Is Apple the New Microsoft?

[blue2blue]

Well as a member of the media, I must say that Apple is far less accommodating than Microsoft. When I've dealt with Microsoft in the past, they've always had a "So tell us what we can do better" attitude, quite humble really. There was one trade show where I just wanted to get a press release on Apple's new products and was bounced around from one person to another until they finally decided I (presumably) wasn't important enough -- the lady I was talking with excused herself, said she'd be back in a minute, and 15 minutes later I just said to hell with it. Then there was the time they sent copies of Logic out to reviewers that timed out after 30 days... And at one trade show, a product guy was demoing GarageBand, talking about how Apple had invented this great looping technology. I watched the demo for a while, and said "So what's the biggest difference between this and Acid DJ?" He didn't know Acid DJ, didn't even know Acid existed, didn't know the guy behind GarageBand was the same programmer who came up with Acid. As far as he was concerned, Apple had invented loops and time-stretching. I know this sounds like an Apple bash, I could just as easily talk about the beautiful industrial design of their products, their brillliant takeover of online distribution, and the many "firsts" they've contributed to the industry. And I'm writing this post on a Dual G5 But they're another ruthless corporate entity, just like most of 'em these days, and more power to 'em for coming back from the dead .

[bold added]

 

Well, Craig, let me make it clear that in my frequent bashing of pop-tech journos, I never consider you to be part of that crowd, though I know your beat overlaps with theirs to some extent.

 

But it is clear that Apple has somehow managed to keep most of those guys lapping Kool-Aid right out of their outstretched hands.

 

 

With regard to coming back from the dead -- that is going to be one of the corporate turnaround stories for a while. Right now, I think a lot of analyst/biz-writer types probably think that it's simply too unique a situation from which to draw conclusions but I think the lessons are not necessarily in the boxes a lot of biz writers tend to think within.

 

I think the resurgence of Apple in less than a decade is nothing short of breathtaking.

[Anderton]

Well, Craig, let me make it clear that in my frequent bashing of pop-tech journos, I never consider you to be part of that crowd.

Thank you for that! As I backed into journalism from music, I may have a bit of a different take on things. As I've said before, I'm a lousy writer, but a good editor so I can eventually make myself sound good

I've heard the horror stories about Jobs, but if you're going to run a company like Apple, you have to have a personality that doesn't suffer fools, takes risks, and is willing to rape and pillage if necessary. It's what's needed to survive these days. I've never met Jobs, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for his business acumen, and how he plays Apple customers like a violin. He "gets it," always has.

[Ani]

AppleSoft will be available on the shelves of Wally World in the next 5 years... Of course iMicro will have to "do it my way or the highway" so that the great Wal will consider scattering their basic supply of luxury goods throughout their monopolized super center stores.

[Geoff Grace]

If this is addressed to me, you have no need to assure me that you aren't a Microsoft apologist. Nonetheless, you're not the only one who calls 'em like you see 'em. And two people can disagree while using this approach. Being neutral doesn't always equate with being right, and that goes for me just as much as it does for you.

Best,

Geoff

[Billster]

Apple has like what 5% of the PC market, even after the re-vitalization? How are they the bully?

 

But what Apple has always done is drive the innovation. Design, integration, and ease of use are the calling card of Apple. Microsoft tries that and they end up with klugey, incompatible, and insecure products.

 

IOW, where Apple designs something to look good and work well, MS takes something that works and puts on an attractive veneer that messes with the function. Apple has integrated hardware and software. MS has stuff that causes conflicts. Apple has ease of use because of the first two issues (design and integration), MS ends up with "ease of use" in the veneer of design which opens up the famous security holes that allow all the viral stuff that messes up integration.

 

Apple charges a premium for what they do well. MS charges low entry fee, but then charges again and again (and again) for fixing what should have worked right in the first place.

[Dean Roddey]

Because they aren't talking about the PC market, they are talking about the media market.

