Bass Direct: How to Make it Cut

[Deeprig9]

When recording direct into Cubase with a bass guitar, what are some tricks to make it "cut" ? Tube preamp is already in use. Any EQ tricks?

[egelmett]

I suppose this depends on your definition of "cuts". Cuts means to me a high-end presence. A Musicman bass cuts more than a Fender Precision...just based on the guitar's natural voice. So of course, the source is important.

 

To me, articulate is a better way of describing the voicing of the bass. Do I want the bass more or less articulate? Articulation, to me, means a reasonable balance of low and high, and the relationship of it sonically to the other instruments.

 

However, given a situation like yours when the bass is already recorded, here are some ideas:

 

You could simply notch up the 1k-3k range to bring this out more. Compression might help raise the lower volume notes up and balance the tone overall.

 

However, you might want to consider other strategies as well. Again, this all depends on the song and instrumentation...

 

High pass the bass itself around 60hz, approximately. Depending on the relationship of the kick, might help the bass punch through more since less low frequency energy is being output...

 

Highpass the guitars, especially if they're distorted up to 200-300hz. This allows for the body of the bass to poke through.

 

If there's simply a lack of highend in the bass output itself, you might consider a light distortion to pickup the higher harmonics.

 

Perhaps try Voxengo's Boogex cabinet simulator to alter the character of the bass tone.

 

Or, probably the most appropriate appoach, lower the volume of the other instruments to let more bass through.

 

To me, the source bass is the most important aspect in articulation, and the player of course. My Musicman has to be tamed in the highend where my Yamaha RBX could always use a little lift in the highend.

 

A player who uses a pick will naturally have more cut versus a finger player. Put that together with the make of the bass and you have all sorts of considerations in regards to articulation.

 

I wouldn't say there are tricks, but yeah most obviously increase the highend eq for a start.

[T. Alan Smith]

I record w/o EQ. If I want foundation in a mix, I use a Precision-type bass with flatwounds. If I want cut, I'll use a MusicMan-type with rounds. As mentioned, adding a hair of overdrive will help cut as well. So, for me, it's not in the EQ, it in the source material(s).

[Lee Knight]

Look between 700 and 900 Hz to bump up. Don't roll on a ton of low end either...

[Ethan Winer]

 

Any EQ tricks?

 

 

Often when a bass track is not cutting through a mix it is because of a clash with similar frequencies from other instruments. Especially rhythm guitar and piano chords, which often have a lot of energy in the "speaking" range of an electric bass.

 

Try sending the bass to a separate output bus. Then EQ the bass to have a 1-3 dB boost at 300 Hz with a Q of 1, and apply a similar CUT to the other bus so that frequency is reduced from all other tracks. 300 Hz works well for many bass sounds, but try other frequencies between 200 and 400 Hz and see which makes the bass clearest and still keeps the tone you want.

 

Also, you don't really have to use two buses. If only one or two tracks are clashing with the bass you can EQ them individually to have a cut opposite to what you boost on the bass track. This is a proven trick that works with other instruments and other frequencies too. Like 800-1200 Hz to make a vocal stand out better, and so forth.

 

--Ethan

[Dean Roddey]

If you are doing heavy rock, one thing you can do is clone the track. On the cloned track, band pass it in the 500Hz to 2K'ish range, then put a distortion plug on it, like Izotope Trash, and compress it fairly heavily. Mix that into the original. It gives it a higher frequency grind, but because it's pretty heavily compressed it doesn't jump out and call attention to itself.

 

Also, get a bass amp simulator like Ampeg if you are DI'ing. Then you can apply mic, cabinet, and amplifier characteristics to the bass track, which has a lot to do with the tone of a bass.

[Kendrix]

Pick the bass strings closer to the bridge.

Go with lighter roundwound (versus flatround) strings.

 

...Its always best to get the sound right form the start.

 

Another thing that I do use a bit of chorus to give some life/space to the DI bass track.

Make sure the effect return is in phase with the source track.

When I do this I bandpass the effect retrurn around 300-400Hz and around 1500 hz.

[d. gauss]

turn it up....

[TimmyP]

 

Look between 700 and 900 Hz to bump up. Don't roll on a ton of low end either...

 

 

Boost 500 to 1k.

 

Get rig of the "scratch" and "twank" above 1k.

 

Plenty of energy below 50.

[Deeprig9]

This is all great information. The bass in question is a fender with flatwound strings, and it's fingerpicked. I've made comments before about it, but that's what the bassist likes and I don't think he's going to budge on it, so I was hoping there was someway to bypass it. Furthermore, there are alot of rhythm tracks and other frequencies, with piano, keyboard, and two guitars on most of the tracks. I think yall nailed it. No eq tricks are going to make this bass cut.

