Today's foreign-made guitars vs. yesterday's USA-made guitars

[lukebe]

I agree with EVH 1984. As an european I'm confronted wtih verry high prices for US-made guitars. As I own a strat69 and owned a few Gibsons I know what I'm talking about. It is quit normal that you start looking for alternatives and than you can be surprised by the quality of some chinese made instruments.

I recently bought a Gretsch Electromatic Elliot Easton (made in China) and had the chance to try the US-made too. I confess, there was a little difference ( quality of pods ), but not that much that it could explain the difference. The electromatic costs 700 euro's, the 'real' thing nearly 3 000 euro's.

The same story with a Ibanez AF 85 VLS. I bought it new for 360 euro's. If you compare it with American archtops... You only have to read the reviews and conclude that US-made guitars are way overpriced. But you have to be honest, they have allways been expensive but haven't become more expensive the last decenia. The alternatives have becom cheaper.

 

I also own a Godin GLX. On the case is the following remark: 'made in Canada, assembled in the USA'. Why is that: because some people think that everything that comes out of the US is better... I know now that US made guitars are fantastic (love my Fender), but my ears tell me that other guitars are fantastic aswell, but less expensive.

[badshirt]

I was in Japan last year. I wish I had checked out some music stores.

 

I'm going to Italy this year: anybody know of sweet Italian guitars?

 

Ha ha.

[markas214]

Originally posted by aclarke 1982 Ibanez Artist. Made in Japan. I will put this guitar up against (and take it over) ANY solid body guitar made in the USA in 1982. Period.

Yeah but that was never a budget guitar. It's a Japanese Ibanez which is a lot better than a Chinese OLP. I am not saying all Asian guitars are junk. They just aren't as good as the USA Gibsons. As Walt sais "A large part of the cost differential IS brand loyalty. Brand loyalty is a reality in all markets, and has been as long as there have been brands. Nothing there to be ashamed of - if people will pay more for a Gibson, Gibsons will be more expensive." I like being able to play a Gibson. It makes me feel as though I've made it. My hard work and success is worth an expensive guitar.

 

[Bbreaker]

 

Originally posted by evh1984 I have been saying something about guitars for a few years now and it seems like no one will even stop to think about it. It seems to me that we're living in prosperous times when it comes to being pontificates of the electric guitar. You can now get an Agile SA-whatever, etc. with a solid mahaogany body, P-90 pups, and Grover tuners for under $300. You can aslo get a Gibson Les Paul with a solid mahaogany body, P-90's, and fine ratio tuners for $1200. Yet no one is giving props to the Agile, etc. for being the exact same thing as the Les Paul. I think it's more of a national pride thing to admit that today's "cheapie" foreign made guitars assembled from the same stuff as their US counterparts sound as good as the US made guitars. I know there are some quality control issues w/ some foreign made guitars, but usually they're minor. Awwww...sand your own frets! I can't help but believe Chinese alder sounds the same as USA alder. I can't help believe that a Chinese maple neck sounds the same as a USA maple neck. I can't help but believe Chinese Gotoh tuners stay in tune for as long as USA made Gotoh tuners. I will give the USA made pickups the thumbs up, but the foreign pickups are easily and cost affordably replaced w/ Duncans or Dimarzios w/ the money you saved buying the Agile, etc. I work for a Fortune-ranked US company that's been producing luxury goods and accessories for the past 65 years. In 2001 we went public and moved our factories to China. Many panned us and said we were selling out. Today we are the WORLD'S largest and most recognized name in luxury accessories. Guess what? Our quality has never waivered. The product we make today, sewn by Chinese sewing machines and stiched by Chinese thread is the same quality, if not better, than the hand sewn Made in the USA product we put out 25 years ago. I feel it's the same with guitars. If you have someone with high quality control standards, believing in the product they're presenting, who cares where it's made? That's just the way it is w/ business these days. I'd prefer my instruments be made here in the USA...but those days are going and are by and large gone. I simply can't afford USA made guitars. After all my rambling let me put it this way: My Chinese OLP MM1F (pickups upgraded) sounds as good if not better than your USA Gibson Les Paul. The difference is I saved $1,000.

