Today's foreign-made guitars vs. yesterday's USA-made guitars

[Alchemist]

Originally posted by ExtraGum Some of the best bang-for-the-buck guitars around are Rickenbackers. $1100 for a deluxe made in usa hollowbody with the fancy inalys and binding, etc? I don't know of a better value.

Better yet, their 650 Dakota in walnut can be found for $700 new. What a great guitar that is!

[ExtraGum]

Originally posted by Alchemist Better yet, their 650 Dakota in walnut can be found for $700 new. What a great guitar that is!

I concur.

[Alchemist]

What a beauty, Is that yours?

Thats a guitar for my gas list:) I wish I had about 10K to spend but I have a bunch of other things to buy first, hopefully there will be no big price hikes on these in the next few years:(

[ExtraGum]

Originally posted by Alchemist What a beauty, Is that yours? Thats a guitar for my gas list:) I wish I had about 10K to spend but I have a bunch of other things to buy first, hopefully there will be no big price hikes on these in the next few years:(

 

 

Yeah, that one's mine. It's quite nice, but it's fallen out of my rotation lately. I picked up 3 guitars in late '05 that have taken all my time, but I make an effort to rotate stuff, so she'll make it out of her case again sometime soon.

[walt0915]

Originally posted by cloudnine I agree with telephant, anyone who buys an LP from Gibson is just silly at this point.

 

 

This discussion ALWAYS degenerates into this. Why is it the Gibson guys never come out and say the reverse? Why do some people feel they have to tell everyone what they should buy. Most Gibson owners will say they have no problem if you want to buy a Tokai - why do the Tokai owners have an issue with someone wanting a Gibson? Why would anyon care at all what someone else wants to buy?

 

If the owners of the Tokai/Agile/etc. brands didn't care about Gibson, didn't WANT a Gibson, they would never feel the need to enter into these kinds of discussions. There is no other motivation that makes sense.

 

THAT is just silly.

[Alchemist]

Originally posted by ExtraGum Yeah, that one's mine. It's quite nice, but it's fallen out of my rotation lately. I picked up 3 guitars in late '05 that have taken all my time, but I make an effort to rotate stuff, so she'll make it out of her case again sometime soon.

 

 

Hmm would that do well for prog jazz fusion? I havent really had enough time to play with one in order to decide.

[dimmypage]

Originally posted by Bbreaker What Chinese made guitar is better than it's american counterpart? .......or rather, what guitar clone from China is better than the American original? Most companies from Asia start out by cloning American guitar shapes. Duh.

And we Americans wonder why people from other nations hate us.

[Brewski]

Here's awar that will never end.

MY BOTTOM LINE - I AIN'T BUYIN' No thing that's 126% more expensive for the same thing.

If you're such patriots then why is GM and Ford having problems selling their cars?

Are you telling me Gibson maes a better guitar becasue it's made in america but Ford/GM don't make good cars becuase they're made in America?

What the Hell?

[stephenslr]

Originally posted by Brewski If you're such patriots then why is GM and Ford having problems selling their cars?

 

 

Advertising, marketing as well as quality.

 

For GM and Ford to attain the quality of Euro vehicles they would have to increase their tolerances (maybe even re-design some features) and that would make their vehicles very expensive.

 

Then they have to gamble whether people will fork out that much money for a very expensive US car. A big marketing exercise to turn people from their Euro cars will also be very expensive.

 

Also when was the last time you bought a USA made TV, Video, etc.?

 

s

[fuzzy4dice]

Originally posted by ExtraGum Some of the best bang-for-the-buck guitars around are Rickenbackers. $1100 for a deluxe made in usa hollowbody with the fancy inalys and binding, etc? I don't know of a better value.

+1

[markaf19]

Maybe its just me maybe i've been brain washed but when i buy a copy i still lust after the real thing, i am left unsatisfied as i believe are alot of people. Not necessary because the copy is a bad player but because everyone all ways wants the top of the line item, or what is perceived as top of the line. For example i bought a epiphone elitist LP In the AMS blow out. The guitar is a dam good player, everytime i go to lessons my instructor tells me how nice it is, wants to mess around with it. I like the guitar but in the back of my mind i know once some of my other guitar lusts are fulfilled Americna deluxe strat, ES-335, and SG standard, i am going to get a gibson LP. That is the reason i personally won't buy any other knock anytime soon.

[cloudnine]

I'll rephrase.

Noone should pay what Gibson is asking for an LP standard.

Fortunately, there are still some good dealers out there.

[stephenslr]

Originally posted by markaf19 Maybe its just me maybe i've been brain washed but when i buy a copy i still lust after the real thing, i am left unsatisfied as i believe are alot of people.

 

 

You are not alone and yes status has a lot to do with it. People want to be seen playing what is perceived to be better.

 

Play what you can and you decide what you like better, play with your eyes closed if you have to.

 

If you prefer a model that is not high up there on the trend list then keep playing that model and tell all your friends - if it really is a good guitar one day it will be well regarded (or underrated), you will have the satisfaction of knowing you played what you liked best.

 

Rolls Royces have a lot of prestige but some of them are a real bomb to drive.

 

s

[dimmypage]

Originally posted by markaf19 Maybe its just me maybe i've been brain washed but when i buy a copy i still lust after the real thing, i am left unsatisfied as i believe are alot of people. Not necessary because the copy is a bad player but because everyone all ways wants the top of the line item, or what is perceived as top of the line. For example i bought a epiphone elitist LP In the AMS blow out. The guitar is a dam good player, everytime i go to lessons my instructor tells me how nice it is, wants to mess around with it. I like the guitar but in the back of my mind i know once some of my other guitar lusts are fulfilled Americna deluxe strat, ES-335, and SG standard, i am going to get a gibson LP. That is the reason i personally won't buy any other knock anytime soon.

Thats what the "Icons" bank on.

[Mr.Mow]

Originally posted by telephant Gibson Les Pauls are the most overpriced guitars out there. The Japanese knock offs (edwards, tokai) are easily the same quality. And dare I say better. Made in the USA isnt always better. People, especially americans, are just morons. Most of our {censored} isnt even made in the USA anyways. And Im a Texan.

See... I've had (in order of cost) a chinese Epi LP, Korean Epi LP, Japanese Edwards LP, Japanese Epi LP and now a US Gibson custom shop LP..

And you know what.. the Gibson was worth every cent.. Sold all the others, the Edwards I may hang onto for practical purposes (and it is a damn nice guitar).. End of the day the Gibson always feels like the real deal.

[larryguitar]

Originally posted by ExtraGum Yeah, that one's mine. It's quite nice, but it's fallen out of my rotation lately. I picked up 3 guitars in late '05 that have taken all my time, but I make an effort to rotate stuff, so she'll make it out of her case again sometime soon.

 

 

You are now REQUIRED to post some clips of that git. I'm seriously lusting after one of those, but haven't seen one to play around home.

 

 

P-L-E-A-S-E!!!?

 

 

Larry

[Fiverz]

This debate will never end, as someone mentioned earlier. The US/Gibson/Fender camp will always think their product is superior and will always pay more for the brand names, USA labor, and better materials. The import camp will always think their product is at least on-par and will always save money for no-names, foreign labor, and (sometimes) inferior materials. When in reality it's probably somewhere in the middle (at least in my experience). There is no one here that can tell me that every single Gibson Les Paul sounds better than every single Tokai. There's differences in the same lines, same trees, same everything. But likewise anyone that thinks their Agile can really beat out a perfect Custom Shop Les Paul is ridiculous.

 

Shades of gray people, not black and white.

 

I, with my meager income, am happy with my Mexican and Korean axes. They are close enough to (but not exactly the same as) the americans for what I do, so it does not matter. Yes I will some day have a Gibby LP Custom when I can afford it. But I see no need for it now, even if I had the money.

 

Really, aside from the extremes that I mentioned above, no side can really diss the other side as long as they are happy with what they have respectively.

