Made in the USA . A viewpoint from a Brit.

[bsman]

I disagree that the US now is comparable to the UK in the 70s. In the 70s, the folks in the UK knew they were getting the shaft and did things (rioting in Brixton, squatting, writing songs like "Anarchy for the UK", etc.) whereas in the US, even though the political and economic realities are approaching similar straits, most of us here are sufficiently anaesthetized with TV, iPods and SUVs that we don't even notice our country circling the drain...

[klinefelter]

If we could get rid of a majority of the illegal immigrants, we could bring up wages and Americans will do those jobs.

 

 

No offense to FOX "News," but the thought that illegal immigrants = loss of American jobs is a fallacy.

 

Immigrants do a lot of the jobs we Americans refuse to do (or we won't do for the low wages they're paid). High paying manufacturing jobs (for which most illegal aliens aren't qualified) are gone due to American companies outsourcing their production to foreign companies (primarily China). To think that once all of the illegal aliens are bussed back over the border Joe Six-Pack (with only a high-school education) is going to go back to work at his factory job making $15+ an hour is delusional.

 

Joe Six-Pack is never going to clean motel rooms for $6.55 an hour.

[Pixiemixer]

"(rioting in Brixton, squatting, writing songs like "Anarchy for the UK", etc.) "

That wasn't really very common, the reality of Britain in the 70s was bad haircuts, American TV, Smash (instant mash) and Top of the Pops. I know that's not quite as romantic and revolutionary, but that's the truth.

[Pixiemixer]

"

IMHO everyone over the pond has been playing catch up ever since 1922"

 

Again...UTTER DRIVEL!!!

 

Beatles, Stones, the Who, Hendrix (had to make it here first). We even had to introduce you to blues

[bsman]

"(rioting in Brixton, squatting, writing songs like "Anarchy for the UK", etc.) " That wasn't really very common, the reality of Britain in the 70s was bad haircuts, American TV, Smash (instant mash) and Top of the Pops. I know that's not quite as romantic and revolutionary, but that's the truth.

 

 

 

Oh man -- you've destroyed my idealized view of the 70s in England!

 

Actually, I realize that it's pretty typical of any place and time that about 90% of the people are sheep. However, I still think that the "Iron Maiden" at her worst was a better shepherd than the truly evil people who currently seem to be foisting a particularly greed-motivated form of fascism on my country...

[bsman]

We even had to introduce you to blues

That's sort of BS. There were a LOT of folks still listening to, playing, and enjoying the blues here well before the Yardbirds. Only thing is, most of 'em weren't blue-eyed!

[klinefelter]

Any country that is responsible for these is OK in my book!

[59humbucker]

No. You missed the OP's point handily. He briefly referenced the '70's, then went on to say that "Made in the USA to a Brit is like Made in Britain in the 70's." Is. Currently. He wasn't comparing 1970's MIA and 1970's MIB. He was comparing current MIA to 1970's MIB. Then he goes on to say, "Most Brits feel that Gibson's guitars are second rate poorly built and inadequate to Japanese guitars," as if Gibson is the only MIA brand worth mentioning. I'm aware Gibsons are getting a bad QC rep, but what about MIA Fenders? MIA G&L's, MIA Hamers? MIA Washburns? Or any of a thousand others? In other words, assuming for a second that the OP's assessment of what "most Brits" think is accurate, then Brit attitude toward MIA instruments = FAILZ.

 

 

It's not what "most Brits" think

 

See my sig

 

It might be what most forumites think

 

 

They're still wrong

[lowendnyc]

America still has it's design and manfacturing base. The UK has nothing left, its all gone. We are just a massive dockyard that imports. Nothing is Made in the UK anymore for two reasons. We dont have the skills and China does it better . Sad but True. We are but a cottage industry that serves to make tourists feel good about spending an extra

[Bruce Bennett]

" IMHO everyone over the pond has been playing catch up ever since 1922" Again...UTTER DRIVEL!!! Beatles, Stones, the Who, Hendrix (had to make it here first). We even had to introduce you to blues

First off I was talking about Electric guitar technology ONLY..

but since you insist

the Blues were INVENTED HERE so you COULDN'T have introduced us to anything... in fact it stands to reason that WE introduced them to YOU!
and you need to understand that the Blues as a genre has NEVER been huge here. not even with your performers. it's always been a bit of an underground thing. and there a reason why which I will not go into here.

one of our greatest rock perfomers (and still is) was treated very shabbily by Britain. thrown out of the country I believe in 1957-58.... so hows that for english taste.

the only reason the "British Invasion" ever took place is

1. most of our major stars all DIED (or went to the army) within 2 years (1958-1960) of each other. .

2. You guys had two bands that actually were good..... and they showed all the other brits how to do it.....and it took you 3 years to do so from 1960.

and with Americans at a loss for music during that "dead time" well, we know a good thing when we hear it. because we always have.

[MickSlick]

I'm an American and I pretty much agree with the OP. My last two guitar purchases were from Japan (Edwards). I still like the USA Fenders, but, really I look to Japan for everthing else in regards to top quality for the dollar. And for good middle of the road stuff, Korea is King IMHO.

[Doctor Morbius]

Any country that is responsible for these is OK in my book!

And don't for get this guy - one of the all time great comedians.

[Dudleyjackson]

Splash and others. Any brand has an off unit or two, ask anyone who keeps their modern Gibson if they're really {censored}e. I ain't played that many, but none of those were bad.

I hear great things about "MIA Fenders, MIA G&L's, MIA Hamers,MIA Washburns ..." Like someone said. USA made guitars are usually ok. MIA women too:thu:

They key is just to try a few of each brand - guitars , you filthy minded...

You can find a Diamond of a

[Splashproof]

The savings were never really passed on. It was still cheaper to buy mail order from the states and pay import duty. On the flip side of the coin, PRS are seen as pure quality and worth the

[ashasha]

No offense to FOX "News," but the thought that illegal immigrants = loss of American jobs is a fallacy. Immigrants do a lot of the jobs we Americans refuse to do (or we won't do for the low wages they're paid). High paying manufacturing jobs (for which most illegal aliens aren't qualified) are gone due to American companies outsourcing their production to foreign companies (primarily China). To think that once all of the illegal aliens are bussed back over the border Joe Six-Pack (with only a high-school education) is going to go back to work at his factory job making $15+ an hour is delusional. Joe Six-Pack is never going to clean motel rooms for $6.55 an hour.

Exactly frickin right. The cost of hiring Americans to do the jobs that most of these immigrants are doing would not help the economy at all...it would cripple it. Imagine paying $9.00 for a hamburger at McDonalds and probably waiting longer because the guy who had to settle for this job isn't employable and has no skills to work elsewhere.

The savings that companies make by employing immigrants for much lower wages is part of what makes the cost of living for the rest of us comfortable. Same goes for overseas manufacturing. I guarantee no one in those factories has delusions of owning a mansion or the sense of entitlement that so many here have. I blame television for a lot of that. Slackers are sensationalized and everyone on TV has a nice house no matter how stupid or inept they are.

I bet that most of those factories don't spend a lot of money on benefits either. All of that hard work and suffering gets passed on to us in savings as consumers.

I've worked in the fields with a lot of immigrants (probably a lot of illegals) as a youngster and I can tell you that no matter how hard I worked I could not keep up with them. I also know that at 13 years old I was making more than most of them. I also know that most of my peers at the time would have never considered working in those conditions for that kind of pay or even triple. I know for a fact that they couldn't have outworked any of those immigrants either.

As for the OP, I am pretty sure that a lot of the Gibsons that get shipped are not superior instruments. That isn't how global commerce always works. I remember while living in Korea that I couldn't believe the quality of the products by Samsung and LG. I mean most of the stuff that we see in the states by them at that time was pretty damn cheap and second rate.

Then I looked at the prices and tried to calculate the price after import taxes. Basically a nice microwave would have cost about $900. No one is going to buy that. Its about trying to maximize the profit margin.

By the time you build a guitar, ship it, pay import/export taxes, etc the profit margin shrinks a lot. So perhaps some of those guitars are built without the care and attention or even all the bells and whistles or the final or similar finishing process. Costs have to be cut somewhere to make it marketable.

As for the ridiculous prices, well some of that is also on the dealer and local market. They know that they are one of the only places that you can get that Gibson and they are going to capitolize on that fact. Supply and demand.

[balthazarr]

 

If You buy a Basic Marshall/Vox or any other Low priced owned guitar based product, it's 99% certain to have been made in China/Vietnam even if it was Designed or specced here or In the USA.

 

 

See, that is what is so bad.

It's still profitable to make a product nearly 10K miles away and ship it to the country it was designed to sell, rather than manufacture it there, as well.

Something is clearly wrong with this picture.

[Kerzeck]

Q. Why are there are no British computer manufacturers?

 

 

 

A. They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil.

[billythegoat]

the Blues were INVENTED HERE so you COULDN'T have introduced us to anything... in fact it stands to reason that WE introduced them to YOU! and you need to understand that the Blues as a genre has NEVER been huge here. not even with your performers. it's always been a bit of an underground thing. and there a reason why which I will not go into here.

 

 

The Stones openly admit to using/stealing/playing black American music.

[fmw]

Occasionally, I get convinced that America bashing is a national sport in Europe. To the OP: The war ended in 1814. Probably time to get over it.

