(Not So New) G.D. = L.P. Gingerburst

[Bradster]

Or, Ginger turns out to be a Gilligan.

 

 

Thanks to RothNRoll and the other zealots in the HOT DEALS thread, I succumbed to GAS and ordered one of the LP Standard 60's neck Gingerbursts using the M123 price match and the Gearup at $1,530 w/shipping. This was advertised as a closeout color and not a blemish.

 

 

 

The first thing I notice is that the staples have been torn open, the box taped shut, and a florescent "MFI Case Transfer" sticker.

 

 

 

Yet the Gibson label matches the Serial #, so this would seem to have been the original carton that it left the factory in. Further examination reveals a prior shipping label to someone with the initials "PBR" in Hopatcong, NJ from 3 weeks prior.

 

 

 

Opening the case, the next thing I notice is that the hang tags which are usually woven between the strings or tied to a machine head are stuffed in the bling pocket instead. So this has definitely been taken out of the case and played since leaving the factory. The likelihood here is this guy in NJ purchased it and returned it.

 

 

 

Detailed examination of the guitar reveals several glaring cosmetic defects, making it obvious why this factory second instrument was returned:

 

 

Those are scratches in the finish and not reflections.

 

These below are all shoddy sanding that was simply stained and varnished over:

 

 

 

Still with me? Now the fun begins. Called M123 Customer Denial-Of-Service and explained to the troglodyte, er, representative the dilemma. They offer to exchange it, saying there is one showing in stock, and explained an apparently new exchange policy: you must ship the defective item back before they will ship the replacement. Now I've sent many a defective item back to both M123 and MF and have always had the replacement shipped that day, with the caveat being that if they don't receive the defective item within something like 21 days I would be charged for a second. Ah, the good old days.

 

I attempted to convey the slim-to-none chance that the one single item would still be in stock (with no chance of ever being restocked) long enough for me to return the blemished one, but was told policy is policy. I also asked if there was any way to guarantee that the replacement was not also a prior return and/or blemish. I was told there was no way to tell, you get the luck of the draw. Then I was told not to worry.

 

So I worried.

 

 

I then asked instead for a new order of the same item (at the same price) that could be shipped today and just return the blem for a refund. Apparently this now requires a "let me speak with a supervisor" action and being put on hold. Which resulted in an immediate disconnection. "If you'd like to make a call, please hang up..."

 

 

 

Called back and got another trog, and asked to speak with the previous trog by name -- yet this one insists on handling it themselves (what, are they paid piecemeal?). So we start the whole process over again except (drum roll please)...the one and only item in stock is now gone (cymbal crash, followed by descending trumpet glissando 'wah wah wah'). When I explained that trog #1 assured me that there was one available only moments ago and that it would be mine trog #2's response was, "Oh, they aren't supposed to give out inventory numbers...". What, this is now a trade secret? Only recourse is to return for a refund and be done with it.

 

 

 

The only light at the end of the tunnel here (besides the oncoming train) is that I seem to be one of the lucky who got in on the Cranberry STOD. The same constraints here would seem to apply, namely that this is the dregs of the inventory and any replacement for a defective item is beyond impossible.

[maltomario]

wow man that sucks. I went thru a similar experience but mine had to do with stripped mounting screws and tarnished parts - the finish was fortunately perfect. I ended up keeping mine (got it for a good price) and fixing the problems myself.

 

In your case, if you you dig the guitar just play the {censored} out of it. Or, contact gibson Customer service (they actually seem to care!). They will likely ask you to send it back to gibson for evaluation.

 

Thats pretty {censored}ty business what they did - passing off returns as a-stock goods. The good news is that the guitar can be sanded and refinished, so its not like its the end of the world.

 

Anyway, good luck to you. post here and let us know how you make out after talking to gibson.

[ashasha]

Call them back. I doubt that this guitar is such a hot seller that it disappeared in 2 minutes. Chances are very high that the original guy put it on an order which would have pulled it from inventory at that time. I've had something similar to me happen before. I was chasing down a blemished tele for like 3 days that kept popping up in the outlet and disappearing and it took a few days to pin it down.

 

I just got done with something similar with Music123 and an item not being in stock after the order was accepted and they just gave me a special quote for the same price.

 

I've only bought a few guitars and stuff from them, but after this latest issue and the fantastic resolution I am very high on them right now.

