(Not So New) G.D. = L.P. Gingerburst

[steve_man]

I'd send that thing back as fast as I could. If you pay $1500 for a guitar, it should be PERFECT. Don't settle, send it back...

[brandass]

Late on the scene, and the Bradster can defend himself! Let it ride...

[GAS Man]

Did you read Bradster's initial post? "This was advertised as a closeout color and not a blemish." And I agree with the apeman: that puppy goes well beyond the blems I've seen, even at much lower price ranges. To call it a blem would be generous; to sell it as non-blem... :cop:

 

Agreed, but at $1530, that's 66% of new prices, so he's already got it at less than used cost (which I usually guestimate at 70% if in good condition).

 

So if you can get another $230 off, or in store credit, then you're talking some major savings. Like getting a biffed Standard at Studio prices.

 

But you'll need to talk to a troglodyte supervisor's supervisor to score that much off, but dang, those blems demand satisfaction! Or at least more cowbell!

 

Good luck!! Sincerely

[docjeffrey]

 

I risk the on-line buying because I get tingly feelings when the sales prices get down around 50% of list. I've only been able to pull that off a couple times at retail outlets.

 

 

OK, fair enough.

 

But the big online retailers have lots of returns, and when they mark something down $700 below what the blems go for, you gotta figure that you may have to go around a couple of times.

[brandass]

Maybe a couple of go-rounds because there's inconsistency in play, and to get a good-feeling, good-sounding guit you've got to search. Totally agree. But super-obvious flaws like that have got to flag a guit as blem, or damaged, or whatever - it simply can't be sold as new.

[Bradster]

GAS Man,

 

Agree on your buying strategy. Don't know what the sales tax is in Jackass Overload, but here in LA County (crackass overload) it's 8.25% so add that to the online incentive. I'm sorry, but as a single professional I pay far too many taxes to this broke-ass state/county/city. I'll take any breaks I can get.

 

The other consideration is how "new" is a guitar, really, that's been hanging on the wall at a GC and having been thrashed on by every 15-year-old that walks through the door? Not that GC doesn't thoroughly wipe down each instrument after they're played...right? I'd rather take my chances with a new one, sight unseen, and trust that the manufacturer has their act together. Still batting in the low 90's with this tactic.

 

I keep going back to, "Am I just being a corksniffing prick?" After all, it's really only cosmetics. Functionally it's fine. And it does have mojo. Maybe no the mojo, but it has mojo.

 

More to that last statement, you really can't judge mojo in a 10 min. sitting at a store with a high-pressure salesperson standing over your shoulder, "so, should I wrap this up for you?". It's a very personal thing, don't you agree?

 

 

edit: pics in the a.m. so sunlight can do it justice.

[wedgehed II]

[docjeffrey]

^^I bought a Vox AC30TBX from American Musical a few years ago. It had been discontinued, and I was kicking myself for not buying one before they moved production to China. Out of the blue, one appeared on their closeout list a year after they had been discontinued.

 

Anyway, to make a long story short, the amp had ripped tolex, a bad preamp tube, a broken pedal (for the vibro/trem channel), and a dead input. It was sold as full warranty, new item.

 

I got a great deal on it to begin with, and if I would have sent it back, it would have been hard to find another for that price. Now they are just hard to find, period. I'm glad I kept it, even with its problems (they were easy to fix). For the price, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect.

[GAS Man]

Maybe a couple of go-rounds because there's inconsistency in play, and to get a good-feeling, good-sounding guit you've got to search. Totally agree. But super-obvious flaws like that have got to flag a guit as blem, or damaged, or whatever - it simply can't be sold as new.

 

 

 

^^ Yeah, it really seems to be something that's happening more with the MF chain lately.

 

I've bought 3 blems from MF before where I really couldn't find a blem to speak of. But then I've had a few "new" units show up recently that have definitely been around the bend before.

 

I doesn't make sense. They have to inspect returns, so it must be a case of warehouse workers who are pulling this {censored} more and more, i.e. tossing bad returns in with the good returns.

 

I recently had to return a "Not Factory Sealed" pedal to AMS cuz the damn thing was defective. Turn up the drive on channel 2 and it would crap out.

I almost blew my return on that purchase because I didn't get around to testing it out for a few weeks and the clock was ticking. But that was far more of an issue than just some broken cellophane.

 

I actually keep telling myself I need to throw in the GAS towel because the hassles have grown and make the pursuit of the hobby seem a bit defeating.

[brandass]

 

^^I bought a Vox AC30TBX from American Musical a few years ago. It had been discontinued, and I was kicking myself for not buying one before they moved production to China. Out of the blue, one appeared on their closeout list a year after they had been discontinued. Anyway, to make a long story short, the amp had ripped tolex, a bad preamp tube, a broken pedal (for the vibro/trem channel), and a dead input. It was sold as full warranty, new item. I got a great deal on it to begin with, and if I would have sent it back, it would have been hard to find another for that price. Now they are just hard to find, period. I'm glad I kept it, even with its problems (they were easy to fix). For the price, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect.