[goodhonk]

 

that a lot of the Gibsons that get shipped are not superior instruments. That isn't how global commerce always works. I remember while living in Korea that I couldn't believe the quality of the products by Samsung and LG. I mean most of the stuff that we see in the states by them at that time was pretty damn cheap and second rate. Then I looked at the prices and tried to calculate the price after import taxes. Basically a nice microwave would have cost about $900. No one is going to buy that. Its about trying to maximize the profit margin. By the time you build a guitar, ship it, pay import/export taxes, etc the profit margin shrinks a lot. So perhaps some of those guitars are built without the care and attention or even all the bells and whistles or the final or similar finishing process. Costs have to be cut somewhere to make it marketable. As for the ridiculous prices, well some of that is also on the dealer and local market. They know that they are one of the only places that you can get that Gibson and they are going to capitolize on that fact. Supply and demand.

 

 

 

wow, you know alot.

[Pixiemixer]

I'm not America bashing. I love America and American guitars, so I actually disagree with the original poster. But on the subject of blues etc, few if any blues artists were getting airplay on white radio in the 50s and early 60s. The blues artists of the time, that could, made their money by doing gigs in Europe at the invitation of people like Alexis Korner. Its only when "blue eyed" British musicians (with a little help from Elvis a few years earlier) started re-interpreting the blues did it become anywhere close to mainstream in the US.

 

Maybe CSM could shed some more light on this, it's a fascinating thing that happened and an interesting time..

[59humbucker]

Maybe CSM could shed some more light on this, it's a fascinating thing that happened and an interesting time..

 

 

maybe if he wasn't banninated:cop:

[scolfax]

For me, as a Euro user, there's never been a better time to buy gear from Japan, US and even the UK. I got myself a new Gretsch Anniversary from a seller in New York for

[Johnny Z]

This might be interesting to some and antagonistic to others. Being a Brit and living through the 70's during the winter of discontent, most Brits accept that 'Made in Britain' meant poor quality rubbish. Let us take some British brand names and explore this in more detail : Marshall, Laney , Burns , Shergold and Wem. Lovely stuff hey !. NO they were {censored}e. Wem was cheap low end {censored}e that the local pikeys bought. Marshall was living of Hendrix and Page, but often went wrong, fell apart and stank of Fish and Chips. Burns and Shergold were designed by blind people with there arms tied behind there backs. Laney was ok'ish. In the mid to late 1970's " Made in Japan " was the buzz word. It was well built, well designed and light years ahead of anything the Brits could even dream off. Today, Britain has very little manufacturing industry and most of the products are outsourced to China. Us Brits accepted this and have moved on. But here's the rub. Us Brits have taken Japan under our wing, We look to Japan for quality. Made in the USA to a Brit is like Made in Britain in the 70's. Most Brits feel that Gibson's guitars are second rate poorly built and inadequate to Japanese guitars. We have the British government trying establish if the UK wants to be a state of the USA or a Country within Europe. Yet along we want to be Japanese. The world is {censored}ed up beyond belief. I don't even know if my name is Bob, Gustaff or Yohismoto

 

 

 

A sad state of afairs. I always thought made in Brit. ment it had some vibe, kind of cool but not quite the quality of made in USA. Still My '64 Vox Pacemaker was made in California.

[steve_man]

This might be interesting to some and antagonistic to others. Being a Brit and living through the 70's during the winter of discontent, most Brits accept that 'Made in Britain' meant poor quality rubbish. Let us take some British brand names and explore this in more detail : Marshall, Laney , Burns , Shergold and Wem. Lovely stuff hey !. NO they were {censored}e. Wem was cheap low end {censored}e that the local pikeys bought. Marshall was living of Hendrix and Page, but often went wrong, fell apart and stank of Fish and Chips. Burns and Shergold were designed by blind people with there arms tied behind there backs. Laney was ok'ish. In the mid to late 1970's " Made in Japan " was the buzz word. It was well built, well designed and light years ahead of anything the Brits could even dream off. Today, Britain has very little manufacturing industry and most of the products are outsourced to China. Us Brits accepted this and have moved on. But here's the rub. Us Brits have taken Japan under our wing, We look to Japan for quality. Made in the USA to a Brit is like Made in Britain in the 70's. Most Brits feel that Gibson's guitars are second rate poorly built and inadequate to Japanese guitars. We have the British government trying establish if the UK wants to be a state of the USA or a Country within Europe. Yet along we want to be Japanese. The world is {censored}ed up beyond belief. I don't even know if my name is Bob, Gustaff or Yohismoto

Yeah...and you probably wear one of these too...



This is the most pointless post in the history of posts....

Who cares? Just buy your Ibanez and move on with life...