[ignatz]

Well, now you have a Les Paul that you can take to bar gigs, spill beer on, drop down stairs, and play the bejeezus out of with no feelings of guilt. It's pre-disastered. Look, it sounds great, right? Cool. PLAY the {censored}er.

[leopardstar]

the very reason i will no longer deal with any MF, GC online or M123. and i 'll be dammed i think you got it right when you said it was a factory 2nd, thats the first gibson that in over 30 years of playing looking at gibsons that i've seen a f^^ked up one, well new that is.

[Mr.Tramples]

You gotta wonder how difficult it would be to aquire a job at the Gibson plant, these are high dollar guitars here, stuff like that should have been inspected. Unless Music123 deals in blemished stock.

[rock-lobster]

{censored}, that's just wrong. i guess, returning it is the best option

 

it blows goats, but i'm not sure of anyway to win this scenario.

[Electric Blues]

Remember, only Gibson is good enough. That kind of high quality merchandise is what they are famous for.Also, their instruments are very exclusive and now they only deal with high quality outlets... like Music 123

[Bradster]

@ashasha: Thanks. I should have added that I had also considered that and asked Trog #2 if it was already pulled for me on a new order, but they insisted that that was impossible. The tone of #2 was more or less, "are we done now?". Of course, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a shipping confirmation popped up in the next day or two. MF/123 is not so much an entity of evil as they are profoundly incompetent. The DMV of music gear (cue Patty and Selma).

 

 

@maltomario, leopardstar: This is my fourth new Gibson in as many years (actually 5, but I sent back the first ES-339 'cause the neck was a baseball bat) and this is the first that was ever in any way flawed. Although I have heard the scuttlebutt from others who have had clinkers from the factory. I'm really just trying to support my fellow American workers...really.

 

I guess I can try and contact Gibson and at least give them a chance to offer some repair. Been a fan for 30 years, so I'd hate to have this as my last new Gibson!

 

Cosmetics aside though it plays like a dream, except that my hand "feels" the rough patch on the back of the neck around the 10th fret. And I the sound of those Burstbuckers. The bound neck is a huge step up from the unbound one on the LP Studio. Maybe I'm just being anal-retentive here, expecting a brand new guitar that lists for over $3G to be flawless? And the color is stunning. Much richer and brighter than the pictures would give justice to.

 

 

As for a gigging axe, I gave that up 20 years ago. (When, BTW, I had a beautiful blonde LP Custom that was factory second -- it was even marked as such on the back of the headstock -- though I could never find the flaw). Unfortunately, some thieving magpie stole it and brought it back to his nest. No idea why QA at Gibson didn't flag this one as a second?

[GilmourD]

I'd rather be teabagged by Henry Juszkiewicz than deal with his crappy QC.

[maltomario]

bradster,

FWIW, i contacted Gibson and they are sending me replacement hardware that was tarnished on the guitar, free of charge. (see this thread for a little background on my situation). But in my defense I did take plenty of photos (and even videos!) and documented my claim. So I would approach it the same way - take photos, contact customer service, explain your situation. For finish defects like that, I would personally ship that back to gibson rather than go thru the hassle of stripping/sanding/refinishing myself. let them do the work - after all like you said it is a $3k list guitar and it should have never left the factory in that condition.

 

and P.S. I agree with you - an expensive guitar like that should never have left factory. Unnacceptable and if I were you I too would be displeased. Let me know how you make out.

 

P.P.S. are you sure its the wood that wasnt sanded or just the nitro? If its nitro you should be able to wetsand / buff it out with a little bit of time and elbow grease. Just a thought.

 

good luck!

[Eddie]

Detailed examination of the guitar reveals several glaring cosmetic defects, making it obvious why this factory second instrument was returned: Those are scratches in the finish and not reflections. These below are all shoddy sanding that was simply stained and varnished over:

 

The scratches could indeed be caused by someone mishandling the guitar. As you said, perhaps it's a return.

 

Cosmetic defects, shoddy sanding, etc., are part of the Gibson mystique. It adds mojo to the instrument. Gibson haters don't understand this (just kidding).

