Members John Sayers Posted January 21, 2008 Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yesterday I mixed a track for a friend and he came around to get a hard copy. I burnt him a data disc with the .wav file and also a playable CD. Knowing how new mixes get played over and over I put the track on the playable CD 4 times so they wouldn't have to constantly recue the track. Around 10pm I received a call from the artist. He was with the engineer at the studio and they wanted to let me know that they objectively thought the 4th mix was the best followed by the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted January 21, 2008 Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yet another example of people hearing what they want to hear. I do it all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on the wrong track's EQ and sat there for like 20 minutes tweaking EQ curves and convincing myself that it was getting better when I was tweaking another track's EQ. The mind affects what we hear so much and most people really don't appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted January 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 The mind affects what we hear so much and most people really don't appreciate that very true Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted January 21, 2008 Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Another of what may possibly be an urban legend, but I have heard that Lee Sklar has 'producer buttons' installed on all his basses. They do nothing. But apparently, producers usually love the second setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted January 22, 2008 Members Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yet another example of people hearing what they want to hear. I do it all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on the wrong track's EQ and sat there for like 20 minutes tweaking EQ curves and convincing myself that it was getting better when I was tweaking another track's EQ. The mind affects what we hear so much and most people really don't appreciate that. This happened to me two days ago, I lowered a clip by 1.5 db, rewound, replayed and thought to myself - that sounds perfect. Then I realized I was changing the volume on a clip that was muted and nothing had changed. In my defense, it was late and I was mixing on headphones, still, the ears hear what the mind tells it to, it's definitely interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2008 I finished an album, delivered it... and secretly hated everything I'd done on it. My mixes sucked so bad and yet I'd worked so hard on them. The drum recording was horrible to start with. The whole 3 month project was an uphill battle. A couple of days ago I ran into the guitarist and humbly murmured a sort of awkward apology... he punched my arm and asked if I was crazy. I hadn't listened to it once since delivering it. He popped into his car CD player and... It was absolutely rockin'. Sometimes that forest does get in the way of the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Another of what may possibly be an urban legend, but I have heard that Lee Sklar has 'producer buttons' installed on all his basses. They do nothing. But apparently, producers usually love the second setting. Old producer trick: When the drummer asks for their drums to be louder in the mix, or the guitarist asks for the vocals to be turned down or whatever, and it's totally outlandish and unreasonable (because they've been sitting at the back of the CR for the last five hours, laughing and talking and NOT listening, so they have no idea of how it sounds anyway ), reach over to the board and turn a knob on an unused channel, turn around and politely ask "is that better?" Invariably, or at least nine times out of ten, they'll nod and say "yeah - much better". Not that *I* would ever do such a thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 22, 2008 Members Share Posted January 22, 2008 Old producer trick: When the drummer asks for their drums to be louder in the mix, or the guitarist asks for the vocals to be turned down or whatever, and it's totally outlandish and unreasonable (because they've been sitting at the back of the CR for the last five hours, laughing and talking and NOT listening, so they have no idea of how it sounds anyway ), reach over to the board and turn a knob on an unused channel, turn around and politely ask "is that better?" Invariably, or at least nine times out of ten, they'll nod and say "yeah - much better". Not that *I* would ever do such a thing... There have actually been long discussions of the ethics of doing just that over at Gearslutz. (They ran out of boutique preamps to argue about that day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Well, I was joking... but OTOH, if they want to comment about the mix, then they da%^med better have been paying enough attention to at least hear it before asking for their part to be turned up. I'm a pretty patient guy in the studio, and I'm not one to normally / automatically say "no" without being willing to try their suggestion first. And if someone wants more of something in the cans, I'm happy to provide it. But "fader wars" and inattentive, yet insistent and demanding players can start to get old after the first couple of decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2008 I sometimes institute the rule... "You're allowed to ask for level changes on anything except your own instrument." It works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kendrix Posted January 22, 2008 Members Share Posted January 22, 2008 It seems to me that there is NO SUCH THING as being objective about a mix.Its all about your emotional reaction to it. Perception is reality. Thats not objective at all. Its strange how you can get emotionally attached to some elements of a given mix and, even when improving the thing, you miss some of what was left behind with the changes. Its one thing if a mix totally sucks or there is some obvious glitch.However, if you are in the ballpark its all just a matter of taste. Sometimes it comes down to very subtle nuances. One persons favorite subtle nuance is anothers " I dont know what you are talking about". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 I find that my perception of my own mixes is very different when someone else is in the room listening with me. I think it is more objective with another listener present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Oddly, you can almost listen to your mix through someone else's ears. Or at least, how you think they'll likely respond to it. Really fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I sometimes institute the rule... "You're allowed to ask for level changes on anything except your own instrument." It works great. Great idea! John (and others), if you have a minute, I'd appreciate it if you could check out this thread. I think there's no easy / cheap answer that will satisfy the poster, but I don't think he believes me, and who knows? Maybe there's something you could suggest that I don't know about... Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 When the drummer asks for their drums to be louder in the mix, or the guitarist asks for the vocals to be turned down or whatever, and it's totally outlandish and unreasonable (because they've been sitting at the back of the CR for the last five hours, laughing and talking and NOT listening, so they have no idea of how it sounds anyway ), reach over to the board and turn a knob on an unused channel, turn around and politely ask "is that better?" Invariably, or at least nine times out of ten, they'll nod and say "yeah - much better". I did that accidentally on my own stuff during my band's most recent session. I wasn't happy with the sound of my guitar - it had too much of the room in it. My co-engineer tried compressing the crap out of it, which helped a bit but I still wasn't thrilled. So I switched to a different mic placement, moved some baffles closer to the amp, etc. Went back to the control room and listened, and I was getting kind of impatient because everything else sounded great and we wanted to get tracking, already. So I listened back a little and said, "Yeah, that's much better," and headed back for the tracking room. Whereupon my bandmates said, "Uh, Lee... that was the previous take." And they were right - I was still listening to the old sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Your mind was elsewhere - thinking about getting back and playing. Completely understandable IMO, and probably a good example of why recording yourself is a difficult proposition, no matter how good of an engineer you are (and Lee's outstanding!), because the two tasks largely use different parts of the brain, and switching between them constantly is hard to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Your mind was elsewhere - thinking about getting back and playing. Completely understandable IMO, and probably a good example of why recording yourself is a difficult proposition, no matter how good of an engineer you are (and Lee's outstanding!), because the two tasks largely use different parts of the brain, and switching between them constantly is hard to do... Yeah, well that was exactly why I was (mostly) having someone else engineer. I wanted to focus on playing, and I guess I did that a little too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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