One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't:

[amplayer]

The thing I find funny is that these "combative style" Mac vs PC threads always seem to be started by PC guys.

LOL. Good Point.

[Branwyn]

No, no I don't sleep. I didn't expect anyone on this site to discover my terrible secret, except maybe that John Sayers character. Oh and usually if I want to use webcam/audio with msn I boot windows. Mmmmm dualboot *drools*

Sleep is for mere mortals, really.

How does that that whole running windows on a mac thing work out? I assume you need a ginormous harddrive to be able to run both. I'd only really be using it for msn though...seems like a lot to thing about for 1 instant messenging program.

(Probably easier and definitely cheaper to persuade the bf into just downloading AIM or Yahoo)

[Antman261]

Well it depends on how you partition the drive. You have to divide it up, one part for OS X and one part for windows, you get to choose how much you allocate to each with bootcamp.

[DeathMonkey]

The only people that bitch about Mac users are loser PC apologists. It's like the Christians that bitch about Atheists. Shove your bull{censored} down our throats, but as soon as we respond, WE are the "elitists". Whatever. Maddox is a n00b.

[alphajerk]

you have that backwards deathmonkey... steve jobs is your god and diehard mac users are closer to any religious group in the computing world. MOST Windows users probably dont know who bill gates in [let alone how to turn on a computer sometimes ]

regardless, im not bitching about mac USERS really. i will bitch about those terribly deceitful apple ads that run now... cause they are basically horse{censored}.

but ill definately bitch about HP/compaq cause their machines SUCK ass.


blue2blue: if you order a Dell business machine with XPpro [if you can still do that with Vista out] it comes STRIPPED. i was amazed at the first one we ordered from them... and at the doorstep in 4 days. i was bitching about this one particular Dell another client bought that i had no input on.

I dont hear a lot of bad things about Dell really.... HP/compaq on the other hand.

in the end, i run both platforms. i like things about both, hate things about both. this year, i will probably have to upgrade to a G5 AND get a faster dual quadcore PC machine once Vista takes better hold and 64bit becomes standard so i can pack it with more memory. i have always had both platforms, and probably always will.

[blue2blue]

Ah... that's good to know about Dell's XP Pro packages, might well be worth the extra dough... Now if they'd just BRING XP BACK! :D

 

One of the reasons I headed over to Dell's refurb store was that I knew I'd be able to find a machine with XP there... the thought of doing mom-support on an OS I'd never previously laid hands on and wouldn't have a copy of sent chills up one side of my spine and down the other.

 

And the fact she could get a 3 year, next-day, onsite service plan with spill and drop accidental coverage for $220 pretty much sealed the deal (even though I've never really used my own 3 year next-day service plan which is just about history [i did have them send me a little rubber foot when one of mine disappeared the first couple days I had it, which they FedExed]).

[John Sayers]

I can't understand why pro users, like us would bitch about Dell, HP etc unless you were purchasing a laptop where you can't really control what is in it.

I'm about to set off to pick up my new PC. I was recommended a reputable pro computer shop by a reputable pro musician friend and I went in and we discussed what I should get, component for component - once agreed upon I have waited a week for the individual parts to arrive, be assembled and memory tested - and it's now ready.

I chose a machine configuration that will be excellent for my 3D CAD work as well as handle my Onyx and music software.

The only software installed will be XP pro - yes you can still get it alphajerk

All up with twin 19" LCD screens it's going to cost around US$2300 at the current conversion rates.

I checked the equivalent in a MAC and with half the RAM and a lesser video card and it would still cost me twice that!!

If I require repair service there are around 6 PC shops within my area - there is one MAC shop 10 miles away.

[alphajerk]

yeah, i checked out buying XP still, its available in boxes... i dont think the big names still sell it as part of their machines.

i cant wait for this Vista to get sorted out and moving on it. im tired of XP and 32bit apps and only 3.25GB RAM and 2GB RAM per app. although having 4GB did make my machine a LOT snappier despite losing that "750MB" somewhere. my task manager says 3405276 available.