 

Thanks for all your 1st Class information, it will be used to make better music, and that's what Harmony Central is all about! I look forward to seeing a question from another member that I can help answer and return the favor.

[Deeprig9]

BTW, the only mixes that cut decently are indeed when it's picked or with a little distortion or chorus on it.

 

Yall are amazing.

[egelmett]

The bass in question is a fender with flatwound strings, and it's fingerpicked. I've made comments before about it, but that's what the bassist likes and I don't think he's going to budge on it

 

For some reason, I'm assuming this is your band you're recording, or are you recording someone else's music?

 

Is it the bass player who wants it to cut more, or you?

 

Yeah, the P-bass and flatwounds will be a mellow combination. You might as well ask the bass player to turn the tone knob all the way down while he's at it. A dub sound could be cool...

[Deeprig9]

It's me who wants it to cut more. Yes, I'm a member of the band. It's actually the bassist who's recording the whole thing too. I'm not looking to dump on his mixes and choice of bass sound, just looking to arm myself with some knowledge for our next discussion. As of now, I don't know much about recording at all. Right now, conversations about this stuff are me saying "I don't like this or that" and being told "blah blah blah" talking over my head with stuff I don't understand, but dont have the knowledge to argue with. Not in a condescending way, it's just hard to have a discussion with my level of knowledge.

[WRGKMC]

I may have a few Ideas that may help or at least add a perspective what can be done. If he uses Flatwound go to the best and listen. Paul McCartney comes to mind first. He was master at getting an earthey tone from the tapewound flats. His beatles bass sound came mostly from the Hofher hollowbody though with all its cool mids and such. I've litterally tried every brand on the market of strings and they all have their own charecter. Flats will give you great lows and prevents finget noise. You can bring the mids and trebble up and give it an acoustic sound. But you wont get the "YES" Rickenbacker round wound stainless sound or a slap bass out of it. I've gotten great results from Half or Roller wound strings which are half way between the two worlds and give convincing sounds of both depending on where the eq is set. What I would do is look at the seperate track with a Frequency Analizer and compare it with a round wound track. Try to match the frequency responces. You Will have some sacrifices and it will only mimick the responce though. But if thats whats needed for the recording go for it. Personally I would just get the best bass sound I can get and work the drums and other instruments in to match without masking If you dont have great recording software or are going to tape you can run bass direct split one into a channel dry and the other through and EQ then compressed to get the FQ responce you want from the pickups, kind of like an active setup. It Can get rid of some bad resonant peaks this way and get a lot more power in the mix. You can also do a direct and a miked signal to separate tracks or run the track through outboard equipment for another track and blend the two.

When it all comes down to it though if you have a weak take you just need to suck it up and redo the track with some more balls intact.

[Jimbroni]

 

I may have a few Ideas that may help or at least add a perspective what can be done. If he uses Flatwound go to the best and listen. Paul McCartney comes to mind first. He was master at getting an earthey tone from the tapewound flats. His beatles bass sound came mostly from the Hofher hollowbody though with all its cool mids and such. I've litterally tried every brand on the market of strings and they all have their own charecter. Flats will give you great lows and prevents finget noise. You can bring the mids and trebble up and give it an acoustic sound. But you wont get the "YES" Rickenbacker round wound stainless sound or a slap bass out of it. I've gotten great results from Half or Roller wound strings which are half way between the two worlds and give convincing sounds of both depending on where the eq is set. What I would do is look at the seperate track with a Frequency Analizer and compare it with a round wound track. Try to match the frequency responces. You Will have some sacrifices and it will only mimick the responce though. But if thats whats needed for the recording go for it. Personally I would just get the best bass sound I can get and work the drums and other instruments in to match without masking If you dont have great recording software or are going to tape you can run bass direct split one into a channel dry and the other through and EQ then compressed to get the FQ responce you want from the pickups, kind of like an active setup. It Can get rid of some bad resonant peaks this way and get a lot more power in the mix. You can also do a direct and a miked signal to separate tracks or run the track through outboard equipment for another track and blend the two. When it all comes down to it though if you have a weak take you just need to suck it up and redo the track with some more balls intact.

 

 

 

When go for this kinda in between sound, I tend to use my musicman with roundwounds that haven't been changed in a about 2 years. Still get alot of attack when you dig in, but you can get a nice round bassy sound as well. And the finger noise is cut way down.

 

 

Myself, I think if you wanna bass that cuts, you're better off trying to get that sound prior to tape. Have the bass player play to the drums, and set his levels in the mixer and eq on the amp to get a sound that cuts right off the get go. The less eqing you have to do after the fact the more natural it will sound. Just my opinion.

 

Alot of times when you are setting levels and tuning in the bass when its all alone its very easy to shoot for a sound that has s really fat bottom sort of "V" cut eq, because by itself it sounds really good that way. Once you're playing to the drums however, that V cut can end up being really buried in the mix.

