. The answers were very interesting to me and I learned something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticDave Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I use 12's on my HD35... best guitar I've ever owned, I will have it for the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjoxyz Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I've used 13's on my HD-28 for about 6 years now, without a problem. I prefer them on all of my dreadnaughts. I eventually switched to 12's on a couple. One is an inexpensive guitar that was starting to belly badly. The other is a Seagull with a cedar top and I was just being cautious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members epi56ebony Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I put the 12s on my D-35. I did notice the volume went down and it does sound a bit less full but still sounds nice. Still in the getting to know you stage but not bad and action is a bit easier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 OT: All this talk of D-35s is giving me serious GAS. I guess that's what I get for reading these threads so early in the morning before my resistance is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 You might want to try MSP3150 (80/20 bronze) or MSP4150 (phospor/bronze) strings. They are in between medium and light gauge. They work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Burns Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Im curious if you guys are in the mind set to use mediums without ever even trying Lights . In my mind I like lights better -and their is not allot of noticable difference in volume (thou maybe just a tad ) been using the Martin SP's in light and have been extremely happy with them-long life to boot . Lights seem to be easier to handle and I can play cleaner with them . and if you have any doubt about mediums tension , maybe you should try them .One of the guitars I bought last year ( not a Martin -by the way ) had mediums on it and neck had a slight bow , after I put lights on her , a few months latter it started disappearing .I'm a believer that guitars with greater response are built lighter and should only have lights . Built like a Mac truck -than maybe you need mediums to drive the top -- Thoughts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I've always been happy with lights. Easier to play and I don't hear much volume difference, if any. Occasionally I might go for a hybrid set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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