OT - cute Russian girl

Ani · April 1, 2007

Boosh,

I not nearly as bad as ANY one of them; I'm just really self conscious about my appearance... always have been.

At one point in my life, you could count my ribs from across the room and I thought I was fat. I'm by no means skinny, but I'm not sloppy fat either.

philbo · April 1, 2007

Odd, that feminine self-image thing...

I know morbidly obese women (there are a LOT of them around here) who feel they are utter beauties, and see no reason for change in the 5 - 10 lbs of junk food they eat daily. I also know utterly beautiful women who are obsessed with how they feel their body is decaying and flabbing out. I suppose the US cultural thing tying female appearance to value is a factor... but there seems also to be elements of vanity, narcissisim, self-loathing and just plain neuroses.... Frankly, I don't really get it. But then, it's hard to see what it's about from a male perspective.

It is a mental thing, this denial of what really IS, the tendency to think of food as an opium of happiness, and the refusal to look and see what is really there.

To be fair, there are certainly men with the same issues - - body builders, for example. Guys who shave their chests "for the ladies".... Sort of makes you wonder who they shave their asses for... but I digress.

Eh... whatever floats yer boat, I guess.

Antman261 · April 2, 2007

I've met a lot of people from the internet. There's a right and a wrong way to do it.

Going straight to their place? BAD IDEA! ALARM BELLS RINGING PLEASE

Meet in a very public, populated area, with friends, and a place you know well? Good idea

Though all the creeps i've met on the net have been pretty obvious. I have met some pretty obnoxious women though haha. And been stood up a couple of times. Oh and had a female friend of mine's boyfriend log into her MSN account and flirt with me as her to see if I was interested. Hmm, something deeper seem wrong with that? Got some lovely threats of violence from him.

But otherwise if you keep your wits about you it can be pretty safe. I don't think these predators bother with people that seem to have their wits about them.

Ani · April 2, 2007

Just for entertainment I took a peek at one of the Russian Mail Order Bride sites today.... Geez, what a cheesey way to disguise what looks to be like an escort service.

Here, meet Anastasia after she makes her way to Washington DC in America...

WARNING: Link opens to elicit nudity and sexual advertisement

http://www.escortcityguide.com/Washington/FemaleEscorts/Anastasia/Anastasia.htm

Oops.... her nationality is ???

Fendercaster · April 2, 2007

Do they all talk like Borat?

I think they are all distantly related on his father's side.

philbo · April 3, 2007

well... her photos were not as good... and not nearly as naked...

That page does seem geared toward the male suffering from testosterone overdose, doesn't it?

rasputin1963 · April 3, 2007

Just for entertainment I took a peek at one of the Russian Mail Order Bride sites today.... Geez, what a cheesey way to disguise what looks to be like an escort service.

Here, meet Anastasia after she makes her way to Washington DC in America...

WARNING: Link opens to elicit nudity and sexual advertisement

http://www.escortcityguide.com/Washington/FemaleEscorts/Anastasia/Anastasia.htm

Oops.... her nationality is ???

What? No gynecological intrauterine pap smear photos of 'stasi? Without those, I'd never send her plane fare.

emdub123 · April 4, 2007

... She would basically service the computer geek/engineer community in California, lots of smart decent-looking guys there that make good money working for great companies, are clean, polite, honest and just want a good traditional woman with traditional values and no drama (instead of the screwed up entitlement princesses that grew up reading Cosmo, watching Sex in the City and look up to Paris Hilton and Britney as role models - sorry to say but these women are severly damaged and are no good to anyone looking to build a long term relationship) but would not be desired by those aforementioned western women because they are not a bad boy with a 12" dick and a trust fund (and even that would not be good enough for them).

There has been plenty of talk about the stereotypical mail-order bride, the stereotypical russian woman, but very little talk about the stereotypical american (or canadian?) male that does this.

My impression, and the above post is a perfect example, is that these guys are controlling and chauvenistic. "Traditional Values" is a code-phrase. They believe that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to their husband.