[blue2blue]

As I recall there are ways of tapping out the extra RAM (and I think the 2MB limit per app under XP32 is something that can be tinkered as well, IIRC) but, clearly, having a "flat" address space with no remapping tricks is the way to go.

 

George Necola, one of the computer recording forum mods at GearSlutz says his company has been running some Vista machines (w/ Aero, DRM, and other CPU-suckers turned off) and claims it's about as fast as XP. (Actually he said "faster" but that's such a rash statement I'm not going to hold him to it. )

[Dylan Walters]

How does that that whole running windows on a mac thing work out? I assume you need a ginormous harddrive to be able to run both.

 

 

It's working great for me on the Mac Mini Core2 Duo. XP performs flawlessly. I only use the Mac OS for iTunes, the DVD Player app, and sometimes, the Internet. I only have a 60 GB HD, and both OS's are playing nice on the same drive. It helps that I have a 300GB USB 2.0 Seagate drive attached for storage most of my stuff, however.

[Cry Logic]

As of right now, I'll go on record as saying Vista is the most bogged, buggy release of Windows since ME. It is so loaded with DRM stuff, that the OS cannot run. I am talking Core Duo2 with1.5-2 gb ram.....sloooooowwww.....2 years rfom now, I am sure it will be rock solid, for now, I am sticking with XP.

 

 

 

That's why programs like vLite exist....

I predict the net will soon be awash with

numerous cut down versions of Vista

made with vlite...just like the numerous

cut down versions of XP, made with nLite

that are already out there....

 

Of course it's illegal to distrubute such versions,

but not to make your own for your own personal

use from an original, valid Vista or XP disc......

[deanmass]

Hey, that is cool....I had never heard of these...thanks...

I am sure I am gonna have to deal with Vista sooner or later at work. Maybe this will make it suck less. Ironically, I think the 2nd (3rd? 4th?) coming of dumb terminals is almost upon us. In the ebb and flow of things, a desktop OS no longer offers the advatages it once used to, so the pendulum should swing the other way again.

[blue2blue]

That's why programs like vLite exist.... I predict the net will soon be awash with numerous cut down versions of Vista made with vlite...just like the numerous cut down versions of XP, made with nLite that are already out there.... Of course it's illegal to distrubute such versions, but not to make your own for your own personal use from an original, valid Vista or XP disc......

That looks pretty cool. I'd looked at nLite before.

 

It's really tempting. But I'm ind of in not-broken mode right now...

 

[Cry Logic]

I'm planning on getting a removeable HDD DriveBay

and experimenting with vLited versions of Vista.....

till I get it lean mean.

The way many people experiment with this stuff is to

do the nLiting/vLiting and then install on a Virtual Machine

using VMware or Microsofts' Virtual PC.....

 

That way you don't stuff up your current install

if the cut down version doesn't work, you simply

delete it and try again....

[alphajerk]

i run a C2D 2.4/2GB RAM with vista no [speed] problem... thats with a 7600GS video card. full bore aero and no slower than XP really. not everything i need is working with it yet, so i cant fully move over... i tend to wait out the intial releases on everything. i dont think i got into OSX until 10.3.4. or was it 10.4.x? it was late where i couldnt run the new app versions on any older OSX. i mean they "work" but im still in the not broke part... although the addressible memory thing is getting to be an issue i want to overcome soon. maybe when i get a break in my work flow i can start making the jump, which is the biggest thing of all.

[steveg]

Over the weekend I setup Boot Camp on my 24" iMac and have been testing XP against Mac OSX on the same hardware. I wanted to have XP available to run my Sony Vegas software which is a really good recording and editing package and there was some tracks I wanted to use it for.

It is pretty much what you would expect- it was harder to get my MOTU 896 working with XP and the process of setting up a new machine from scratch is more work and more piecemeal with Windows.

On the positive though, graphics do seem snappier on XP than OSX, just in general windows pop faster and seem crisper, but I still find the Mac a more enjoyable system to use.

On the MAC I have just been using GarageBand as I decide what to go forward with, I think running them side by side is leading me toward staying on the MAC and buying a copy of LOGIC.....

Another positive for XP- there seems to be A LOT more free plugins and synths out there for Windows.

My next test is to train Parallels to boot a virtual XP machine form the BOOT CAMP partition. If this works as advertised, I can use the XP machine from within the MAC system. I hoping to be able to do this for simple tasks in Vegas and then if necessary boot to XP when I need to access that software....

[rawhedrex]

Over the weekend I setup Boot Camp on my 24" iMac and have been testing XP against Mac OSX on the same hardware. I wanted to have XP available to run my Sony Vegas software which is a really good recording and editing package and there was some tracks I wanted to use it for. It is pretty much what you would expect- it was harder to get my MOTU 896 working with XP and the process of setting up a new machine from scratch is more work and more piecemeal with Windows. On the positive though, graphics do seem snappier on XP than OSX, just in general windows pop faster and seem crisper, but I still find the Mac a more enjoyable system to use. On the MAC I have just been using GarageBand as I decide what to go forward with, I think running them side by side is leading me toward staying on the MAC and buying a copy of LOGIC..... Another positive for XP- there seems to be A LOT more free plugins and synths out there for Windows. My next test is to train Parallels to boot a virtual XP machine form the BOOT CAMP partition. If this works as advertised, I can use the XP machine from within the MAC system. I hoping to be able to do this for simple tasks in Vegas and then if necessary boot to XP when I need to access that software....

 

 

saying you compared windows running on a mac to osx running on a mac?

 

The biggest beef i have with apple is the deceit, they above all others have lied outright about the capabillities of their hardware in the past - I've seen it cost a production house a lot of coin for nothing aswell - it's not pretty on that level - the g4 and g5 machines were not what they were being made out to be, and certainly NOT good value for money from a pure horsepower perspective, despite the fact they were at the time being marketed as supercomputers....

 

These days you are paying to use the OS - the hardware is strictly middle of the road PC stuff, and they still charge an absolute premium for it - it's just not cricket I'm afraid - they certainly picked up their game by switching to intel and finally riding OSX to glory, but all the hardware nonsense and general crap that has trickled through creative industries for long enough I'm afraid - I've actually met three photographers who had no idea photoshop ran on windows.

 

It's very annoying to see apple constantly going the way of the smear campaign, it doesn't say much for their product, and seriosuly dissapoints me due to the companies ongoing commitment to unique progress seemingly dead and buried. They would be wise to consider marketing themselves as an alternative rather than outright superior - especially when even an IT novice takes a look at whats under the hood....

 

Apple also has some balls talking about windows security - OSX is in fact FAR less secure, it's just not wideley used enough to be frequently targeted, in time this simple fact will cause some problems.

 

Bottom line is, if you do your homework you'll work out what you are getting for your money, and if you dont do your homework - your twice as likely to be spending alot more on something that apealls via impulse.

 

I'm of coursed biased - but thats my 2 cents - I hope Apple returns to an admirable position.

[Antman261]

My mac book pro 17" can run supreme commander on full graphics at 1680x1050 without breaking a sweat. I don't know anyone with a PC that can do that. So far I've found that this computer really milks it's specs for all their worth. Sure, the absolutely kick arse graphics card in this computer probably has a fair bit to do with running SupComm fine (hardest thing I've thrown at this computer yet) but still it's pretty darn tastey.

[rawhedrex]

 

My mac book pro 17" can run supreme commander on full graphics at 1680x1050 without breaking a sweat. I don't know anyone with a PC that can do that. So far I've found that this computer really milks it's specs for all their worth. Sure, the absolutely kick arse graphics card in this computer probably has a fair bit to do with running SupComm fine (hardest thing I've thrown at this computer yet) but still it's pretty darn tastey.

 

 

Heres the sort of thing that gets to me -

 

your mac book is a pc laptop - it's exactly the same, and it's got a realy crap video card in it - apple makes a quaity laptop - but a gaming powerhouse it sure as {censored} is not.

 

the radeon x1600 isn't even remotely powerful, and can be found in laptops nearly half the price of your macbook - the macbooks strength is in it's cpu , not it's graphics.