 

 

 

It's good that you saved $1000.00 since you can't tell the difference between aUSA made Les Paul and an Agile.

[markas214]

Originally posted by Bbreaker It's good that you saved $1000.00 since you can't tell the difference between aUSA made Les Paul and an Agile.

LOL. True. If you can't tell the difference why spend the extra cash on a guitar when it would be better spent on guitar lessons or perhaps a hearing aid.

[Bbreaker]

 

Aside from the difference in color, there are major differences between these two guitars.

[Bbreaker]

Here's a yesterday budget guitar from Gibson.

No frills.

Nothing flashy.

Comes with Brazillian rosewood fretboard, holly veneer headstock and Honduras mahogany body.

Buy a budget Jr style single p/u guitar today from a foreign market and tell me if it's better than this. I'd really like to know who is building it better or just as good.

 

[chikinpox]

I don't want to get too involved in this conversation, I just figured I'd throw in a little anecdote if it helps. NPR had a story a few months back about American companies moving their production overseas. The pros are the basic "cheap labor and low production costs". The biggest con was unskilled laborers. The example they gave was an American auto parts company that had parts produced in America and China. The American parts (though using the same basic materials) were far superior to the Chinese. If there was a problem on the production line, the American workers knew exactly how to identify the problem, and how to fix it. The Chinese workers were not experienced enough to do the same.

 

Despite all this there was an overwhelming consensus that the Chinese manufacturers were getting much better and, given the time, will one day be able to match the American quality at a much lower price. I believe some of this translates over to guitars, but I'll leave that debate you guys.

[chikinpox]

Keep in mind that story was only talking about Chinese factories, not Asian factories in general.

[Alchemist]

Originally posted by Bbreaker Here's a yesterday budget guitar from Gibson. No frills. Nothing flashy. Comes with Brazillian rosewood fretboard, holly veneer headstock and Honduras mahogany body. Buy a budget Jr style single p/u guitar today from a foreign market and tell me if it's better than this. I'd really like to know who is building it better or just as good.

 

Good point, especialy when you consider that Gibson is selling these for essentialy $650 these days, they were even cheaper before the recent price hike. I am yet to play any foreign equivalent junior copy that could beat it for the price. I played a very nice Tokai, which was neither better nor worse, but the tokai actualy cost more here because of the shipping and customs charges for importing it.

[C-4]

While this may be true for some products, there are other products that are different.

 

Just in the guitar department, where does the wood come from that the Chinese use for making their guitars vs. where does the American wood for a similar guitar come from? How was it dried?

What are the quality of the metal parts being used?

 

I could go on, but you get the picture.

 

Without the intimate details of each part and how it is assembled by each company in both China and America or other foreign countries, I'll stick with the known quantities, price be damned.

 

By the by, I had an OLP similar to the one you are describig, and while it was a nice guitar for the money spent, it was NOT near the quality of an EBMM of the same model.

[supercow3]

I think people generally just discriminate items that comes from China because they immedietly thin it has bad quality. Not all items produced in China or any other asian countries are produced badly. Yes many are but not all of them.

[jdjonsson]

I was looking at some vintage strats the other day, and I couldn't help thinking that my MIM strat uses the same parts, seems to be put together the same, and probably can sound just as good. (Just not with me playing it.)

 

Anyway, thats my $.02

[Bbreaker]

Originally posted by supercow3 I think people generally just discriminate items that comes from China because they immedietly thin it has bad quality. Not all items produced in China or any other asian countries are produced badly. Yes many are but not all of them.

 

What Chinese made guitar is better than it's american counterpart?

 

.......or rather, what guitar clone from China is better than the American original?

 

 

Most companies from Asia start out by cloning American guitar shapes.

Duh.

[Kevman]

 

Maybe you just want to believe that, and you're fooling yourself.

 

 

Me, I'll stick to my well made stuff, and you can stick with your budget stuff.

 

 

Maybe well made and budget are not mutually exclusive.

[Hard Truth]

I have bought several Korean guitars in the last three years and I think they provide excellent bang for buck.

 

But I have reservations about Chinese guitars.

1. I've never seen or tried one that I know of.

 

2. The Chinese are just getting into making guitars so they lack experience.

 

3. Many Chinese products are made with slave labor, in particular political prisoners.

China has turned into a mostly capitalistic country, but they are not a free country. They have a terrible record on human rights and environmental issues.

 

Reason #3 will keep me from buying Chinese guitars and most other products.

[LaXu]

Originally posted by C-4 While this may be true for some products, there are other products that are different. Just in the guitar department, where does the wood come from that the Chinese use for making their guitars vs. where does the American wood for a similar guitar come from? How was it dried? What are the quality of the metal parts being used? I could go on, but you get the picture. Without the intimate details of each part and how it is assembled by each company in both China and America or other foreign countries, I'll stick with the known quantities, price be damned. By the by, I had an OLP similar to the one you are describig, and while it was a nice guitar for the money spent, it was NOT near the quality of an EBMM of the same model.

 

I completely agree. There are many different woods sold under the name "mahogany." While they all belong to the same family of trees, that doesn't mean they're the same. Higher end guitars usually use African or Brazilian mahogany while lower cost guitars have Indonesian or some other type of mahogany. For hardware it's the same, materials do differ. That tune-o-matic on your $200 Chinese guitar is not necessarily made of the same material or with the same manufacturing process (cast vs. machined for example) as the one on a $2000 guitar.

 

Now, obviously if you were to use the exact same hardware and woods in a Chinese and American factory, the results would most likely be very similar depending on quality control and accuracy of the machines and workers. In this sense it doesn't matter where something is made, HOW it's made and of WHAT materials is what matters. I think Yamaha is a good example here: their guitars come from various countries - Japan, Taiwan, Korea, China, Indonesia. What is apparent with guitars from each country is that they make sure high quality control is applied in the making. The materials get better as you go towards higher end models but everything from the low end Pacifica 112 to top end SG3000 is a fine vehicle for making music.

 

With that said, I feel that many of the Fenders and Gibsons sold here in Finland have a very bad price-quality ratio. Especially Gibsons..if not for the name I don't see why one would buy one considering the production line models cost as much as a handmade custom guitar from a domestic luthier. Brand name premiums and taxes inflate the prices a lot and I've seen quite a few "duds" from F and G.

 

I tend to buy what I consider good value for money. I can't afford custom guitars (or guitars priced in that range) so I stick to Asian guitars. I've got guitars made in Japan, Korea and Taiwan. They're all good. Not perfect, but then few guitars are. I've got a strat and a Les Paul copy that I like more than most of the F and G guitars I've tried. To me the brand name has little value and the same goes for the country it's made in. What matters is the quality of the guitar. There are many Korean and Chinese guitars that suck just as there are many that are very nice. I tend to stay away from big brands and their lower cost models because they are often deliberately made worse than their higher end (often USA made) models - they wouldn't want their cheaper models competing with the high end ones now would they?

 

Could you guess where these guitars are coming from if you didn't see the name on the headstock?

 

[telephant]

Gibson Les Pauls are the most overpriced guitars out there. The Japanese knock offs (edwards, tokai) are easily the same quality. And dare I say better.

 

Made in the USA isnt always better. People, especially americans, are just morons. Most of our {censored} isnt even made in the USA anyways.

 

And Im a Texan.

[cloudnine]

Originally posted by Kevman Maybe well made and budget are not mutually exclusive.

 

Fine, but I'll still stick to my USA-made stuff.

 

It's not a patriotism thing, or a discrimination thing, it's just my choice to do so.

 

The guy is just fooling himself.