People with that world view have trouble with long-term relationships because -no woman- wants to be controlled and dominated and they just don't get it. These guys become increasingly misogynistic over time and end up saying, thinking and sometimes doing some pretty scary stuff. One guy I knew got into really demeaning and humiliating porn that made you wonder "why would someone want to do this to another person, or even watch someone else do it to them?" (No, I didn't watch it, I just looked at some of the dvd boxes -- really)

Kestral · April 4, 2007

There has been plenty of talk about the stereotypical mail-order bride, the stereotypical russian woman, but very little talk about the stereotypical american (or canadian?) male that does this.

My impression, and the above post is a perfect example, is that these guys are controlling and chauvenistic. "Traditional Values" is a code-phrase. They believe that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to their husband.

People with that world view have trouble with long-term relationships because -no woman- wants to be controlled and dominated and they just don't get it. These guys become increasingly misogynistic over time and end up saying, thinking and sometimes doing some pretty scary stuff. One guy I knew got into really demeaning and humiliating porn that made you wonder "why would someone want to do this to another person, or even watch someone else do it to them?" (No, I didn't watch it, I just looked at some of the dvd boxes -- really)

That's interesting, that "traditional values" would mean "chauvinistic" to you. If I were the type that would "stereotype", I would say that you bought the "feminist" propaganda lock stock and barrel. Newsflash, The War of the Sexes is over. Women won a long time ago. There is no argument. Women are allowed to vote. Women are in the workforce. Wage equality has been around for quite a long time now. The pendulum has swing too far the other way. Courts are known to be female biased (notice how 99% of the time the woman gets custody of the children, even if she's a drug abuser or a criminal, and notice how a male teacher gets with a student he's a pedo and goes to jail while the many women who have been doing this lately get therapy and suspended sentences). At this point, it's no longer about equality, it's about having their cake and eating it too.

I can't speak for other people. To me, traditional values means just that. What did it mean back then?

- Back then, it meant that marriages were entered with the intent to build a relationship together. These days there is a lot of talk in magazines like Cosmo about "starter marriages" - wtf??

- Back then, it meant the woman pulled her own weight in the relationship, and that does not mean she stays at home and becomes a homemaker. Women have been long accepted in the workplace for at at least 40 years now so I'm not sure why you would drag out the "barefoot and pregnant" anachronism. Hell, if she wants to go out and earn a living, I'll gladly stay at home to make home. Women these days it seems not only do not want to work, but also want a nanny to take care of the kids, a maid to do the housework, leaving them free to watch Oprah and eat bon bons. They just want a free meal ticket.

- I don't know how much you've travelled but if you've ever been do parts of Asia, Eastern Europe and South America, the women are completely different there. They are sweet, they look at men with genuine curiosity and interest, not disdain or mock "I know you want me but you can't have me" mind games BS like in Western culture. They're also skinny and feminine, not big boned and masculine to the point of being way past tomboy. Travel a little more and you'll see there's something very off with a great majority of Western women.

UstadKhanAli · April 4, 2007

This is potentially going to be a very long, intense debate.

You can make a pretty strong case for either way you go ("traditional" equating to subservience vs. a lot of things leaning towards women, such as child custody, TV programming being primarily for women except for sports-related items, and wanting more out of a relationship than ever before).

Both sides have some strong points...although I'd strongly disagree about wage equality.

And some of it is confusing to society. You have an age where Western women demand equality, but still want you to hold the door open for them and pay for dinner if you are dating. You can probably think of other examples.

I don't know that you can really paint this with totally broad strokes, though, as there as so many variables and exceptions...

emdub123 · April 4, 2007

Kestral, we're probably not going to agree on this one. I don't share your view of American women and I don't share your view of women around the world. For example, I'm really not so sure that American women are more materialistic and superficial than American Men. Perhaps you know something I don't know. I'm also not sure that you know what you're talking about regarding women around the world. I say this because I don't know how a person would gain first-hand knowledge of this sort of thing. Maybe you're some sort of globe-trotting social scientist?