 

 

Don't know what I'd have done in that situation, but I wouldn't have been as sanguine about receiving something so beat up with no warning at all. Maybe document the dings and haggle for an additional price break? Or at least go on the record as being pissed? Seems like somebody there should get a little black mark next to their name, and sometimes there are follow-on effects as well - eg, MF sent around compensation coupons to some of the aggrieved recently. I'm no corksniffer, and tend to grin and bear it, but this case (and yours as well) seems beyond the pale IMO.

[Bradster]

...I actually keep telling myself I need to throw in the GAS towel because the hassles have grown and make the pursuit of the hobby seem a bit defeating.

I'm hoping the current economic climate in the U.S. will eat into sales enough that these jokers will have to try a little bit harder. Even Wal-Mart is stuggling these days. And Starbucks.

 

Unless you're a true professional, nothing puts the "discretionary" in discretionary spending like music gear. OK, maybe a wife.

[MickSlick]

By the Way - How was the burst color? I was really hoping someone would post "real" pictures of their Ginger Burst. Did you get any shots?

[GAS Man]

GAS Man, Agree on your buying strategy. Don't know what the sales tax is in Jackass Overload, but here in LA County (crackass overload) it's 8.25% so add that to the online incentive. I'm sorry, but as a single professional I pay far too many taxes to this broke-ass state/county/city. I'll take any breaks I can get. The other consideration is how "new" is a guitar, really, that's been hanging on the wall at a GC and having been thrashed on by every 15-year-old that walks through the door? Not that GC doesn't thoroughly wipe down each instrument after they're played...right? I'd rather take my chances with a new one, sight unseen, and trust that the manufacturer has their act together. Still batting in the low 90's with this tactic. I keep going back to, "Am I just being a corksniffing prick?" After all, it's really only cosmetics. Functionally it's fine. And it does have mojo. Maybe no the mojo, but it has mojo. More to that last statement, you really can't judge mojo in a 10 min. sitting at a store with a high-pressure salesperson standing over your shoulder, "so, should I wrap this up for you?". It's a very personal thing, don't you agree? edit: pics in the a.m. so sunlight can do it justice.

 

Yeah, it's going to be a tough choice for you.

 

I like Dr. Morbius' idea though. Get the return shipping label in hand so you can think about it. Those blems are significant fer sher, but you'll have to see if you can still bond with it.

 

I live in NW Washington State. It's 8.4% sales tax here, but no state or local income tax. Unfortunately, MF once had retail outlets here. Once they opened those stores, all their on-line sales became subject to Washington State sales tax.

It used to be sweet when they were based in Medford Or. No tax and I'd get my orders in two days. But now, every time they buy out a company like Music 123, I lose one more tax free place to shop. But I still sometimes buy from MF, because even with adding back in 8.4%, some of their blow out deals are still unbeatable. I've also had them ship stuff for me tax free to Oregon to relatives if I'm heading down there anyway to visit. The last time I did that I saved almost $300 that would have gone to the Governor.

 

I've been giving most of my business to Sweetwater lately. They offer good bargains if you call them up and dicker and I usually have seen the guitars pictured in their guitar gallery before they ship. You can select them by picture and serial number. Pretty cool.

 

I've got a Gibson SG Diablo coming tomorrow. They offered it to me for $1730 (MF's price is $2119), but I could see a bit of a flaw in the paint in their own picture, so they knocked it down some more to $1650. Hard to beat that deal, especially since it's an issue where you have to look at it in the right light and at the right angle to see it AND the blem is on the back.

 

It also helps with buying flame top guitars so you're not throwing the dice on how the flames will turn out.

 

anyway, good luck with your challenge and sorry it's a bit of a Gilligan and not pure Ginger. I never agreed with that bull{censored} of preferring Mary Ann.

[ashasha]

One other thing that you can try is to submit a question to their sales staff. I didn't have time to call so I addressed them online. I got two seperate answers and the second one was made me much happier. Another advantage is that you can put links to the pictures in there instead of just sounding like you are whining about something they can't see.

[Monkeyman Joe]

yeah, gibson has a 1 year warranty for defects..

 

But I know that doesn't excuse m123's bull{censored}.

[RaVenCAD]

 

You gotta wonder how difficult it would be to aquire a job at the Gibson plant, these are high dollar guitars here, stuff like that should have been inspected. Unless Music123 deals in blemished stock.

 

 

Actually, when I was at GC a couple months ago, a comment that a MANAGER made to me regarding price matching was something along the lines of "yeah, we'll match al the big internet stopes.. MF, AMS, Sweetwater, whatever.. Oh, but no Music123, cuz they move a lot of factory seconds without stating it".. So take that with a grain of salt, but he flat out refused to match anything from M123..

