Today's foreign-made guitars vs. yesterday's USA-made guitars

[evh1984]

I have been saying something about guitars for a few years now and it seems like no one will even stop to think about it. It seems to me that we're living in prosperous times when it comes to being pontificates of the electric guitar. You can now get an Agile SA-whatever, etc. with a solid mahaogany body, P-90 pups, and Grover tuners for under $300. You can aslo get a Gibson Les Paul with a solid mahaogany body, P-90's, and fine ratio tuners for $1200. Yet no one is giving props to the Agile, etc. for being the exact same thing as the Les Paul.

 

I think it's more of a national pride thing to admit that today's "cheapie" foreign made guitars assembled from the same stuff as their US counterparts sound as good as the US made guitars. I know there are some quality control issues w/ some foreign made guitars, but usually they're minor. Awwww...sand your own frets!

 

I can't help but believe Chinese alder sounds the same as USA alder. I can't help believe that a Chinese maple neck sounds the same as a USA maple neck. I can't help but believe Chinese Gotoh tuners stay in tune for as long as USA made Gotoh tuners. I will give the USA made pickups the thumbs up, but the foreign pickups are easily and cost affordably replaced w/ Duncans or Dimarzios w/ the money you saved buying the Agile, etc.

 

I work for a Fortune-ranked US company that's been producing luxury goods and accessories for the past 65 years. In 2001 we went public and moved our factories to China. Many panned us and said we were selling out. Today we are the WORLD'S largest and most recognized name in luxury accessories. Guess what? Our quality has never waivered. The product we make today, sewn by Chinese sewing machines and stiched by Chinese thread is the same quality, if not better, than the hand sewn Made in the USA product we put out 25 years ago.

 

I feel it's the same with guitars. If you have someone with high quality control standards, believing in the product they're presenting, who cares where it's made? That's just the way it is w/ business these days. I'd prefer my instruments be made here in the USA...but those days are going and are by and large gone. I simply can't afford USA made guitars.

 

After all my rambling let me put it this way: My Chinese OLP MM1F (pickups upgraded) sounds as good if not better than your USA Gibson Les Paul.

 

The difference is I saved $1,000.

[Alchemist]

 

Originally posted by evh1984 After all my rambling let me put it this way: My Chinese OLP MM1F (pickups upgraded) sounds as good if not better than your USA Gibson Les Paul. The difference is I saved $1,000.

 

 

 

My USA Gibson Les Paul sounds good enough on its own that I dont feel the need to justify myself by claiming it superior to others. I'll play what I like, you play what you like:wave:

[fuzzy4dice]

I agree 95%.

 

Now, I'm just going to sit back and let this unfold.

 

That being said, you are a part of a Fortune 500 company and you can't afford a couple Gibsons?

 

[markas214]

Originally posted by evh1984 I have been saying something about guitars for a few years now and it seems like no one will even stop to think about it. It seems to me that we're living in prosperous times when it comes to being pontificates of the electric guitar. You can now get an Agile SA-whatever, etc. with a solid mahaogany body, P-90 pups, and Grover tuners for under $300. You can aslo get a Gibson Les Paul with a solid mahaogany body, P-90's, and fine ratio tuners for $1200. Yet no one is giving props to the Agile, etc. for being the exact same thing as the Les Paul. I think it's more of a national pride thing to admit that today's "cheapie" foreign made guitars assembled from the same stuff as their US counterparts sound as good as the US made guitars. I know there are some quality control issues w/ some foreign made guitars, but usually they're minor. Awwww...sand your own frets! I can't help but believe Chinese alder sounds the same as USA alder. I can't help believe that a Chinese maple neck sounds the same as a USA maple neck. I can't help but believe Chinese Gotoh tuners stay in tune for as long as USA made Gotoh tuners. I will give the USA made pickups the thumbs up, but the foreign pickups are easily and cost affordably replaced w/ Duncans or Dimarzios w/ the money you saved buying the Agile, etc. I work for a Fortune-ranked US company that's been producing luxury goods and accessories for the past 65 years. In 2001 we went public and moved our factories to China. Many panned us and said we were selling out. Today we are the WORLD'S largest and most recognized name in luxury accessories. Guess what? Our quality has never waivered. The product we make today, sewn by Chinese sewing machines and stiched by Chinese thread is the same quality, if not better, than the hand sewn Made in the USA product we put out 25 years ago. I feel it's the same with guitars. If you have someone with high quality control standards, believing in the product they're presenting, who cares where it's made? That's just the way it is w/ business these days. I'd prefer my instruments be made here in the USA...but those days are going and are by and large gone. I simply can't afford USA made guitars. After all my rambling let me put it this way: My Chinese OLP MM1F (pickups upgraded) sounds as good if not better than your USA Gibson Les Paul. The difference is I saved $1,000.

You and your Fortune 500 Company are such great patriots. If You believe your OLP sounds as good as my Gibson or MIA Strat you must be a {censored}ty as hell guitar player.

[Brian Krashpad]

 

Originally posted by evh1984 After all my rambling let me put it this way: My Chinese OLP MM1F (pickups upgraded) sounds as good if not better than your USA Gibson Les Paul. The difference is I saved $1,000.

 

 

Nope.

 

Not possible.

 

I paid $525 for one of my Gibsons. $750 for the other. So, how'd you save a grand?

 

You're just a {censored}ty shopper.

 

Love,

 

BK

 

PS-- I agree otherwise with a good deal of what you say. I have many non-USA guitars in addition to my 2 Gibsons and my other USA guitars. But you overstate your premise and thus lose credibility

[stephenslr]

Quality depends on what the tolerances are.

 

Many Asian companies can make a quality product however they want to make a cheap version to cater for those who cannot afford "top of the line" - they make a killing doing this too.

 

Fender cottoned on to the fact that many people were buying cheaper guitars and they were losing out sales to these people.

 

Their solution was to create Squier guitars and have them made overseas. They tell the factories what tolerances to use and the factories follow those guidelines.

 

If you increase the tolerances then you have to pay more for the labour/machinery/materials involved so the final product is more expensive.

 

s

[cloudnine]

Maybe you just want to believe that, and you're fooling yourself.

 

Me, I'll stick to my well made stuff, and you can stick with your budget stuff.

 

[markas214]

Originally posted by evh1984 I work for a Fortune-ranked US company that's been producing luxury goods and accessories for the past 65 years. In 2001 we went public and moved our factories to China. Many panned us and said we were selling out. Today we are the WORLD'S largest and most recognized name in luxury accessories. Guess what? Our quality has never waivered. The product we make today, sewn by Chinese sewing machines and stiched by Chinese thread is the same quality, if not better, than the hand sewn Made in the USA product we put out 25 years ago. I The difference is I saved $1,000.

So you work for this big company and buy cheapo guitars? You must be the janitor. You missed a spot!

[KirkHammett1]

The "just as good, if not BETTER" phrase gets a little old around here. I think just about any Chinese/Korean knockoff is "just as good, if not BETTER" than the original its trying to copy. Point is, its something you cant help but roll your eyes at. But suppose its true, who really cares? Its like people are insecure about the name on the headstock and are trying real hard to convince themselves of their validity.

 

Stick with your OLP.

 

I'll stick with Gibson and pay 1000 bucks more for a guitar that an OLP is just as good as

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if not better.

[c4murder]

This guy has a point. Although the price still matters; you get what you paid for(especially when it comes to guitars.) It's just that some are just so very highly priced; it starts to get ridiculous.

[markas214]

Originally posted by c4murder This guy has a point. Although the price still matters; you get what you paid for(especially when it comes to guitars.) It's just that some are just so very highly priced; it starts to get ridiculous.

Yeah but he's just trolling.

[Faber]

Given a price point, the asian builders will make a fine guitar for that kind of money . The bottom of the line Squire line of course doesn't compare to neither a top US Fender nor a top flight Ibanez for that matter.

 

Still, since both asian and american guitars are imported here in Europe, and taxed to the hilt, comparative quality come at comparative prices

[sandfly]

What should I do with the $1000 I would save if I buy an Agile ?????? Put it the bank till I die ? That's not fun ....... I would rather spend the money on a guitar I will most likely keep till I die . I can always make another $1000 too .......... I have a job . .

[walt0915]

OK,

first - there are hundreds of Agile, et. al. proponents around here. I get sick of every time someone seems to think noone loves these various brands. They do, read the freakin board before you say something like that.

 

second - you can't prove your XYZ thing is identical to an LP, because it isn't. Trying to claim it is is pissing into a huricane. Stupid.

 

third - Probably if Gibson moved a plant to China they could make Gibsons just fine. Location of the plan isn't the issue. I also think Chinese make all kinds of perfectly good stuff.

 

fourth - The cost of Chinese Gibson would be close to that of an American Gibson, but not quite as high. Buyers are willing to pay more if its built by Americans - that part IS national pride.

 

fifth - A large part of the cost differential IS brand loyalty. Brand loyalty is a reality in all markets, and has been as long as there have been brands. Nothing there to be ashamed of - if people will pay more for a Gibson, Gibsons will be more expensive.

 

But even after you add all of that up, there is more there that comes down to quality and until other brands decide to build to that level that will always be the case. The problem is the high end market is limited - it is much easier to make money selling cheaper guitars that LOOK like they are the same thing.

 

And this really ends the argument. Noone wins. Cheap guitars are good, Gibsons are good, Fenders are good, and so on and so on. Why is that not a reality some people can live with? The rest of us are pretty OK with it. Don't be a Troll - we've heard it all before!

[unistudent1980]

The way I see it:

 

Gibby, PRS, Fender still make the best mass produced instruments in the world. HOWEVER, I do believe that they do overcharge for the name's they represent. I get the feeling that they charge whatever they want because they can.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=511877

 

Vs

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=517030

 

I understand that they're not exactly the same guitar and I can't comment on whether on feels/plays better than the other but IMO the Godin has better specs on paper at the same pricepoint.