While the views you express do encapsulate my image of how the typical mail-order bride customer sees women, I should have been more clear about this just being a stereotype. Maybe they're not all like you, I wouldn't know.

rasputin1963 · April 4, 2007

That's interesting, that "traditional values" would mean "chauvinistic" to you. If I were the type that would "stereotype", I would say that you bought the "feminist" propaganda lock stock and barrel. Newsflash, The War of the Sexes is over. Women won a long time ago. There is no argument. Women are allowed to vote. Women are in the workforce. Wage equality has been around for quite a long time now. The pendulum has swing too far the other way. Courts are known to be female biased (notice how 99% of the time the woman gets custody of the children, even if she's a drug abuser or a criminal, and notice how a male teacher gets with a student he's a pedo and goes to jail while the many women who have been doing this lately get therapy and suspended sentences). At this point, it's no longer about equality, it's about having their cake and eating it too.

I can't speak for other people. To me, traditional values means just that. What did it mean back then?

- Back then, it meant that marriages were entered with the intent to build a relationship together. These days there is a lot of talk in magazines like Cosmo about "starter marriages" - wtf??

- Back then, it meant the woman pulled her own weight in the relationship, and that does not mean she stays at home and becomes a homemaker. Women have been long accepted in the workplace for at at least 40 years now so I'm not sure why you would drag out the "barefoot and pregnant" anachronism. Hell, if she wants to go out and earn a living, I'll gladly stay at home to make home. Women these days it seems not only do not want to work, but also want a nanny to take care of the kids, a maid to do the housework, leaving them free to watch Oprah and eat bon bons. They just want a free meal ticket.

- I don't know how much you've travelled but if you've ever been do parts of Asia, Eastern Europe and South America, the women are completely different there. They are sweet, they look at men with genuine curiosity and interest, not disdain or mock "I know you want me but you can't have me" mind games BS like in Western culture. They're also skinny and feminine, not big boned and masculine to the point of being way past tomboy. Travel a little more and you'll see there's something very off with a great majority of Western women.

Wow, kestral.... Throughout history there have been the rare people who go ahead and dare to speak truths which many like them feel, but which no-one dare speak aloud.

You are one of these people.

Jimbroni · April 4, 2007

Just for entertainment I took a peek at one of the Russian Mail Order Bride sites today.... Geez, what a cheesey way to disguise what looks to be like an escort service.

Here, meet Anastasia after she makes her way to Washington DC in America...

WARNING: Link opens to elicit nudity and sexual advertisement

http://www.escortcityguide.com/Washington/FemaleEscorts/Anastasia/Anastasia.htm

Oops.... her nationality is ???

Thanks.

Kestral · April 4, 2007

For example, I'm really not so sure that American women are more materialistic and superficial than American Men. Perhaps you know something I don't know. I'm also not sure that you know what you're talking about regarding women around the world. I say this because I don't know how a person would gain first-hand knowledge of this sort of thing. Maybe you're some sort of globe-trotting social scientist?

Hi emdub, I hope I made it clear that I can only express my own views on the matter. I'm not a globe trotting social scientist or a speaker for all men out there, I'm just a guy going through his own life. I was asked a question and I felt you deserved a candid answer, so I took the chance and stuck my neck out to say what I wanted to say.

Maybe other people out there have a completely different experience and viewpoint, that's fine. I don't speak for them, I only speak for me, and apparently, it's resonated with people here.

I think at the end of the day, as someone else mentioned, it seems women in Western culture want the equality AND the chivalry, whichever is most advantageous to them at whatever moment, and I'm just calling it out.

The fact is, the genders are different and it may just be, that the only way to be truly "equal" is to accept these differences.

As said, I'm not a social scientist but I have a friend who is a doctor, he has done nothing but counsel married couples for the last 10 years and he's writing a book. He told me something very interesting...

He said that out of ALL the cases where he counselled couples where the woman asked the man to marry him, they could be married 3, 7 20 or even 40 years, the woman resents the man for not taking the lead and asking to marry her instead of the other way around. 100% of the time I asked him? Yes, was his answer. He used this and a few other case study observations ot build the hypothesis that despite "equality", women still want men to lead, to be the one to ask the girl to marry, etc... But what's wrong with a woman asking a guy to marry her, by "feminist" logic, that should be fine. So why are they upset? Perhaps it's not all that its cracked up to be.