As to your other points, Apple is what MS is more often accused of being, a closed platform. Windows is far more open in comparison, hence many vendors of hardware, hence much lower price, and hence infinitely larger R&D on the Windows platform spread out among the thousands of companies that build products for it. That's what killed Apple. They refused to open up their platform, so they were stuck doing all the work and they were just crushed, not by MS, but by the entire Wintel ecosphere where outspent Apple many, many times over.

And clearly Apple picked the wrong strategy, since they lost. A lot of that loss of course is attributable to stupidity on their part. But a big part of that stupidity is that they knew perfectly well what was happening and didn't fix the problem. Bill Gates told them very early on that they needed to do this, and he was their biggest software developer and MS made a huge chunk of their money off of Apple at one point there. But Apple was arrogant and thought that no one would ever catch up to them, and so they stayed put and they stagnated, and the rest of the world caught up to them and suddenly they couldn't justify the huge premiums anymore.

[alphajerk]

But what Apple has always done is drive the innovation. Design, integration, and ease of use are the calling card of Apple. Microsoft tries that and they end up with klugey, incompatible, and insecure products..

 

 

give me a {censored}ing break. it was time for me to upgrade my mac... new ones came with pcie slots... no company at the time MADE soundcards for pcie. so i was looking at FW instead to hold me over.... then they only want to give me 3 slots and cpus getting bigger ever 6 months ending up with quads currently [and new technology for more hardware upgrades] i could have upgraded the same PC 3 times now for minimal cost/risk. and OSX was STILL limping along [nevermind intel was on its way]... so from OS9>carbonized OSX>universal/godforbid rosetta>intel. how many rewrites did software companies have to go through and still for the time being have to deal with backwards micorprocessor technology because they know they cant {censored} those users YET... make me upgrade and throw another machine into the dump because its now worthless.

 

and macs are no more secure. there are just less threats against them because they are only 5%. what would be the point of that? Mac users wouldnt know how to fix their machine anyway... and apple wouldnt let them, just charge them retarded rates to "fix" it. some genius there.

 

 

{censored} it, just repair permissions/

[Alndln2]

Apple is too busy packing i{censored} into everything, i wouldnt call that luxury goods...

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

of course for every story, there is another story

be sure to hear all sides before jumping to conclusions.

http://bynkii.livejournal.com/89522.html
http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13509_1-9774121-20.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheMacalope:AnAppleblog

[blue2blue]

Blue , I'm surprised -- I should think that by now you'd know better than to lump me in with Apple apologists. I never said Apple's proprietary practices weren't an intrusive hobbling, I said that Elgan overstated their impact by concluding that "Apple has an iPod customer for life" as a result. Even if it were impossible to convert those files, his conclusion would be over the top. After all, how many of us who used to buy LPs became an LP customer for life? Most of us have moved on to other media formats, and it's most likely this trend will continue for those who have invested in current technologies. But is it really such a stretch to think that those of the public who have already embraced the cassette and MP3 formats would be bothered by the sound of an iTunes file converted to an MP3 file? I really doubt the quality would trouble most people who bought an MP3 player. And yes they could burn a cassette, and they probably would be happy with the fidelity of that recording too -- although they probably wouldn't care for the portability of cassettes compared to MP3 files. I don't think you have to be an Apple partisan to conclude that high fidelity is not of crucial importance to most consumers. If it were, then the MP3 format would never have undermined CD sales; and newer high fidelity formats that sound better than CD would now dominate the marketplace. If this is addressed to me, you have no need to assure me that you aren't a Microsoft apologist. Nonetheless, you're not the only one who calls 'em like you see 'em. And two people can disagree while using this approach. Being neutral doesn't always equate with being right, and that goes for me just as much as it does for you. Best, Geoff

 

On the first, good points. And I didn't really mean to lump you in with anybody... I guess I was lashing out at the burn-and-rip rationale and there was some splatter effect on the messenger when I went after the message. Sorry about that. I know you're a complex and iconoclastic guy.

 

On the quality thing, yeah, I hear you.

 

And I didn't mean to suggest that an mp3 rip of a 128 kpbs AAC would necessarily be as bad as a cassette, sonically, rather that I just can't feel that burn-and-rip is much of an answer to complaints that Apple has, to a significant degree, locked their customers to their software and hardware.

 

My citation of the cassette was as much about the rigamarole factor -- to point out that you have to go through yet another [destructive] data/format transcription to get there involving two discrete processes. It's not an insurmountable barrier -- but I wouldn't want to have to burn-and-rip a couple hundred albums worth of stuff, either.

 

 

On the second, I guess I was just citing whatever credentials I may have as being an equal opportunity critic of the industry. I certainly agree with everything you say, there; I'd even consider it sort of an a priori when using the I-call-'em-like-I-see-'em bit.

[philbo]

But see, this is the thing that bothers me. CDs, when they came out around 81 cost what? I didn't buy a lot of them back then, but $15 or some such thing? If they'd just kept up with inflation, they'd be probably $30 now, but instead they really haven't changed much and most stuff can be had on online stores for probably $12'ish bucks or so. So the record industry has in real terms dropped the price by half for more, while other industries have raised their prices. But the record industry get's beat up all the time for price gouging.

 

 

The big difference: People don't buy CDs to own a plastic disk in a plastic box. They buy music to listen to.

 

And, much like Saturday Night Live, every year since the '80s the content has become less and less entertaining. The value simply isn't there - - they've made their product worthless by innundating their markets with the musical equivalent of liquid manure. Would you want to dig through a manure pit to find a diamond? Not me!

 

This, IMHO, is the reason that people quit buying huge quantities of CDs even before Itunes came along. And it's the reason that 33% of the music sold to consumers last year was never even printed onto a CD!

 

CDs are dead, long live CDs!

[UstadKhanAli]

This won't concern most people...

But a huge percentage of the CDs I buy are field recordings, etc. of international music. Think Ocora, Smithsonian-Folkways, etc. It'd be a shame if these disappeared because:
- they have extensive liner notes
- they're typically not found on iTunes, etc.

[UstadKhanAli]

Other things that might not be as good for iTunes are long jazz and classical songs, experimental music, and other things that the majority of music listeners don't listen to, but is nevertheless important.

[Dean Roddey]

The big difference: People don't buy CDs to own a plastic disk in a plastic box. They buy music to listen to. And, much like Saturday Night Live, every year since the '80s the content has become less and less entertaining. The value simply isn't there - - they've made their product worthless by innundating their markets with the musical equivalent of liquid manure. Would you want to dig through a manure pit to find a diamond? Not me!

 

 

This is a bogus argument, often made. Lots of people, as they grow older, comes to believe that new music is crap pretty much. Your parents thought the same thing, and your kids will probably think the same thing. But it's bogus. For the market that the music is primarily intended (the major music buying demographic of young poeple), the music is just fine, thanks. Else, they wouldn't spend so much time stealing so much of it.

 

Some of us keep up with what's happening and appreciate new music despite being 40 or older. There's plenty of good stuff out there now.

[Jeff da Weasel]

I don't know what this thread is about, but I'm buying a new 15.4" Duo 2.4GHz MacBook Pro tonight.

 

Wheeeeee!

[Jeff da Weasel]

Mac users wouldnt know how to fix their machine anyway...

I'd respond, but as a Mac user, I am obviously too stupid to retaliate to the genius of Alpha. Jerk.

[UstadKhanAli]

Yup, yup, yup, all Mac users don't know how to fix their machines.

 

Yup, yup, yup, all PC users know how to fix their machines.

 

All of them. Every single one.

 

(I just KNOW someone's going to quote this out of context and make it look like I've said this in all seriousness...)

[Jeff da Weasel]

You're Asian. Since we're stereotyping, you must know a lot more than me about fixing computers. Oh, wait! EVERYONE knows more than me. I have a Mac. Never mind.

 

Oh, how do it turn this thing off, anyway? Better call Apple Care!

[UstadKhanAli]

Asian? ASIAN?

Oh, hot damn, you're right!!!! So I am!!!

And with my new-found computer skills, I can help you...oh, wait. I have a Mac too.

[Geoff Grace]

data/format transcription to get there involving two discrete processes. It's not an insurmountable barrier -- but I wouldn't want to have to burn-and-rip a couple hundred albums worth of stuff, either. On the second, I guess I was just citing whatever credentials I may have as being an equal opportunity critic of the industry. I certainly agree with everything you say, there; I'd even consider it sort of an a priori when using the I-call-'em-like-I-see-'em bit.

 

 

Now that's the reasonable approach I wish Elgan had taken; but then, sadly, it probably wouldn't have garnered as much attention. Nonetheless, you make your point in an irrefutable way by not only stating the problem, but also the honest extent to which it is a problem. Personally, I greatly prefer this way of communicating over the increasingly common provocative style of journalism; and I admit that I let Elgan's overstatements get under my skin a little when I first posted. I reacted a little bluntly and sarcastically; and I'm sorry for that.

 

I confess that it's not just his approach, but the issues he's bringing up that push my buttons. Copy protection and the devaluing of music in the marketplace are probably the most emotional issues for me that we discuss in these forums. I'm distressed that the record industry is using threats instead of incentives to stop piracy, and I'm distressed that they've let piracy, Wal-Mart, and yes, Apple dictate lower prices that undermine the monetary value of music.

 

But that's perhaps best left for another thread.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

And yes they could burn a cassette

Ha -- I wrote "burn" a cassette! Now there's a Freudian slip!

I never did like those @#$% things!

Best,

Geoff

[zeronyne]

I agree with what everyone has said here...the assertions of Apple's non-innovations backed up with negative anecdotes, the knee-jerk technological racism, and even the carefully considered, well-formed opinions.

But I'm still trying to figure out why this was even an article in the first place. A large corporation is or isn't as much of a bully as another, larger corporation? Stop the presses!!

For every generalization in this thread, I could counter with another.

The corporate philosophies of Apple and Microsoft could hardly be more different, so their attitudes towards the public, including journalists, would probably be quite disparate.

Apple may not have had a 1.000 batting average, and much of their perceived innovation may have been on the backs of acquisitions and marketing, but they definitely connect solidly with a major part of their consumer base, which shockingly is not all fanboyz. But yes, they've had the Performa series, the MacTV, their video game system, and a bunch of other crap.

Microsoft, any way you slice it, IS the 900 lbs gorilla, and it would be odd (and from a shareholder's standpoint, unethical) for them not to act like it. With an installed base of 93% of PC users, how could there NOT be accusations of intimidation, unfair business practices, and monopolistic aims? But I'll tell you from MY anecdotal experiences, it would be hard to innovate more than Microsoft is doing now without alienating a good portion of Windows users. And they are no slouches in the UI department, either. As a person who uses GoLive and Dreamweaver at least 4-6 hours per day, I can tell you that MS's new Expression web is definitely a contender.

[techristian]

 

The only downside is that he works out every day at the gym, where cardio machines face TVs that broadcast sound over FM radio. Six months later, when his iPod is stolen, he goes to buy another player -- this time, he hopes, with an FM radio in it. Several competitors offer this feature, but not iPods. He's about to choose a new player with an FM radio when it hits him: None of his files -- now totaling 300 songs and 50 movies -- will play on the new player. He bought and paid for all this content, but it only works with iPods and iTunes.

 

 

Yes I have heard of this and it is a big problem, but did you know that you could also put FREE mp3s on an iPOD ? I know a few people who have done this. Too bad for Apple when EVERYONE discovers you can put free mp3 music on an iPOD, but it serves them right for not figuring out a way to transfer PAID music to other formats from an iPod. Not good for the performing artists either.

 

Dan

[alphajerk]

tahts all i put on my wifes ipod. free mp3 rips of stuff we own.