[jjpistols]

[LeftyTom]

Well, most anyone can seem talented driving a Rolls Royce, but I have my eye on the person who can do 100mph in a Ford Falcon with bald bias-ply tires, on a drive fomr NYC to Jacksonville FL.

[evh1984]

"That being said, you are a part of a Fortune 500 company and you can't afford a couple Gibsons?"

 

"So you work for this big company and buy cheapo guitars? You must be the janitor."

 

"Yeah but he's just trolling."

 

 

Um, thanks for the comments, fellers.

 

I wrote what I wrote b/c I HAVE owned the USA made guitars and they, of course, sounded great! I'd always been duped into thinking anything made anywhere but here was crappy, sounded terrible, and was a waste of money. But I gradually began seeing that's no longer the case. Today's foreign jobs sound every bit as good as yesterday's USA jobs. I wish that weren't the case but it is.

 

By the way, it's not that I CAN'T afford the USA guitars, it's just that I don't see any reason any longer to spend $1,000 on a LP when I can get an Agile that looks, plays, and sounds the same for $300. Then I can make things more comfortable for my wife and son with the money saved, you know? I'll NEVER be anything other than a "parlor guitarist" as will most everyone on this board.

 

Time to inject a little reality into the situation. Sorry if it offends.

[supercow3]

Originally posted by jjpistols

 

[badshirt]

I think this discussion is a good one and would absolutely be open minded about buying an Agile or MIA or whatever.

 

However there is one thing that hasn't been taken into consideration and that is how long your guitar will last.

 

 

In high school, about 13 years ago, I bought a Fender US strat that still feels great every time I play it.

I'm not certain that an Agile will be the same way in 25 years.

 

Also, I really like playing the guitar before buying.

 

Are there shops that carry these guitars?

 

I'd love to spend a few hundred instead of $1200 but I also want to be 100% sure that the guitar will be great years from now - for me in my senior years (many years from now) or for my children.

[aclarke]

Originally posted by badshirt However there is one thing that hasn't been taken into consideration and that is how long your guitar will last. In high school, about 13 years ago, I bought a Fender US strat that still feels great every time I play it. I'm not certain that an Agile will be the same way in 25 years.

 

 

1982 Ibanez Artist. Made in Japan.

 

I will put this guitar up against (and take it over) ANY solid body guitar made in the USA in 1982. Period.

[badshirt]

Originally posted by aclarke 1982 Ibanez Artist. Made in Japan. I will put this guitar up against (and take it over) ANY solid body guitar made in the USA in 1982. Period.

 

The Japanese usually make a good quality product as well.

I just dig Strats & some Gibson models.

 

I wasn't saying quality guitars are only made in the US. I'm just not certain of the quality of a guitar that I can't personally hold and touch before I order. I haven't played an Agile. I've played some Ibanez guitars and they make some nice axes as well.

[bgmacaw]

Originally posted by badshirt I'd love to spend a few hundred instead of $1200 but I also want to be 100% sure that the guitar will be great years from now - for me in my senior years (many years from now) or for my children.

 

I think Agiles will hold up well. Higher end Japanese guitars of the 70's have held up well. I think any guitar will hold up well if it doesn't have any defects from the start and is treated right. I've got 3 70's era cheapos that were not treated right by previous owners and they're still pretty decent after my restoration work.

 

Of course, you might have a problem actually lifting an Agile in your senior years.

[badshirt]

I really would love to play and Agile and check it out.

 

Any retail shops carry these things?

[aclarke]

 

Originally posted by badshirt The Japanese usually make a good quality product as well. I just dig Strats & some Gibson models. I wasn't saying quality guitars are only made in the US. I'm just not certain of the quality of a guitar that I can't personally hold and touch before I order. I haven't played an Agile. I've played some Ibanez guitars and they make some nice axes as well.

 

 

There's a very good chance that both you and I have played Agiles - albeit with a different name on the headstock. There's a handful of factories that ghost build for small brands like Agile. I'm not too up on it anymore, but it used to be that in Korea you had Cort and Samick doing everything. Ibanez, Fender, Epiphone, Washburn, Schecter... all off the same line.

 

I agree with you about buying one sight unseen, but you've got to realize that as long as it's made of solid wood, and to modern specifications (truss rod, frets, electronics), odds are it's going to last just as long as the one made in the states.

 

Any guitar can be made to play well, unless it's got serious structural problems - like the bridge is set wrong, or the neck is badly twisted. Rough fret ends can be fixed with two cans of beer and a copy of "Live at Leeds" (you need files, too). Scratchy pots = screwdriver and a can of Deoxit. 5 minutes. Pickups are so subjective that there's no point in discussing them, IMO - wha't good for me might not work for you.

 

My 2yen, anyways.