Yet tell a "feminist" that women like a man who can lead, and she'll start talking about how the guy is a caveman that just wants to dominate women and tell her what to do. No, no and NO. Completely misses the point.

Now, I did want to address your point about materialism between women and men. I have no issue with women and men being equally materialistic. Heck, we're discussing this on a guitar gear forum here, and if you look at my back posts, I take great pleasure in posting pictures of my very expensive music gear. I revel in it. I also drive a BMW, only wear True Religion jeans.

The difference is this: I pay my own way and do not expect anyone else to pay my way.

Whereas I've noticed that women will want to find a man so he can pay her way, or he can cover all the expenses with the money he makes while she can spend her paycheck on $500 Blahnik shoes, $1000 Louis Vitton bags, $700 D&G sunglasses, etc etc etc...

I had one female coworker, recently divorced, say to me, "I hate being not having a husband so he can pay all the bills while I spend my paycheck on toys. I want to marry again so then someone else can pay my bills and I can buy all the things I want."

I was stunned, to say the very least. I see undercurrents in this in how Western women think all the time, but to have someone (who I actually consider a dear, sweet and attractive young woman) spell it out so blatantly and without shame was very surprising.

That's a huge difference, in thinking. I pay my own way, she expects me to pay her way too? I don't think so. If she wants a wage slave, she can find someone else.

And one last observation on this issue. Someone asked me about the joys of single life in an email today and here was my response...

I like to play electric guitar... LOUD. Most wives would not "allow" that in "her" house (even though you're paying the mortgage).

Turn up the guitar amp, step on the distortion pedal and hit it HARD.

I also buy the finest instruments out there... American made Fender and Gibson guitars (no Mexican or Japanese cheapo guitars), guitar amp that uses vacuum tubes, vintage effects pedals and rack gear, each piece costing a week's salary or more. Only the best for me. I also drive a BMW.

Yet I am not only debt free but cash flow and net worth strongly in the green.

Why is it that with one income, as a single guy I can afford to buy all the finers things life has to offer for myself yet I see couples with double my income and that's not enough to satisfy cupcake's "needs" let alone wants??

UstadKhanAli · April 5, 2007

Well, in terms of women being more materialistic than men in Western society, I'd have to agree with you, as much as I'd prefer not to. I don't think it's a popular view. As someone who has an undergraduate degree in Psychology and had read quite a bit and talked to a lot of people from quite a few countries, it seems obvious to me that many (if not most) Western women want a man to provide for them and take care of them (as much as many say that they want to be independent), and in our capitalistic culture, that means someone who makes money. Most women that I know will either joke about it or plainly admit it so I don't think this will be huge shock to many even though some may not find it "P.C." (too bad). With couples, there's a huge social stigma attached when the woman earns more than the man. Obviously, it's not true of *all* women - that'd be a ludicrous statement. People constantly make jokes about the wife running around with the credit card spending her husband's money. There's quite a bit of things that point to women being more materialistic than men in general. Conversations with women, women's magazines, personal ads, and what they generally look for in a man seem to bear this out.

As far as women wanting a man to "take charge" or lead, I'd also have to say that it's generally true - more true than I would have ever imagined (I'm still kinda wrapping my head around this). Whether it's genetically ingrained or whatever, I don't have the answer, but it's very interesting when you talk to clinical therapists - in therapy, they'll suggest that the man "take charge" a bit more, knowing that this is what the woman wants. They're not saying that the man should boss the woman around or be insensitive, but that he should initiate things, suggest things, do things, and basically take the bull by the horns. And most of the clinical therapists I've spoken to are *women*. Very interesting.

At any rate, I hope that people don't read this as a dismantling of what women have worked very hard to gain - I respect that. I'm not denigrating women. But I'm not going to shrink from observation and empirical evidence, either.

UstadKhanAli · April 5, 2007

Wow, kestral.... Throughout history there have been the rare people who go ahead and dare to speak truths which many like them feel, but which no-one dare speak aloud.

