An interview with Uli Behringer...

[skunky_funk]

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2006/mar/13/yehey/business/20060313bus14.html

 

So what should you have asked him if you did the interview?

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by skunky_funk So what should you have asked him if you did the interview?

 

 

You've lost how many patent infringement lawsuits so far?

[EngineGuitarist]

why didn't you get FCC approval for your products?

[Joe Cole]

How does it feel driving down the highway in your Bentley Continental GT/575/CL65/S8 to your villa in Monaco?

 

Do you ever, for 1 second, think about how the gear slutz like to bash you and your company but would trade places with you in the blink of an eye?

 

Whatever.

[where02190]

I'll pass on trading places with him, thanks. A little thing called morals.

[Joe Cole]

Originally posted by where02190 I'll pass on trading places with him, thanks. A little thing called morals.

 

Morals... it is fun to pick and choose

[GZsound]

I personally get a kick out of the "pick and choose" bashing.

 

Reminds me a lot of a time when another company started selling products in America.

 

It was labeled cheap crap. They were blamed for ripping off our designs and selling us junk cheaper then we could build it. They were accused of trying to put American companies out of business. Their products were pure junk. Anybody who bought their cheap knock off junk was laughed at.

 

And of course all those folks with such high "moral" standards now seem to have no problem buying a .......HONDA.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by skunky_funk http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2006/mar/13/yehey/business/20060313bus14.html So what should you have asked him if you did the interview?

 

 

Which factories in China make assemble Behringer products?

 

Are any of them slave labor camps?

 

What are the work conditions like there?

 

How is your QC done?

 

How could you have possibly thought that you would be able to design something that looked exactly like an Aphex on the inside and outside and get away with it?

 

What designs are on your xerox machine now?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

As for who would trade places with him, I would.

 

In a second.

 

After which I would immediately clean up any "messes" he made, improve the conditions of the labor (if not outright move it altogether) if appropriate, and make any other humanitarian, legal, and ethical improvements that needed improving.

[stratton]

I wouldn't trade places with him either. I'd prefer to keep my anonymous 9-5 job than to be wealthy and reviled by professional audio folks worldwide.

 

GZsound, in terms of quality and reliablility there is huge difference between the Japanese products of 35, 40 years ago and now.

[offramp]

I'm surprised the interview wasn't composed of cut-and pasted parts of other product developers' interviews.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by offramp I'm surprised the interview wasn't composed of cut-and pasted parts of other product developers' interviews.

 

[GZsound]

 

Originally posted by stratton I wouldn't trade places with him either. I'd prefer to keep my anonymous 9-5 job than to be wealthy and reviled by professional audio folks worldwide. GZsound, in terms of quality and reliablility there is huge difference between the Japanese products of 35, 40 years ago and now.

 

 

Of course. I was simply remarking about the exact same attitude. I rode a Honda Dream and a 250 Scrambler back in the 60'sand I also had a harley. I had friends that had Honda Civic's when they first came out.. The comments about the Honda bikes and cars were exactly the same as those now about Behringer.

 

And I also remember a little American company that was building "junk", "garbage" etc. back in the early 70's.. Peavey.

 

But we bought it because it was good equipment for the money and all the musicians I knew were poor. Today we have Behringer.

 

Personally, I find very little ethics in any big business. It's normally all about business.

[C JoGo]

The world market is growing much more global ...the rules are going to change drastically. Money {bottom line cost }>>> will dominate over morals, patents, etc. Whatever it takes to succeed economically ::: unfortunately.

 

The Music Trades say.. another significant progression to #19. If ethics played a hand in Uli's board meetings ..he could be at #119

[aerorockjax]

Originally posted by offramp I'm surprised the interview wasn't composed of cut-and pasted parts of other product developers' interviews.

 

[ZenFly]

Well I can fault his morals for "borrowing" designs, but the whole China thing but many other manufacturers are building and assembling in China..

 

Tascam

Mackie

 

are two I can think of. I think Vox is even doing it.

[C JoGo]

Originally posted by ZenFly Well I can fault his morals for "borrowing" designs, but the whole China thing but many other manufacturers are building and assembling in China.. Tascam Mackie are two I can think of. I think Vox is even doing it.

 

China /India/ etc. no stoppem' now > that's the new economic future best get used to it.

'Bout every century--someone else takes the baton

[UstadKhanAli]

It's difficult to get away from manufacturing in China if you want to remain competitive.

 

The thing is that Behringer refuses to verify whether their manufacturing uses Chinese slave labor, which is a whole 'nother issue. I've asked them point-blank at two trade shows, and they have said, "No comment." Others have received the same response. Now, I don't know whether they do or not, and certainly this is not proof, but if you did NOT use slave labor, why would you answer this way?

[blue2blue]

He mentions the success of the Behringer Composer (a multi-featured compressor). I had one in the 90s that was so successful it up and died less than two years after I bought it. When I researched my repair options, all I read were horror stories from people who'd shipped their Behringer gear to Germany for repair, never to hear from it again, despite numerious letters, emails, etc.

 

I was less lucky with a pair of five band para EQs I bought for over $600. They kept working. (This was before Behringer had found their natural price point in the market.) They sounded like utter crap. Sub-Radio Shack. You know how people talk about "Cheap IC Sound"? Well -- these paras are the exemplar of that.

 

So, I was over Behringer before they started making a name for themselves making shameless clones of other folks' successful designs.

 

 

 

But I'm a realist, too.

 

I always say I never have a problem recommending Behringer gear -- as LONG as you're not talking about anything over a hundred dollars.

 

 

 

On the Chinese manufacturing front, I'm a bit torn.

 

I am, by upbringing and inclination, a free market guy. But I'm also practical enough to know that a healthy market is a stable market.

 

And when trade rules and practices are suddenly changed, it has the effect, at times of destabilizing markets and throwing economic subsystems into freefall or other chaos.

 

So I'm wary of rapid market and trading rule changes.

 

 

With regard to manufacturing in China, I think to the extent that it builds a Chinese middle class and pushes up wages and standard of living in that nation it's basically good for China and it can be good for US and other nations' domestic businesses and citizens, even as its less advantageous for multinational and others who have outsourced.

 

 

[snarlz]

Can you actually be a free market guy ? I associate free market with oppressed people. Generally a lack of freedom (or 8 hour work day) involved. I think that's just a word to help us Americans feel better.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by snarlz Can you actually be a free market guy ? I associate free market with oppressed people. Generally a lack of freedom (or 8 hour work day) involved. I think that's just a word to help us Americans feel better.

 

 

It's easier to say "Oh, that's the way it is" or "free market economy" than it is to look things in the eye. And really, phrases like "free market economy" or "world economy" or whatever sounds swell, but obviously, it's not always fair.

 

What you do about it, I don't know. I certainly don't have all the answers.

 

But you can guarantee that somewhere, someone is making a lot of money by taking advantage of others (Unocal in Burma directly supporting a government that uses people bound in chains to build roads while pointing guns at them to make sure they work is one ugly example; using Chinese slave labor or sweat shops is another). I've seen sweat shops in China first-hand,and while these weren't slave labor sites, it was ugly, with children working in filthy factories with no windows for absurdly long hours and that kind of thing.

 

What do you do about it? I don't know. It's impossible to find out about everything, where it's made, etc., so I always cut people slack. Including myself. Who knows how much crap I own that was made in China or elsewhere. I'm a hypocrite, just like most others. An ugly thing that I almost wish I weren't aware of!!

[Will Chen]

When we look at world economics, we must also consider social perspective when making a moral judgement. Let's not forget the Industrial Revolution in America out of which the Child Labor Laws were born. Or the African slaves which built the south, the Asian slaves which built the railroads, the genocide of the Native Americans... Without these atrocities, America would not be the country it is today. Sad but true. How quick we are to forget our past and point the finger.

 

China is socio-economically around 100 years behind us due to their isolationist policy for so many years, however I guarantee you it will not take them 100 years to catch up. I visited Beijing in '97 and again last summer and the are having an economic boom of massive proportions. The city was unrecognizable. The middle class is growing exponentially.

 

Sure, there is still severe poverty especially in rural areas, but that is not unlike America (although the degree is more severe).

 

Give China 15 to 20 years and they will be the country searching for cheap labor abroad to reduce production costs.

 

As far as Behringer is concerned, who cares if they copy stuff. I don't buy their stuff as I've not been particularly impressed, but I would if the shoe fit. To shun them based on some moral high ground is ridiculous.

 

Has anyone actual proved that they've copied a circuit to a great degree? Let's face it, there are a myriad of companies which copy vintage circuits for pres and amps, but for some reason they get the 'boutique' label because they're not built in China. And if they did and can offer it at a fraction of the cost, I have to wonder why the 'original' was so expensive in the first place.

 

Where's the American ingenuity to build a machine to reduce production cost even below the cheap Chinese rates?

 

We saw the same zenophobic attitude with Japan and Taiwan. Foreign country builds a market dominance by offering cheap goods, Americans gobble them up, foreign countries become economically stable and devop a skilled labor market beyond manufacturing, American econmy weakens, repeat.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by wbcsound Let's not forget the Industrial Revolution in America out of which the Child Labor Laws were born. Or the African slaves which built the south, the Asian slaves which built the railroads, the genocide of the Native Americans... Without these atrocities, America would not be the country it is today. Sad but true. How quick we are to forget our past and point the finger. Has anyone actual proved that they've copied a circuit to a great degree?

 

 

Just to answer a couple of questions...

 

Who's forgotten about it? Europe and the U.S. would not be the economic powerhouses they are today if not for slavery.

 

And yes, Behringer has been successfully sued for patent infringement and been sued numerous other times for the same thing.

[Will Chen]

 

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Just to answer a couple of questions... Who's forgotten about it? Europe and the U.S. would not be the economic powerhouses they are today if not for slavery. And yes, Behringer has been successfully sued for patent infringement and been sued numerous other times for the same thing.

 

 

I stand corrected. My point is developing nations must often make the same mistakes the world powers have made in order to learn from them much in the same way our parents warn us of situations we can not appreciate until it happens to us.

 

As far as what question I would ask, it's them same question I would ask any CEO of a huge corporation...What is your vision of utopia and what are you doing to make that vision a reality for the average person...

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by wbcsound I stand corrected. My point is developing nations must often make the same mistakes the world powers have made in order to learn from them much in the same way our parents warn us of situations we can not appreciate until it happens to us.

 

 

Well, that is certainly a good point. They have an example if they choose to follow that example. But a lot of times, like children, nations may say, "Oh, well, times are different, circumstances are different, this won't happen again..." or perhaps in their desperate race to catch up to other nations (or compete with other developing nations), they'll do whatever it takes. Or a combination of the above and more....

 

With India and China developing at a dizzying pace and becoming oil-hungry, the world is going to be changing quite a bit in the near future.

[joel Oporto]

its the human nature to emulate(copy) what is good and succesful. International Copyright laws have been in existence for how long? But how long have humans been copying each other?

 

Can't make a better mousetrap? get the people who built the best mousetrap. Thats what the U.S. did when they built the atomic bomb. Thats what kia did and bought lotus elise. Thats what bill gates did with MS Dos.

 

Technology transfer is a curious thing.

The military just steal what they could whenever.

 

Don't want other people to copy your technology? Follow the lead of the military and dont sell them to your "enemies" and build them yourself.

Exploitatation? why are all these american, japanese, korean companies manufacturing their products in china exploiting the cheap labor?

Want to protect your products? Build them yourself and don't sell them to other countries. See how much you can sell.

 

Its all big business and in big business there are less and less scruples as they get more and more international.

 

How many among you use products 100% made in the U.S. of A.

with no component whatsoever built somewhere else.

 

Copyright infringement? let them pay up. But don't ever believe that america can stand by itself if it was to stop buying from china. Countless essential electonics components and products are manufactured there. The clothes you wear? your nikes and converses? Your computer parts. Your radios, hifi, phones, cellfones, your chips, your ram etc. etc.

 

Oh its ok for seagate, apple, ibm, Cisco, GM, ford, AMD, Intel etc. to make a ton of money manufacturing products there but it isn't for a non- american to do the same?

If you are an artisan say a shoe maker, and you take in an apprentice or worker to help you make more shoes so you can make more money, then don't expect that your apprentice or worker will not go out someday and make his own shoes and have more sales than you. It doesn't matter if your shoe is better than his, but if more people can afford his shoe and are satisfied with them, chances are more people will buy them.

 

Tables have been turning, The chinese already own IBM laptops.

What happened between the japanese and americans has already happened between the chinese and the japanese.

 

The corporate bright boys who first thought of the idea of having their stuff built in china or elsewhere are the ones to blame for all the mess.

 

That's where technology transfer really happened and people are crying foul with the consequences.

 

Just one of the pitfalls of free enterprise and the bigger ROI.

 

In the end... China will win....

 

with their 3 billion population.