 

Here's something I wrote a few months ago:

Quality: Mediocre, especially considering the price. It's not a bad guitar at all, so to clarify, given the retail of >$3000 and street price of $1800 I would expect higher quality. For example, they could include StrapLocks, and TonePros bridge and tailpiece (and perhaps tuners). Attention to detail is also substandard. Some parts of the mahogany feel smooth, while others feel very rough. The headstock is a bit dirty at the top from what I believe to be glue. I've had guitars from Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc., with much better quality control and attention to detail than Gibson USA.

 

Full thread

 

I hope you're able to get a refund or exchange.

I just ordered a Gibson because of the SDOTD. If not for that, I would rather buy them from Saul at Centre City Music.

[Eddie]

 

bradster, FWIW, i contacted Gibson and they are sending me replacement hardware that was tarnished on the guitar, free of charge.

 

 

My experience with Gibson's support was also positive. I don't have the guitar anymore, but that's another story.

 

Belated congratulations, and "teh big boobz" for you:

 

( o Y o )

[Doctor Morbius]

Ouch. There's absolutely no way I would keep that guitar. And with that many flaws it goes way beyond a blem.

[Geeter]

I'd rather be teabagged by Henry Juszkiewicz than deal with his crappy QC.

 

Eeeeewwwww!

[Bradster]

Thanks Eddie.

 

The scratches don't look to me like they could have been done after the finishing, unless the wood is so soft and the nitro so pliable that there is absolutely no fissuring or flaking, or exposed wood. The three different areas with the exact same surface pattern (which looks a bit too much like a wood rasp pattern) seem all to consistent to have happened by accident. Unless of course someone managed to strike the same object with the same amount of force in three different places. Look again at the one above the pickup switch. That can't possibly be anything other than very poor finish work. It looks to me right there that the body was 2 halves glued together and the back half wasn't properly sanded along this edge.

 

You nailed it though with this: "attention to detail", a.k.a. "God is in the details." Not just considering the list price but the fact that this is the flagship version of the flagship electric guitar in the Gibson line, I would have expected that everyone that handled this throughout the production process would have had more pride in their workmanship than this. It's not like they haven't been making these for, oh, over half a century.

 

Or it could be as simple as this was unlucky enough to have been the last one off the line on a Friday afternoon and too much "attention to detail" would have cut into happy hour.

 

As for mojo, I'd rather add my own thank you very much. What good is a ding or scratch if you don't have a juicy story to along with it? "Ya see this dent, about the shape of a bloke's head? Well this happened that night when...". And no, my M123 tragicomedy doesn't qualify.

 

I'll have to disagree with you though on the hardware upgrades. I really like the LP Standard because that's what it's supposed to represent: the Gold Standard. A solid, very well built, playing, and sounding instrument. Not some blinged-out Custom. Of course you can always add the bling if you wish but you can't really add quality of workmanship that wasn't there in the first place. And that I thought I was paying for. And if I had paid street -- or worse -- for this quality, I'd be outraged.

 

Anyway, I'd like to give Gibson a say in the matter before I get any more medieval on them in public. And they best pick up the tab for shipping too!

[Bradster]

maltomario,

 

Thanks for that. I don't know how I missed your post earlier. Anything with a "Gibson Les Paul" in the title usually warrants an immediate open.

 

I had to look twice at the pics though to see the spots you were talking about. I was too distracted by your flawless finish! And I do like that color, actually.

 

The bits scattered on the headstock and cutaway look at first glance to be sawdust. I say that b/c my ES-339 (both actually) had bits of sawdust on them. Not quite sure if that was from the case (which, in spite of saying "Gibson Custom Shop" proudly on the outside, is a bit of an underachiever IMHO) or just factory debris. I'm thinking this is a Gibson calling of sorts?

 

I don't really want to get into doing the refinish work myself. My woodworking days were gone before my gigging days. Best left to professionals.

 

 

edit: I just noticed also that you say this is your first L.P. Ulp. At least I had some positive history to go on. I congratulate you on keeping a positive outlook. With something as high on a pedestal as these guitars, it would be far too easy to just "Meh. What's all the hype over this garbage?"

 

 

 

Doctor Morbius,

 

That was of course my first reaction. But I've kinda bonded with her at this point. She does play and sound real purdy and all. We'll see what Gibson has to say for themselves....

[GAS Man]

My sincere condolences

 

Having suffered many a battle with troglodytes and having had the MF chain pawn returned crap off on me as new merchandise, I can feel your pain.