[cloudnine]

Originally posted by telephant Gibson Les Pauls are the most overpriced guitars out there. The Japanese knock offs (edwards, tokai) are easily the same quality. And dare I say better. Made in the USA isnt always better. People, especially americans, are just morons. Most of our {censored} isnt even made in the USA anyways. And Im a Texan.

 

I agree with telephant, anyone who buys an LP from Gibson is just silly at this point.

[badshirt]

Les Pauls are very overpriced - and way overhyped. I see about a dozen or so at every music store but see a only see a couple of SGs.

 

LP = too much money. Enough.

[zac503]

One thing that we have to realize is what parts of the guitar are actually valued.

 

I think the most important issues that are to be considered when buying a guitar are

 

1. playability

2. stays in tune

3. natural sustain

4. quality of the craftmanship

 

Now for the most part on a modern electric guitar, playability is highly achievable with modifications to string height and hardware.

 

As far as tuning goes is mainyl relys on the hardware and the tuners. sure a reliable neck is required but for the most part modern foreign guitars wont fall apart when you're playing them.

 

One of the biggest differences I can see between guitars is the level of natural sustain. I've played cheap guitars that have great sustain and I've played US made fenders that are absolutely terrible. Now my gibson LP studio will ring forever and I absolutely love it. But so will my friends $200 Ibanez artcore.

 

And last issue is the quality of how the thing is put together. All hardware on a guitar is capable of being replaced in case of problems, and I know that most of you can't say that you haven't changed pickups or hardware on your high end instruments as well as your low end ones. And most people will have to have work on any guitar they play seriously for a few years.

 

All this said, I have to say that I would take an american guitar anyday over a foreign copy. I mentioned that I have a gibson les paul studio and I have to say that I love it to death. There is a certain honor in owning a fine instrument that I can't imagine being achieved in a low budget instrument.

 

I may be biased seeing as I didnt actually pay for my lp (my parents got it for me for $600 used) but when I compare my guitar to my friends budget guitars ( he has 2 electrics and 2 acoustics ) I constantly see my guitar as being more flexible, and of higher quality.

 

On the other end of the spectrum though, I really enjoy playing my friends guitars somtimes, for a myriad of different reasons. He has a $200 ibanez g-something (it's an sg style guitar) which is a fantastic guitar. It has a wider neck that my lp and it's just easier to play.

 

Also, when I compare my new martin dc-16gte to his really old goya c or g -300 I find that I actually like the sound on his better than mine, even though mine cost $1000 more.

 

I know this is a long post but I think I've made my point that the majority of instruments are allright, and the main reason we have preferences is that each instrument is different. I enjoy almost every guitar I play for different reasons whether it be playability or the sound it makes. I know that a copy may never sound the exact as an original, but can any guitar say that?

 

I think most of the quality issues we see from the foreign guitars is that they dont sound like the original because they arent exactly the same. some have thinner necks, some have different pickups and vice versa. It's all just a matter of what we like and what we don't like. You may like fenders and gibson but you probably dont like every fender made, or every gibson.

[Alchemist]

Originally posted by cloudnine I agree with telephant, anyone who buys an LP from Gibson is just silly at this point.

 

Almost as silly as $1200 for a single pickup FR bolt-on:eek:

 

People should buy what they want, pay what they want for it. If they are happy, thats all that matters.

[markas214]

Originally posted by cloudnine I agree with telephant, anyone who buys an LP from Gibson is just silly at this point.

I will say that Gibson still has some guitars that are reasonably priced. I paid $1499 for my LP Deluxe and from what I've played before and since, including Asian, it is worth every single penny. The Standards though have have reached a very unreasonablr price point but I'd still rather have that than an Agile even if I have to pay $1400 more then the top Agile LP copy. My money, my preference.

[ExtraGum]

Some of the best bang-for-the-buck guitars around are Rickenbackers.

 

$1100 for a deluxe made in usa hollowbody with the fancy inalys and binding, etc? I don't know of a better value.