You are one of these people.

It's a bold series of statements, something that set people's teeth grinding. But there's a lot of truth to it. I don't agree with everything Kestral said, but I hope that people read that and at least think about it. I strongly disagree with the equal wages. I don't think it's there yet in general except in professions such as public school teaching, which have largely been female-dominated anyway. And the classroom setting, as discussed in great detail by Newsweek and other publications recently, is largely geared towards females.

Something else that bears mentioning...television programming. My friends and I had a conversation recently. We started thinking about how many television programs are geared towards women. Most of them are except for sports programming. Not movies, but television programs. It's astounding how many programs are geared towards only women and how few are geared towards only men.

I don't think that society is equal by a long shot. It's still largely male-dominated. But in certain areas, it's surprising how strong it's slanted towards women.

Ani · April 5, 2007

Women these days it seems not only do not want to work, but also want a nanny to take care of the kids, a maid to do the housework, leaving them free to watch Oprah and eat bon bons. They just want a free meal ticket.

Kestral,

Judging from the generalizations you are making about women; it seems obvious that you have never really ventured out much into the REAL world... You know very little about successful career women that are self sufficient or independently wealthy... and there are many out there. I can assure you that they are NOT not working and that most do not have time to set around watching Oprah and eating bon bons due to the fast pace of their careers.

:rolleyes:

Courts are known to be female biased...

Again, maybe you should do a bit of research. I've known a lot of men that have gained custody rights to their children simply because they hired a good attorney and I've also known women that have got stuck with all of the debt created in the marriage because the creditors knew that "she" had a guaranteed wages....

It's a TWO WAY STREET....

Geoff Grace · April 5, 2007

Sure, things have come a long way; but in many areas, there still isn't equallity between the sexes.

Yes, in some cases -- child custody and the draft being two -- the inequality favors women. But in most cases, it favors men.

Take a look at the working poor and you'll find it disproportionally female. Similarly, the heads of corporations and other members of the world's most powerful elite are disproportionally male.

Best,

Geoff

UstadKhanAli · April 5, 2007

Yes, in some cases -- child custody and the draft being two -- the inequality favors women. But in most cases, it favors men.

Take a look at the working poor and you'll find it

disproportionally female

. Similarly, the

heads of corporations

and other members of the world's most powerful elite are disproportionally male.

Definitely. Wage equality (or influence and power, for that matter) aren't even close.

In many parts of the world, it's far worse than the ratio shown on Geoff's link.

Kestral · April 5, 2007

Kestral,

Judging from the generalizations you are making about women; it seems obvious that you have never really ventured out much into the REAL world... You know very little about successful career women that are self sufficient or independently wealthy... and there are many out there. I can assure you that they are NOT not working and that most do not have time to set around watching Oprah and eating bon bons due to the fast pace of their careers.

Wow. Just wow.

Pot... kettle... black.

You know nothing about me yet you have already made the judgement call about me and tell me what I should do? You just made a baseless value judgement without getting any facts. Nice.

Perhaps you should get out there yourself and venture into the REAL world and actually know who you're talking about before you speak. Why the hate and bitterness?

I get out enough, thank you very much.

I work in a Fortune 500 company as a manager. My boss, a woman, is the director. My boss' boss, the general manager, is also a woman. They are both highly competent and I have a massive amount of respect for them for their professionalism and high level of competence.

They are the exception, not because of discrimination, but they made certain choices and sacrifices to get there, just like any man would. My boss did not have children, because she decided a career was more important to her. My boss' boss had children early so she could then make a run at her career afterwards.

Look before you judge, lest you make yourself out to be one of thest Western women I'm "generalizing" about.

And yeah, I'm generalizing. So what? We're having a broad stroke discussion here and others have already agreed that *in general*, what I said has a very strong grain of truth and merit to it. I cannot account for the 1%'s and all the little exceptions, can you? What did you expect me to do? Address each and every 200 million or so individual woman in the Western world seperately and qualify for each one? Wow, talk about ridiculous expectations (of a Western woman)

If you want to do that, then do it yourself.

philbo · April 5, 2007