 

Funny though, you must not have gotten the docjeff memo. Gibson QC issues don't exist per his sampling of 7 mid to higher end Gibsons.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1964956

[docjeffrey]

Why do you people continue to buy expensive guitars online? If you expect to get a perfect instrument, don't buy it from MF, 123, or American Musical's bargain bin. They are high volume dealers who are going to have plenty of returns that they mark down and CLEARLY post as blemished items.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

 

Doctor Morbius, That was of course my first reaction. But I've kinda bonded with her at this point. She does play and sound real purdy and all. We'll see what Gibson has to say for themselves....

Do what you want but I'd still be on the phone to said troglodytes and get your PDF return label NOW. You don't have to necessarily use it, but get it to cover your ass. I called MF's trogs and asked for a return label 3 different times before I finally got one.

 

 

Quite honestly, that Gibson goes way beyond blem territory. I wouldn't even pay $300 for an Epiphone that had that many {censored}ups much less the pile o' money it took to buy that Les Paul.

[Eddie]

 

Why do you people continue to buy expensive guitars online? If you expect to get a perfect instrument, don't buy it from MF, 123, or American Musical's bargain bin. They are high volume dealers who are going to have plenty of returns that they mark down and CLEARLY post as blemished items.

 

 

That may be true regarding MF, M123, AM, etc., but I see no problem with buying guitars -expensive or cheap- online. In fact, in some cases it would be almost impossible to get some expensive guitars unless you buy them online.

[GAS Man]

I risk the on-line buying because I get tingly feelings when the sales prices get down around 50% of list. I've only been able to pull that off a couple times at retail outlets. But did score a Parker Fly at 42% of MSRP and a '52 Fender Tele at 50% MSRP at the brick and mortars. It's just that it's easier to snag those deals by browsing on line.

 

And unless you are getting a blow out and they're all gone, you can always do an exchange.

 

My last bummer like you're describing was on a Gibson GOW Explorer Mahogany Pro. They had it on sale for $999.99, but it showed up with white banding around the Gibson box, looked like it'd been to hell and back, the top of the box was open, and my sales receipt was missing (as well as the packing). The case had obviously taken a bump or two because its lid closing was a hair off alignment, it also had the taped over address of the previous "ship to", just like you're describing, and it had light pick scratches and one deeper scratch, still just in the nitro, just south of the bridge.

 

So I took photos and they knocked it down to $$850. Since the grain matching was decent, it worked for me.

 

You might want to see what kind of deal you can get for the blems if you can stand looking at them. It's still a pretty good price for a LP Std, although I'm surprised by the amount of blemishes. But I guess the odd part is that MF used to be better about selling blems where you couldn't even find the blem, and selling new stuff that was actually new. Maybe it's safer now to buy blems from them. Just saying, it is confusing when they have a policy of selling blems as blems and then they start mixing those in (and with more significant issues) with the factory fresh pieces.

 

But if you're interested, try for another 15% off. I was told that's about their max for significant blems.

[Bradster]

docjeffrey,

 

I stated that this was sold as a "discontinued" color and not a blemish. If it was advertised as such I would have no beef with MF/123. And someone had already returned it once, so at the very least they were aware it was not "new".

 

And, as stated, four other Gibson guitars previously ordered were flawless. This experience certainly hasn't soured me on internet purchases, although it's another notch on the handle toward this vendor.

 

 

Morbius,

 

Already have the label printed and ready, just in case!

[GAS Man]

By the way dude,

 

Let's see the up side.

 

I mean, I was soooooo tempted to add one of those to my stable. Since I already have some nice LPs, including a reissue '59, sanity prevailed and I decided I didn't need another LP Standard. But that color was very tempting.

 

So toss us a cookie, let's see a full frontal nude shot.

[brandass]

Why do you people continue to buy expensive guitars online? If you expect to get a perfect instrument, don't buy it from MF, 123, or American Musical's bargain bin. They are high volume dealers who are going to have plenty of returns that they mark down and CLEARLY post as blemished items.

 

Did you read Bradster's initial post?

 

"This was advertised as a closeout color and not a blemish."

 

And I agree with the apeman: that puppy goes well beyond the blems I've seen, even at much lower price ranges. To call it a blem would be generous; to sell it as non-blem... :cop: