Members nat whilk II Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 ok this one totally mystifies me in usage by album reviewers, ie, "math rock". I've seen it applied to Radiohead, to Cake, to Ben Folds, The Flaming Lips, and others. I see no common element here, although I think it's safe to assume that Lynrd Skynrd ain't no mathrock. The term makes me think perhaps it's "smart white college-boy music", which would apply pretty accurately to Cake (whom I really like BTW), but maybe not. So, without biting, headbutting, or jabs below the belt, what say you geniuses? nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 15, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 15, 2005 I'm out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I'd be interested to hear as I'm a little unclear (while I've heard the term, I'm not in a subculture that uses it, so I'm not real pulgged in to that) I heard it has something to do with dirty hippies though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 "Math Rock." That's a term I always used to describe Rush and other bands of that ilk. Like the part of "By Tor and the Snow Dog" where they play the octaves and play one less note each pass. Weee! I'm learning subtraction! Sounds cool as {censored} though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KHAN Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Originally posted by rog951 "Math Rock." That's a term I always used to describe Rush and other bands of that ilk. Like the part of "By Tor and the Snow Dog" where they play the octaves and play one less note each pass. Weee! I'm learning subtraction! Sounds cool as {censored} though... DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN... DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN... DUNN...DUNN...DUNN...DUNN... DUNN...DUNN...DUNN... DUNN...DUNN... DUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 LOL Khan! I also learned double-integration from "Jacob's Ladder"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Botch Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I'd use the term for King Crimson, where half the band is playing in 17/8 and the other half in 19/8, and they end on the same beat...eventually. Could also use the term for Dream Theater and some of Zappa's stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Everything you need to know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_rock cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 So, can the term be applied "retroactively" to, as the guys mentioned, Crimson, etc ? Or is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members analog daniel Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 http://www.epitonic.com/genres/mathrock.html "Take the intricacy and complexity of classic weirdo hard rock bands like Rush and Voivod, then add some of punk's hyperspasmodic schizophrenia, and you'll have a legitimate math rock contender. Math rock bands take pleasure in being erratic and unpredictable, often experimenting with peculiar tempos and jazz-derived rhythms while keeping the rock hard and aggressive all the while. Their lyrics tend to be as cerebral and expertly designed as their songs. These bands are rock's architects of the future, recrafting and reinventing the genre's tired song structures." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members analog daniel Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 http://www.mathrock.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members analog daniel Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members analog daniel Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 so please don't mistake math rock for progressive rock. thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I've never heard it in any other context except as used to describe prog rock, and especially bands that are prone to play in odd time signatures. And yeah definitely applies to King Crimson, Rush, Zappa et al. Someone once referred to one of my bands, the psychedelic power pop band Orange Hat, as "math rock" in a review, which we found highly amusing as that's about the last thing any of us would use to describe Orange Hat. As one of the frontmen put it: "Maybe it's remedial math rock." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Originally posted by analog daniel so please don't mistake math rock for progressive rock. thank you! would you consider the definition to be date depend or are there stylistic markers? MY favorite I've heard is "spock rock" apparently defining music listened to by art-school type people with Mr. spock-like bangs I'm not familiar with the music, but have seen the fashion statment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BenOne Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 It sounds as if math rock is now firmly associated with two distinct rock sub-genres. I have seen mainstream critics (in places like Entertainment Weekly) call King Crimson albums "math rock." But the Wikipedia entry seems to describe math rock as being an offshoot of punk. If you ask me, it sounds as if the punk/noise rock community probably had the term first, then the term was (perhaps mistakenly) applied to prog bands and their unusual time signatures. This reminds me of a similar confusion that occurred in the early 90s--I forget what the exact term was (perhaps "art rock" or maybe even "alternative") but I seem to remember that there was a disagreement over whether the term should be properly claimed by either prog rock or another genre (early 90s grunge, if I remember correctly). Eventually one camp won out. I wish I could remember the exact term that was a matter of debate. Perhaps Google Groups has some of the discussion--I'll let you know if I find it. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I wouldn't really think of those bands as "math rock" -- though I have to admit I'm going off what I think it should mean. I'd think it referred to the kind of technically super-adroit, "over-" intellectual music marked by odd key and time changes, and performed with tight precision. And while I think all those bands cited are 'smart' bands -- I don't think any of them really fit my definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Is there maybe a new school artist that we can solidly agree on as being "math rock" ? I realize there is some fringe interpretation we are trying to clarify, but I'm not sure I'm even aware of the general classification so I thought I might go take a listen so I can, at least, hear what we are talking about PPerhaps mathrock is really a subgenre of schoolhouse rock OK, 12-toe was a pretty cool tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 The {censored}ing Champs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed A. Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 It sounds to me like math rock = new college band post-rock. Same thing, different label. This "let's-name-a-new-genre" stuff is getting stupid, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted August 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 I did a little listening to some of the "math rock" bands at Barnes & Noble after checking the names off the Epitonic site - the band I liked best was Don Caballero. The time signatures and compositions were complex at times, but not really all that complex IMHO. There's tons of jazz that's a lot harder to follow time-wise and harmonically. Didn't sound pretentious to me or like faux-Yes or faux-old Genesis - not like a lot of garden-variety prog-rock does. Not much of that "bombastic" melodramatic quality that for me at least ruins a lot of prog. And the guys have chops - no fakery there. Worth looking into, I think. Yeah, the world doesn't need yet another genre to quibble over, but hey, the use of the label did get me looking into a bunch of bands I'd never heard of otherwise. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phaeton Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 This reminds me of a similar confusion that occurred in the early 90s--I forget what the exact term was (perhaps "art rock" or maybe even "alternative") Wasn't "ska" was it? I remember a debate about what "ska" really was, and there were some ppl throwing in str8 up funk because it had horns in it, or something. Seems to have gone back to the underground or something, since those times... I agree with Ed A. I think that there are at times too many people placing too much emphasis on musical types and boundaries. I think that's the sort of thing that happens to ppl that don't listen to a lot of different types of music, or are listening to music for the wrong reasons. I've found that the more music i've listened to, the more the lines between them start to blur. Yet strangely, you start to see how music has evolved. It's very entertaining to just sit and think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d. gauss Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 get with the program... http://www.postdiluvian.org/~gilly/Schoolhouse_Rock/HTML/schoolhouse.html -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 I like old-school new wave, which is pre post-rock But I ain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 Originally posted by nat whilk II the band I liked best was Don Caballero. What about Guy Caballero??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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