[golias]

Actually, when I was at GC a couple months ago, a comment that a MANAGER made to me regarding price matching was something along the lines of "yeah, we'll match al the big internet stopes.. MF, AMS, Sweetwater, whatever.. Oh, but no Music123, cuz they move a lot of factory seconds without stating it".. So take that with a grain of salt, but he flat out refused to match anything from M123..

 

Music123 is owned by Guitar Center, isn't it?

[RaVenCAD]

That's what I thought too, or at least that both are owned by the same corporation.. I know MF and GC are both owned by the same company. The fact that a store manager said that M123 moves blems in secret tells me that M123 might be one to avoid. He could be full of crap, but he seemed pretty bright..

[golias]

 

That's what I thought too, or at least that both are owned by the same corporation.. I know MF and GC are both owned by the same company. The fact that a store manager said that M123 moves blems in secret tells me that M123 might be one to avoid. He could be full of crap, but he seemed pretty bright..

 

 

Then again, Guitar Center hangs some pretty disastrous guitars on their wall sometimes, too.

 

I think the pressure to keep slashing prices is resulting in some shady practices on the part of some retailers.

 

I've got a Music123 cart all loaded up and ready to go (pending their price-matching offer), but stories like this do make me hesitate a bit.

[RaVenCAD]

Well, when GC hangs them up they're new and shiny.. It's the 10,000 pawing kids a day that ruin the good stuff. I watched GC open and hang 2 beautiful white Les Paul studios on the wall one day while I was there. A few months later, I was GASSING for one badly. I went in, found 1 of those 2 still there and gave it a go.. Scratches, f'd up bridge, just YUCK.. Funny thing was, when I went to cut a deal on it, the guy looked in the computer and said "yeah, that guitar has actually gone up.. I can let it go for $1200.." Which was exactly $0.01 HIGHER than the marked tag that was put on when it was brand new and mint condition. I handed it back and left.

[tinwhisker]

That happens because Gibson screwed all the smaller dealers.

In the past, if something like that left the factory, it was caught by the retailer. Now it seems they sit in their original box until picked from the warehouse and shipped straight to the consumer. This one is a double screw...returned items being shipped as new . It should be a no brainer. Especially since they already have a scratch and dent/blem program set up. I hope it works out for you.

[Bradster]

As promised, pictures. In the sunlight it looks more like a typical cherryburst. The imperfections aren't nearly as noticeable in the sunlight either.

 

You'll have to excuse my feeble photography skills though. I don't quite have maltomario's eye.

 

 

[GAS Man]

Looks pretty sweet Bradster.

 

If it were me, I'd probably try kicking the {censored} of them for some more concessions on the deal and then keep it. It's a nice looking HC style finish without the overdone clownburst look.

 

I expected more ginger to its color.

 

I'd say congrats, but I know you're still struggling with the situation.

 

Give 'em hell.

[Bradster]

Thanks again, GAS Man.

 

After sleeping on it (and checking the UPS tracking), I've decided to wait until my STOD Cranberry arrives on Tuesday. I'll give it the once over and compare the two. If the Cranberry turns out more or less the same (cosmetics and feel) then I'll come away with a better understanding, I think, of what to expect out of Gibson for this particular make/model. And figure I'm just being a corksniffer.

 

Then I'll probably consider keeping it and taking another run at MF/123 about getting some more knocked off the price. (BTW, I don't think I mentioned but trog #2 did "offer" like 5%...begrudgingly). I'd hold out for a full 15%.

 

If, OTOH, the Cranberry blows me away and seems so much better I'll likely send this one back, along with a nasty-gram to 123.

 

If the Cranberry is worse I'll send them both back, call it quits, and take up the piano.

 

 

p.s. Funny you mentioned Sweetwater though. I went through the exact same scenario with them a few years ago with an Epi LP Elitist (Blem that was returned not once but twice!). Not only did my "sales engineer and best bud" refuse to send me a pre-paid return shipping label, he even had the cajones to deduct the initial "free" shipping from my eventual refund. After a 4-page nasty-gram, I did manage to finally obtain a full refund from their customer service. Haven't done business with them since though.

 

Nothing like biting the hand that feeds.

[Eddie]

And figure I'm just being a corksniffer. If the Cranberry is worse I'll send them both back, call it quits, and take up the piano.

 

Not a corksniffer. You're paying good money for the guitar. Quality should reflect the price. The MSRP

 

If the Cranberry is as bad and you really want a Gibson, call Saul at Centre City Music. And he's just a couple of hours away from you, here in San Diego.

 

If I ever decide that I want another Hamer I have no problem ordering it online. I know that the guitar will be superb.

With Gibson that's not always the case. I do hope that my Cranberry will be amazing. If not, I'll offer it on eBay starting the auction for what I paid, as I did with the Classic Antique Zebrawood. But I do hope I like it, and that you like yours as well.