Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Actually, and to the point of air-moving capability, the difference is 44% in surface area. Yep, you go by cone area, not diameter. Pi x radius squared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Not a very fair observance. You are talking about one of the biggest POS's ever created for a guitar speaker, as far as the stock 10" Pignose is concerned, and in a super, super small open-back enclosure vs a decent sized, probably closed-back cab with the dual 12s? I never thought the Pignose was as bad as other people said. Especially when the speaker was broken in it was not a POS like you and a few others I have read about on here think it is. I have many cabinets a Stealth 12 a One 8 and tried a few other amps with 1x12s just using the speaker in open and closed back. The stock Pignose while thin, was able to hang with the rest. You are right though the closed back Crate 2x12 and the open back 1x12 Pignose is a night and day difference as far as bass response goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hardly a fact. Are you thinking 2-dimensions, or what. You apparently aren't even considering part of what creates low frequencies. One would be the size of the area of the cone that pushes the air, pretty obvious. You evidently aren't even considering how far you are pushing that amount of air. That's obviously just as large of a part to the equation. So a 10" with an Xmax or say 6mm is certainly capable of moving more air than a 12" with an Xmax of 3mm. Not sure what Xmax is/means, but Merry Xmax to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 I never thought the Pignose was as bad as other people said. Especially when the speaker was broken in it was not a POS like you and a few others I have read about on here think it is. I have many cabinets a Stealth 12 a One 8 and tried a few other amps with 1x12s just using the speaker in open and closed back. The stock Pignose while thin, was able to hang with the rest. You are right though the closed back Crate 2x12 and the open back 1x12 Pignose is a night and day difference as far as bass response goes. I've had a G40V for maybe 10 years or so. I stand behind my assessment of the stock driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Not sure what Xmax is/means, but Merry Xmax to you Same to you! Xmax is the maximum travel capability of the VC/cone assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Same to you! Xmax is the maximum travel capability of the VC/cone assembly. Do speaker manufacturers publish that specification for all speakers? Did you try any mods with the Pignose? Do you not like it with a speaker swap? If I didn't own 3 I'd buy yours if you weren't happy with it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Do speaker manufacturers publish that specification for all speakers? Did you try any mods with the Pignose? Do you not like it with a speaker swap? If I didn't own 3 I'd buy yours if you weren't happy with it. lol Most reputable companies have their main parameters listed to see. Never did any mods. Whenever I used it live I ran it through a Sovtek vertical 2x12 slant cab loaded with Emi GB12s. Helped a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Yep, you go by cone area, not diameter. Pi x radius squared. However, the wavelength (pitch) efficiency is possibly more closely related to diameter. I seem to remember something about speakers being additive in that regard (which is why a 4-pack of 10's gives great bass punch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EllenGtrGrl Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 10' speakers with me, are a love/hate relationship. It's easier to carry a 2x10" combo amp or speaker cab, than a 2x12" combo or speaker cab, due to the lighter weight of the speakers. The '62 Fender Tremolux w/matching 2x10" cab I had way back in 1990, sounded OK, but I found the Vox AC15TB, and Marshall JMT30, combos I had (both with 2x10" speaker configurations) to sound too boxy (albeit not as much as a combo with a single 12 in it), when run at high volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcindc Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 The old celestion G10-35L is a good 10"er, Just put one of those in a Pignose G40V. You are correct, Sir! To the OP, you'll be ok with a 10. I prefer 12s but have several amps with 10s now. And your situation is not very demanding. Save the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hardly a fact. Are you thinking 2-dimensions, or what. You apparently aren't even considering part of what creates low frequencies. One would be the size of the area of the cone that pushes the air, pretty obvious. You evidently aren't even considering how far you are pushing that amount of air. That's obviously just as large of a part to the equation. So a 10" with an Xmax or say 6mm is certainly capable of moving more air than a 12" with an Xmax of 3mm. This rings true with my real world experience shopping for home theater subwoofers years ago. Many of them used 12", 15" and even 18" drivers. But there was one manufacturer that had a small subwoofer that was very powerful, and hit lower frequencies than any of the large ones....it used a single 10" driver with a very long throw distance to the cone. Bottom line, that long trow 10" drive moved more air than any of the larger, short throw drivers. You could actually feel the bass in your chest. It was not a particularly tight bass sound, probably due to the long throw, but it certainly hit very low frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted December 5, 2008 Moderators Share Posted December 5, 2008 Quality thread. It's sorta like old Cognac or Armagnac and stars.This one would have Picker and Bonehead on the bottle showing the contents are special:thu: It's what separates us from other sites and indeed other forums on this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Quality thread. It's sorta like old Cognac or Armagnac and stars. This one would have Picker and Bonehead on the bottle showing the contents are special:thu: It's what separates us from other sites and indeed other forums on this site What? They don't do this on the Amps forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hubert Stumblin Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 I will say that I do have and use a Raezer's Edge "One 8" cabinet. Granted it is ported, but it does have a nice bass response for a 8" speaker. Again it is a full range speaker, not a typical guitar speaker it is a Eminence Alpha 8A. The ported cab has a lot to do with it as well. Porting and folded baffles will accentuate bass. Or even help create a "peak" or "node" at certain frequencies. So, you can use 10" speakers for their "punch" but also use the above design features to pull up a little more bottom out of 'em. Folded baffle is what makes the Bose Wave radio sound the way it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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