OT - cute Russian girl

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I think, for men to complain about these things is considered un-PC because, it is tacitly assumed, in a folky way, that women are doing countless beneficial things in the background for a man, things that he would never begin to understand or appreciate, so they keep mum about it. Doubtless this is often true in many relationships. But there are an equal amount of instances, especially these days, in which it isn't true.

 

 

It's also probably un-"PC" because historically, we have been dominant (not in the good sense, but in the sense of subjugation or unfairness). But ya gotta call 'em like you see 'em. I still think that the field is largely shifted towards males in our society, but there's a lot of areas (obviously, some of the ones we've discussed here) that are clearly in favor of females now.

 

I also want to thank the people who are discussing what is a touchy topic in such a civil manner.

[Kestral]

Well things aren't looking so good for men right now.

 

Did you know that 57% of college degrees awarded to women:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm

 

If "Feminists" really believed in "equality", then they'd be trying to do something about this to bring it back to 50/50. But of course they're not. What does that tell you? Simply, they're not out for equality. They want their cake and to eat it too.

[rasputin1963]

Someone once said (forget who just now) that the bellwether of how civilized a country is, can be measured by the degree of safety of its women and girls. I suspect that's probably true.

 

I'm all for women seizing the moment, going for the gusto and doing everything that they want to do in this life. The advent of the birth control pill in 1963 has totally rescripted what women are able to do with themselves, their lives. I've had female bosses and male bosses and I was quite content in both situations.

 

What does rankle me is the way (some) women have a way of utterly devaluing men--- and the way men think and do things--- as if their thoughts and behavior....and thus their existence.... were stupid or worthless. So pernicious. Young girls need to be taught respect for men in their home of upbringing, just as boys must be taught to respect women.

 

Particularly shocking for me was when I worked as a sub, teaching at the juinior high and high school levels in the USA: I'd see female teachers scolding boys in the most severe and hurtful way.... just denigrating them, because maybe they were high-spirited or randy or loquacious or non-verbal or highly physical in nature.... Well, that's the way boys and men are!! The androgens in their bloodstreams are much, much higher than girls or women's... Androgens make a guy want to run and talk and dance and goof off and shout and fight and roughhouse... it's the nature of the beast. This is why so many boys are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD. Boys want to raise a little hell, roughhouse a little, speak candidly without censorship. This is why I am a firm believer in single-sex middle and high schools.... It was the kind of school I attended in South Africa, and I am here to vouch for its usefulness...

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Particularly shocking for me was when I worked as a sub, teaching at the juinior high and high school levels in the USA: I'd see female teachers scolding boys in the most severe and hurtful way.... just denigrating them, because maybe they were high-spirited or randy or loquacious or non-verbal or highly physical in nature.... Well, that's the way boys and men are!! The androgens in their bloodstreams are much, much higher than girls or women's... Androgens make a guy want to run and talk and dance and goof off and shout and fight and roughhouse... it's the nature of the beast. This is why so many boys are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD. Boys want to raise a little hell, roughhouse a little, speak candidly without censorship. This is why I am a firm believer in single-sex middle and high schools.... It was the kind of school I attended in South Africa, and I am here to vouch for its usefulness...

 

 

Rasputin, there was an interesting series of articles in Newsweek some months back making some of the points you are touching upon here, and pointing out how "female-oriented" most classrooms are, and how boys are not succeeding now. As you would guess, they got diverse letters back, all the way from people saying how wonderful it was for them to report on this, or how surprised they were, to the occasional female writing, "Boo hoo hoo...we've been under men's thumbs for thousands of years, so too bad."

 

On the relationship/marriage front, men are in odd times in Western countries. On the one hand, we are encouraged to be more "domestic" and "equal", but then, couples are going to therapy or splitting up in greater numbers than ever before because women aren't "excited" by the relationship, or women who want a "bad boy" or want someone who is more of a "take charge" kinda guy or someone "dangerous" (in other words, some of the same attributes of a person who would likely be bad for cohabitation!). Cutting it somewhere down the middle is a bizarre tightrope act for many males in Western society. There are stinkloads of articles and books written on this subject, as you probably know.

[Kestral]

UstadKhanAli, that's why I take the take charge method. F--k feminism, I'd rather be who I am (a man) so a woman can feel good, even if her unnatural feminism programming says it's "unequal".

 

I tell them, "I am the Captain and you are the First Mate. As First Mate, I will always listen to your suggestions and consider your viewpoint but at the end of the day, I make the final decision and I'm driving the ship. When I make my final decision, your job as First Mate is to execute my decision."

 

There's an old joke I saw on the Internet awhile back, it's funny but it's true, which I think encapsulates why a man should lead (it seems REAL women who are in touch with their femininity also agree they want a take charge guy):

 

 

It's one thing to go shopping in a mall or supermarket and do that but in other areas of life, where big life-altering decisions are being made, this is completely unacceptable.

 

imo, There is no tightrope if you simple ignore the feminist propaganda and just be a man. That's doesn't mean be an asshole that beats women, chains them to the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, dominate and micromanage her every action (like Tom Cruise is doing to Katie Holmes), but it does mean calling her out on her BS (firmly but without anger) and when it comes to decision time, make a firm decision and take decisive action. Assume by default that you are making decision, even if she asks you what type of food to go out for dinner and you don't really care, make a choice, and if she disagrees a couple of times, then give her the option but if she has no option, then say, "We're going to Mexican" and if she complains, you tell her, "I gave you a choice and you didn't have one so I'm making the decision" and be done with it.