 

Of course the challenge is the bass player, if he likes the fatter round sound, you can set the eq on the amp to be mid heavy but he will account for that with his playing technique to fatten it back up. His fingers/pick are the most powerful eq in his rig.

[Lee Knight]

Lately I've been working a flat wound sound and digging it. Sometimes with a pick (Haven't used a pick in 25 years) and sometimes with fingers. What I like about flats is that when you bump up anywhere between 800 and 3k... you don't get clang, you get wood.

 

Well you know what I mean. This is a great opportunity to do something different. Don't crank on the low end, punch up some mids. It's a cool sound. Plenty of low end warmth without slathering it on.

[Dean Roddey]

 

you don't get clang, you get wood.

 

 

Wow, you must REALLY like playing bass!

[Lee Knight]

You can probably figure out why I don't play an acrylic Dan Armstrong.

[nerol1st]

Anyone care to check my DI tones out?

 

www.soundclick.com/basstones

 

The one that doesn't have an amp sim is running these effects:

 

[Dean Roddey]

I've been sitting down last night going through a whole lot of bass tones myself, using Ampeg. My bass isn't the best, so I'm having to make a decision about what I'm going to spend some of my tax money on. It is either going to be a Fender Jazz Amer. plus a Great River MP-1NV, or a ZenDrum.

 

The issue is always, how much of my inability to get the tones I want is me and my lack of experimentation and tracking/processing ability, and how much is it the bass and pre-amp. The pre-amp, I don't think is an issue (Solo/610), but the bass is questionable (an Ibanez SDGR.) If I can get good enough tones out of the bass, I'll go for the Zendrum because being able to really play drum, which isn't really possible on the standard square drum pad like I have now, would be the biggest improvement for me.

 

I was getting some pretty good stuff after a lot of experimentation. For me, the 15 inch cabinet with either a 57 or 421 really provides a nice sound for rounder tones, and the 8x10 cabinet with the Vintage 20 for more solid rock tones, both with the 4PRO amp. A lot of has to do with the right compression definitely. Though I usually use RenComp, I was getting better results with C1 instead. Not sure why.

 

But I got it down to just Ampeg plus compressor (after the amp sim), and no extra EQ (just a little with the SVT's graphic) and no limiter, and it sounded quite nice and punchy. I had the tube drive down as low as possible on the Solo/610, so that it wouldn't add any low end boost.

 

Given the results I was getting, I'm going to go with the ZenDrum. I should have taken that time before to really sit down and experiment relentlessly and try a huge set of combinations to find what works best. But there are so many things to learn at once. Better late than never though. Given how often basses are DI'd in 'real' studios, I figured it couldn't be DI'ing itself that was the issue, and given how many people like the Solo/610 as a bass DI, I figured it couldn't be that either. So it was a matter of finding the right pick up settings and amp sim and compression settings.

 

Of yours, I kind of liked the B-15 one the best, at least on my smaller bedroom speakers.

[nerol1st]

Hey Dean. How about just a pickup replacement on the Ibanez?

 

Also: Just wondering why your going for a zen drum? Oh and what one are you getting?

[Dean Roddey]

I may, in addition to the ZenDrum, see about trading my Ibanez in for a used Amer. Jazz. I'll hit the stores and see if I can find a used on in good shape for a good price. If I can keep it down to $800'ish or so with the trade in, I'd probably do that.

 

I'm getting the ZenDrum because my biggest issue now is the realism of the playing of the drums. I'm starting to get quite realistic sounding drums in terms of drum tones. But the realism of the playing itself is limited because it's so hard to play on one of those little square 16 pad type thingies. I have one of those now, a Korg padKontrol. And it's a good one in as far as what it is, but it's just so hard to play realistically on it. And, it doesn't have nearly enough pads to map all the variations of a full kit at once either.

 

The ZenDrum, to me, seems that it would provide a far better solution. It's really a percussion instrument that's designed for playability. And it has enough pads that you can not only map all the hit variations for a whole kit, but you can map the most important ones more than once, so that they are always available when you are moving around during fills and such. And the pads are extremely good for velocity sensitivity.

 

Of course, if you really have the time and desire, you can do amazing things with almost any piece of crap, as evidenced here:

 

 

 

But I really would prefer to have something a little easier to play. And even that ragged out drum machine he's playing would be easier than a square pad because at least he has two linear rows of pads. With a square one, you always are getting in your own way.

[nerol1st]

See whenever I see a zen drum even a used one I would (personally) way rather have a Roland e-kit. I have seen the expressiveness of a zen drum, but I feel like it would be learning another instrument so I would rather just have a kit. Although I do understand room restrictions.

[Dean Roddey]

Space is definitely an issue for me and would prevent me from having even a small MIDI kit.

[nerol1st]

Ah I see. Thats to bad.