[inHK]

Regarding Les Pauls, I recently got the real thing, a new Standard. It is an unbelievable guitar.

However, given the extremely positive experience I have had with Fender Japan, I am definitely willing to keep an open mind on 'foreign' guitars. For example, I am very interested in trying a Tokai LP.

But I think it is a stretch to say that a $250 Agile is 'as good as or better than' a Gibson. That's just silly.

[underblu]

There are good imported guitars and some less so. SE line from Korea is outstanding. RavenWest and Michael Kelly appear to have gotten solid reviews though I haven't experienced them first hand -gain Korean made. And of course Agiles appear to have quite a fan club

However there are imports like OLP. I'd have to say I would prefer to play a shovel than an OLP. Worst sound and quality control I have seen. And Earnie Ball who makes outstanding basses Stingray even the affordable SUB should be ashamed of himself for licensing his design to a cheap imitator.

But of course money talks which is why some Fortune 500 companies are happy to fire American workers move factories overseas and have goods made by children in sweatrshops for 25 cents an hour. This way companies can afford to pay Tiger Woods and other athletes that don't really need the money, 50 million dollars for a promo piece and billions on advertising.

This is not to say your particular company is a culprit but when ever I hear about overseas sewing I think about $90.00 jeans that cost $2.00 to make thanks to sweatshop labor so that Clavin Klien, P Diddy and many in the limosuine liberal set can buy another 50 million dollar mansion while whining on about the environment and unfairness in society.

Oh sorry I got off on a tangent couldn't help myself.

Frankly that American made guitars hold some cache imo is a good thing. -even if much of the production is generated from CNC machines.

[fretmonster]

Back in the early eighties I had a friend that got a nice fat insurance settlement and plunked eight grand or so on a state of the art stereo system with a rack and seperate components. Actually come to think of it, I had a couple friends that layed out some big bucks on "audiophile" stereo equipment - nakamichi, Klipshorns, Denon, JBL - some of the names I remember and 100 watts was deriguer. I couldn't afford that stuff and ended up picking up a 30 watt optonica system at a clearance sale and getting some decent American RTR speakers. These guys used to talk for days about their superior transient response fidelity and dynamic range among other absurd things. I got a little insecure about my system for awhile until I finally realized it was all I needed (actually it was very comparable in the performance department and I'm certain they knew it).

You know that little system that cost me less than a thousand dollars is still runnin strong in my living room and still sound great IMO. I know for a fact that my friend that spent over 8 grand had some serious problems with his system for awhile which cost some serious cash to repair - something I still haven't experienced after twenty five years with mine.

So are all Asian guitars comparable in quality to American guitars costing thousands more - no way in hell IMO. But as with stereo equipment, the higher you get, the price increases exponentially. In other words, price is incommensurate with increase in quality in the highend stuff. Furthermore, like luxury cars, a premium is paid for the status of ownership of premium brand names.

I own five Korean made guitars, four American, one Mexican and one Japanese. They are all of comparable professional quality IMO - but the imports were generally top of the line. They all have excellent electronics IMO - no scratchy pots, controls don't cut off abruptly, hold tune well, intonate properly and have good playing necks. I changed the pus on two of the Koreans (Ibanez and Dillion) but the old ones were not that bad. I don't have any Tom Andersons, PRS or even Gibsons but all who have played or heard my Custom shop Washburns, my Hamer, my Ibanez, my Dillion, my early mex Fender, my Brawleys or even my 60s Harmony (American) knows they are comparable. Anyway, they're certainly all I need, and that's really the bottom line.

[sandfly]

Originally posted by Brewski If you're such patriots then why is GM and Ford having problems selling their cars?

At least know what your talking about ........ Do a google search or something ....... GM is the largest car manufaturer in the world . 2005 was GM's second best year for car sales . The GM Chevy line in 2005 sold as many cars as Ford did all year .

Here's a few paragraphs from some of the links I posted ......