 

Second thing is, a man is NOT responsible for a woman's happiness. As the old sayign goes, "You can lead a horse to water...". You can be a facilitator towards her being happy, you can remove obstacles that prevent her from being happy, but at the end of the day the decision to be happy is her's to make, and if she can't make that decision, then it's HER fault, not yours. She has to choose to be happy in order to be happy. So never feel like you have to make her "happy". Besides, women want emotional range, they want to feel happy, sad, angry, cheerful, frustrated, all those things (which is why jerks and assholes are so attractive, they give the entire emotional range through their drama whereas a "nice guy" is always trying to make her feel one feeling, happy, and she gets bored of that). Women process the world through their emotions, the more emotions, the richer their world. So give them that emotional range, let the baby have her bottle. Notice how money doesn't even factor into anything I say, that's because money is only one factor in a huge overall package of a man.

[Super 8]

Just curious Kestral, do you have a girlfriend? Ever been married?

[Kestral]

Just curious Kestral, do you have a girlfriend? Ever been married?

I don't have ONE girlfriend

And no, I am not married.

 

Being married has no bearing on one's credibility or qualification in which to answer. With the divorce rate being 66% in Canada, being married means that your chances are 2 in 3 that you made a bad choice or she did, or that one or both of you {censored}ed up or will {censored} up.

[MorePaul]

 

Being married has no bearing on one's credibility or qualification in which to answer. .

 

 

 

Pat,

 

consider that super 8's question of

 

Just curious Kestral, do you have a girlfriend? Ever been married?

 

 

 

Can simply be an exploration of your qualifing statement of

 

Hi emdub, I hope I made it clear that I can only express my own views on the matter. I'm not a globe trotting social scientist or a speaker for all men out there, I'm just a guy going through his own life. I was asked a question and I felt you deserved a candid answer, so I took the chance and stuck my neck out to say what I wanted to say.

 

Maybe other people out there have a completely different experience and viewpoint, that's fine. I don't speak for them, I only speak for me

 

As you mention, it's your perspective and super 8 asked a little more abt that

 

Just as you remarked about an interesting e-123 interpretation (or, rather interpretation^2 as we interpret and interpretation there), it could be a neat area of reflection for you to look at the natur of your interpretation of Super 8's question

 

Additional :

semantically, what we attach to "qaulity" as it relates to 'qualification' in/of discourse might be an interesting thread to pull of that sweater of our own minds -- esp if/how one approaches 'qualis' in terms of valuation (pendis?)

Mathematically, I guess we could interpret it in terms of any particular ordering property of a set, if that is a mode that anyone finds helpful

[Ani]

Wow. Just wow. Pot... kettle... black. You know nothing about me yet you have already made the judgement call about me and tell me what I should do? You just made a baseless value judgement without getting any facts. Nice. Perhaps you should get out there yourself and venture into the REAL world and actually know who you're talking about before you speak. Why the hate and bitterness? I get out enough, thank you very much. I work in a Fortune 500 company as a manager. My boss, a woman, is the director. My boss' boss, the general manager, is also a woman. They are both highly competent and I have a massive amount of respect for them for their professionalism and high level of competence. They are the exception, not because of discrimination, but they made certain choices and sacrifices to get there, just like any man would. My boss did not have children, because she decided a career was more important to her. My boss' boss had children early so she could then make a run at her career afterwards. Look before you judge, lest you make yourself out to be one of thest Western women I'm "generalizing" about. And yeah, I'm generalizing. So what? We're having a broad stroke discussion here and others have already agreed that *in general*, what I said has a very strong grain of truth and merit to it. I cannot account for the 1%'s and all the little exceptions, can you? What did you expect me to do? Address each and every 200 million or so individual woman in the Western world seperately and qualify for each one? Wow, talk about ridiculous expectations (of a Western woman) If you want to do that, then do it yourself.

 

Actually Kestral, reread the statement made by you that I qouted

 

Women these days it seems not only do not want to work, but also want a nanny to take care of the kids, a maid to do the housework, leaving them free to watch Oprah and eat bon bons. They just want a free meal ticket.

 

You spoke of women as a WHOLE; you did not make any exceptions for the career woman or the diligent housewife. What I know about you is what I read of your writings.

 

 

Look before you judge, lest you make yourself out to be one of thest Western women I'm "generalizing" about.

 

Actually, if I were one of those women that you were generalizing about, I'd be eating bon bons and watching Oprah and I'd be out gold digging to make sure that I had a man to pay my way.

 

As it is, I am a career professional of 30+ years; mid level management in an organization who's revenues are over 80 billion dollars a year.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

You spoke of women as a WHOLE; you did not make any exceptions for the career woman or the diligent housewife.

 

 

There are only two sorts of men,

the ones to whom all women are one, and

the ones to whom one women are all

 

Hope the saying makes sense as I translated it to English.

 

.

[Ani]

 

There are only two sorts of men, the ones to whom all women are one, and the ones to whom one women are all Hope the saying makes sense as I translated it to English. .

 

 

 

Yes, Angelo, I understand your translation perfectly. It is those men in the latter category that will each find the perfect woman that will fulfill his every desire. It will not matter if the woman is Anglo-Saxon, Indian-American, Russian, Italian, American, Hispanic, Asian... a woman is a woman is a woman. In this sense, all women are the same.... all want a man's respect and loyalty; if not, there is something wrong.

[SpaceNorman]

This pswedo intellectual exchange on the state of male/female interaction is getting pretty deep. Any chance we can get back on topic and continue the cute Russian chick discussion?