[BEAD]

Most of his commentaries are. It's the kind of thing you read and consistently laugh your ass off at, then you read one and say, "Wait a minute, he's talking about people like me!!":mad:

 

 

I don't know man... if you read maddox making fun of douchebags and then realize his criticisms all apply to you, you might actually...

 

nevermind.

[John Sayers]

Apple also has some balls talking about windows security - OSX is in fact FAR less secure, it's just not wideley used enough to be frequently targeted, in time this simple fact will cause some problems.

 

 

what really concerns me is how many Macs are sitting unprotected on the web. If I wanted to spread a virus or spam I'd definitely write the program for a Mac and have them distribute it as they would have no idea their puter was full of spyware.

[John Sayers]

BTW if you really want to test your computer's ability you should try this simple test.

Download the FREE program Google Sketchup 6 here

http://sketchup.google.com/download.html

it's available in PC and Mac. It's an excellent 3D CAD program and one day you'll find a use for it .

Once installed download, unzip and open THIS FILE

You will see a single person on the screen - now click on the scene 2 and you will see a group of people - rotate the image (Hold mouse wheel and move mouse) keep going up scene by scene as the crowd gets bigger and bigger and rotating them puts more and more demand on your computer.

When the program converts the people into squares before it rotates you have reached your limit.


My 3.2g HP laptop squared at scene 7, my new desktop squares at scene 11.

[blue2blue]

Over the weekend I setup Boot Camp on my 24" iMac and have been testing XP against Mac OSX on the same hardware. I wanted to have XP available to run my Sony Vegas software which is a really good recording and editing package and there was some tracks I wanted to use it for. It is pretty much what you would expect- it was harder to get my MOTU 896 working with XP and the process of setting up a new machine from scratch is more work and more piecemeal with Windows. On the positive though, graphics do seem snappier on XP than OSX, just in general windows pop faster and seem crisper, but I still find the Mac a more enjoyable system to use. On the MAC I have just been using GarageBand as I decide what to go forward with, I think running them side by side is leading me toward staying on the MAC and buying a copy of LOGIC..... Another positive for XP- there seems to be A LOT more free plugins and synths out there for Windows. My next test is to train Parallels to boot a virtual XP machine form the BOOT CAMP partition. If this works as advertised, I can use the XP machine from within the MAC system. I hoping to be able to do this for simple tasks in Vegas and then if necessary boot to XP when I need to access that software....

 

 

[bold added]

 

I find that pretty interesting because it's very much what I would have expected (now why something that's what I expected should be interesing is probably more personal pathology than anything else but that would be going way off topic in the very first sentence and I can't have myself doing that... again.)

 

 

Most of my hands-on Mac experience has been with three machines: an 800 mHz G4 Powerbook (just all 'round slow, slow, slow -- even with a 7200 Travelstar drive in it); a G4 iMac (half-globe/LCD model -- which looked great but was still pretty slow at a lot of operations, file system operations/file copying, graphic file processing, etc); and an Intel MacBook bought in early fall of last year [sorry, I can't remember the particulars]...

 

Having some familiarity with the chip family in the MacBook (through ownership of my own 3+ year old Pentium M laptop) I wasn't surprised that that machine seemed FAR faster than the earlier models... but I still felt like some operations seemed a little sluggish.

 

Knowing a little about the software architecture of OS X, I figured it was Aqua that was the main culprit, that the rescaling graphics engine was creating the apparent slowness (feeding my fears of Vista's me-too Aero rescaling engine) and, so, your estimation seems to support that surmise.

 

Interesting.

 

[MrKnobs]

what really concerns me is how many Macs are sitting unprotected on the web. If I wanted to spread a virus or spam I'd definitely write the program for a Mac and have them distribute it as they would have no idea their puter was full of spyware.

 

With Mac's share less than 4% of the market, they're even unsupported by hackers.

 

Terry D.

[ilovemystrat]

what really concerns me is how many Macs are sitting unprotected on the web. If I wanted to spread a virus or spam I'd definitely write the program for a Mac and have them distribute it as they would have no idea their puter was full of spyware.

 

 

on a mac, anything that gets written to the harddrive, it has to have my permission first