"Nevertheless, as the Detroit Free Press headlined "GM: NOT SO FAST, TOYOTA ." GM announced its 2005 worldwide sales as 9.18 million units, up from 8.99 million the year before, a bit more than a million ahead of Toyota 's global 8.1 million. Makes one wonder what motivated Toyota to make its "throwing down the gauntlet" prediction it would surpass GM - or was it all new media hype?
General Motors sold over 9 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, surpassing that mark for only the second time in its history (the only other year that this happened was in 1978). The total of 9.17M vehicles provided a 2% bump from its 2004 numbers .".........



........."General Motors sold over 9 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, surpassing that mark for only the second time in its history (the only other year that this happened was in 1978). The total of 9.17M vehicles provided a 2% bump from its 2004 numbers.

While the company's North American operations continue to suffer, performance in its three other regions of operation - Asia Pacific, Europe, and Latin America/Middle East/Africa - outpaced the markets in those areas, and led to GM selling more vehicles overseas than in the US for the first time ever. Probably the most encouraging news comes from China, where GM became the top foreign automaker last year.".....

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/16/gms-2005-worldwide-sales-were-the-strongest-in-over-25-years/

http://www.gm.com/company/corp_info/profiles/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/2005_The_Sales_Year_in_Review.S175.A9879.html

http://polymers.sabic-europe.com/news/_en/generalmotors_003.htm

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84530&p=irol-salesproduction

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/ford_gm_no1.html

Oh ya I like LP's .........

[fretmonster]

Originally posted by underblu when ever I hear about overseas sewing I think about $90.00 jeans that cost $2.00 to make thanks to sweatshop labor so that Clavin Klien, P Diddy and many in the limosuine liberal set can buy another 50 million dollar mansion while whining on about the environment and unfairness in society.

 

 

Just to set the record straight, this administration has set a record for all-time greatest trade deficit as well as other ignominous distinctions. As a matter of fact it provided tax cuts to businesses that sent American jobs overseas.

 

You were doing so well up to that point but get your facts straight please!!!

[jjpistols]

[underblu]

I guess in my tirade against world injsutice I forgot to mention a couple more on topic observations

In general given what a dollar buys now days, an American made guitar by Fender, Gibson and PRS is a bargain particularly if your a smart shopper.

An LP or PRS nicely configured if bought lightly used can be had for under 2k and American Stat or Tele under 1k. For an object that can bring enjoyment over a lifetime neither of those prices seem particularly steep to me. And of course if you have the means there are also many American custom shops that still make their guitars by hand.

I have to say I have found that whenever I have done with less but bought quality I have rarely regretted the purchase. I can't say the same thing for a lot of so called bargains I have purchased over the years. Although genuine bargain gems do pop out once in a while.

[underblu]

Hi Fretmonster: I hope I didn't give you the wrong impression I think both parties completely suck and the only difference I can tell between the two regards gay marriage and abortion.

Working folk who earn between $80,000 and 175,000 still pay a higher tax rate than multimillionaire entertainers or CEO's etc., Not that I have anything against making money ity's just that between sales tax, property tax, state tax, income tax, skyrocketing insurance costs I frankly feel that the middle class and this couintry are getting screwed and neither party has proposed anything to ease that burden.

Frankly, I was hoping the republicans would pass tort reform against these ludicrous jury awards that would at least hold back the spriraling cost of health, and business liability insurance stc. Maybe fewer jobs would be sent oversees if insurance costs per employee weren't so astronomical.

But the Democrats are in tight with Big Media, Trial attorneys, while the republicans saddle up with Big Oil and the NRA. The Democrats have Jesse Jackson as their hardcore poster boy while the Republicans have Pat Robertson. What's to like about either party.

You got democrats proposing legislation that allows the RIAA to circumvent the law stiffle digital innovatiion and throw children into jail while saddling their parents with tens of thousands in monetary fines all for the crime of file swapping (better mske sure your wireless router is secure) and Republicans who fought tooth and nail against any suggestion that oil companies cut their profit margins to provide some relief from the high cost of gasoline post Katrina.

I could go on but this is a guitar forum and I alredy feel guilty for ranting on again.