Members fenderguitar Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 Every guitar amp I've owned has been a combo with a 12 inch speaker. Lately I've been eyeing a few that have 10 inch speakers (the new Vox Valvetronix thats coming out and the Ibanez MIMX). The reason I'm thinking of going this route is that its far cheaper (amp with 10 inch speaker sells for $199 while its 12 inch big brother sells for $350, quite a difference) and for the portability and light weight. I do not play in a gigging band so this would strictly be for basement use, occasional church use, and the occasional jam session with a full drum kit. The questions I have are: Is there a big difference in tone between the 10 and 12 and will the 10 be enough to cut it with a drummer? Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Finch88 Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 I've never played an amp with a single 10" speaker, and it doesn't sound very fun to me either. I dunno ... they're one trick ponies to me. In my opinion, 10" speakers just sound way too thin for anything outside blues or country. 12" speakers are much more versatile. Though I have heard that 10" is favored for recording, so that might be something to consider. Either way, you will cut as long as you got a decent wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 A pair or 4-pack of 10" speakers can be very sweet, and the multiple gives a nice bass punch that is lacking in a single speaker. For a single, I'd do the 12". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zbasstringer Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 yea, IMO ten inch speakers have more punch and bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 I was happy playing a 10" in my Pignose for months before I added a Crate 2x12 cab. Was a little thin but it was useable for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 yea, IMO ten inch speakers have more punch and bass. On which planet? 10" speaker is a smaller speaker in every dimension so the bass response suffers. Just a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 12" speakers have more bottom and push more air and sound the same through a preformance . 10" seem to fatigue and are inefficient when dealling with a drummer or louder situations. The 10" speaker in a PR is the main reason most people prefer DR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 On which planet? 10" speaker is a smaller speaker in every dimension so the bass response suffers. Just a fact. Your fact is wrong. In general, the low end on a 10" speakers is much tighter and has more punch, so the bass is much more prominent and stands out better. A 10" has more of a scooped feel, lots of high-end timber and punchy lows, not much midrange. 12" (also, in general) have a lot more midrange, which people generally prefer for rock; their highs are mixed, the best roll off early, they rest can be harsh be sharp; but at the low end, they have a big sound, but its too loose and undefined, so it gets lost in the mix really easy. This is why 10" speakers are far more popular than 12" speakers for Bass amps, something is needed to make sure that sound stays tight and focused and a 10" (and 15", which also is weak on midrange) is perfect for the job. 12" just get boomy for Bass guitar. For guitar, I like the thick midrange sound and I'm not worried about the low end, because there is a Bass to take up the slack. Same reason like the fat, loose midrange tone of a Alder body on a Fender instead of the tight, focused, scooped-mid tone of a Ash body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yer all just pissin in the wind until you've tried a 15".. You can feel the thump of those badboys from 20 feet away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wmcjhi Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 Your fact is wrong. In general, the low end on a 10" speakers is much tighter and has more punch, so the bass is much more prominent and stands out better. A 10" has more of a scooped feel, lots of high-end timber and punchy lows, not much midrange. 12" (also, in general) have a lot more midrange, which people generally prefer for rock; their highs are mixed, the best roll off early, they rest can be harsh be sharp; but at the low end, they have a big sound, but its too loose and undefined, so it gets lost in the mix really easy.This is why 10" speakers are far more popular than 12" speakers for Bass amps, something is needed to make sure that sound stays tight and focused and a 10" (and 15", which also is weak on midrange) is perfect for the job. 12" just get boomy for Bass guitar.For guitar, I like the thick midrange sound and I'm not worried about the low end, because there is a Bass to take up the slack. Same reason like the fat, loose midrange tone of a Alder body on a Fender instead of the tight, focused, scooped-mid tone of a Ash body. 12" speakers get lower, all else equal. Fact. 10s are generally tighter, true. I've had a couple 2x12 and a 4x10. The 4x10 did not get anywhere near as low and I found it disappointing for palm mutes. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 On which planet? 10" speaker is a smaller speaker in every dimension so the bass response suffers. Just a fact. You know 10s are more popular for bass guitar than 12s, right? Even some subs have 10s. Depends on the speaker design. I know in general, 12s will do better in the bass department, but some of Fender's fattest sounding amps have 10s in them - Bassman anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 10s will generally be tighter, but tend to lack the warm, fat bass tone that a 12" brings. They are also often less efficient than 12" speakers for sheer volume, although certain eminence 10"ers are very efficient too. I quite like 10" speakers for the low weight and easy portability they offer, and have a number of amps running 1X10". The Pignose G40 has a Hartke ali cone bass speaker in it, and can really hoof it out - very tight and punchy and easliy capable of keeping up with a drummer. Contrast that with a Jensen P10R in another amp, and that runs out of volume very early, breaking up in an unpleasant way. The old celestion G10-35L is a good 10"er, but the vintage 10-40 is not, with a very obvious frequency spike. Fave speaker for warm fatness is either a 70s 20W G12M or a modern G12H. The G12H has a big, tight bass, while the M is very smooth, soft and rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted December 4, 2008 Members Share Posted December 4, 2008 12" speakers get lower, all else equal. Fact. 10s are generally tighter, true. I've had a couple 2x12 and a 4x10. The 4x10 did not get anywhere near as low and I found it disappointing for palm mutes. YMMV. A lot of that depends on how you want to "sit in the mix." It may be lower, but it matters little if the guitarist and bassist are sanding on each others part of the spectrum. In the studio, an engineer is going to EQ all the low-end out of a guitar track anyway. Isolated guitar tracks for recordings seem particularly thin and bright until they are mix into the rest of the band. However, obviously much of heavier modern music is about a wall of tone but pounds at the audience, with less defined bandwidths for lead guitar, rhythm guitar and bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 You know 10s are more popular for bass guitar than 12s, right? Even some subs have 10s. Depends on the speaker design. I know in general, 12s will do better in the bass department, but some of Fender's fattest sounding amps have 10s in them - Bassman anyone? I will agree that 10" bass speakers can put out some serious low end. In fact that or a full range speaker like a Eminence Alpha 10A was what I was considering to beef up my Pignose. Comparing guitar speakers between a 10" and 12" the 12" will have a lower frequency range "generally", I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule as noted already, but generally a 10" will not have the omph or low end a 12" can deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 I will say that I do have and use a Raezer's Edge "One 8" cabinet. Granted it is ported, but it does have a nice bass response for a 8" speaker. Again it is a full range speaker, not a typical guitar speaker it is a Eminence Alpha 8A. The ported cab has a lot to do with it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister natural Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 what he said : 12" sounds great by itself - nice & round10" sounds great sitting in a recording or within a band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Got me the strangest woman believe me this trick's no cinch but I really get her going when I whip out my big 10 inch Record of a band that plays the blues well a band that plays its blues she just love my big 10 inch record of her favorite blues Last night I tried to tease her I gave my love a little pinch she said now stop that jivin' now whip out your big 10 inch Record of a band that plays those blues well a band that plays the blues she just loves my big 10 inch record of her favorite blues I, I, I cover her with kisses and when we're in a lover's clinch she gets all excited when she begs for my big 10 inch Record of a band that plays those blues well a band that plays the blues she just love my big 10 inch record of her favorite blues My girl don't go for smokin' and liquor just make her flinch seems she don't go for nothin' 'cept for my big 10 inch Record of a band that plays the blues band that play the blues she just love my big 10 inch record of her favorite blues.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 This is why 10" speakers are far more popular than 12" speakers for Bass amps, something is needed to make sure that sound stays tight and focused and a 10" (and 15", which also is weak on midrange) is perfect for the job. 12" just get boomy for Bass guitar. 10" speakers are more popular with bass players because they have more high end. The secret to a great bass sound is trebles. It's also why bass guitars usually have single coils. The high end gives the notes definition and punch so they stand out in the mix. It's also why basses tend to have maple in them more. 12" speakers have a fuller range but don't stand out in a complicated mix of many instruments. They also are a little less bright for lead guitar work. A 12" combo might be better for a 3 piece band where the guitar isn't fighting to be heard in the mix and instead needs to fill in space. It's just a single ingredient in the mix but to say that a 10" speaker offers up more bass than a 12" (all else being equal) is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brewski Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 The difference between a 10" and 12" speaker is 2" :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wmcjhi Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 A lot of that depends on how you want to "sit in the mix." It may be lower, but it matters little if the guitarist and bassist are sanding on each others part of the spectrum. Agree 100%, I was just trying to make sure everyone was clear about the capabilities of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 10" speakers are more popular with bass players because they have more high end. The secret to a great bass sound is trebles. It's also why bass guitars usually have single coils. The high end gives the notes definition and punch so they stand out in the mix. It's also why basses tend to have maple in them more.12" speakers have a fuller range but don't stand out in a complicated mix of many instruments. They also are a little less bright for lead guitar work. A 12" combo might be better for a 3 piece band where the guitar isn't fighting to be heard in the mix and instead needs to fill in space.It's just a single ingredient in the mix but to say that a 10" speaker offers up more bass than a 12" (all else being equal) is wrong.Its also wrong to generalize in the other direction as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 I was happy playing a 10" in my Pignose for months before I added a Crate 2x12 cab. Was a little thin but it was useable for the most part.Not a very fair observance. You are talking about one of the biggest POS's ever created for a guitar speaker, as far as the stock 10" Pignose is concerned, and in a super, super small open-back enclosure vs a decent sized, probably closed-back cab with the dual 12s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 On which planet? 10" speaker is a smaller speaker in every dimension so the bass response suffers. Just a fact. Hardly a fact. Are you thinking 2-dimensions, or what. You apparently aren't even considering part of what creates low frequencies. One would be the size of the area of the cone that pushes the air, pretty obvious. You evidently aren't even considering how far you are pushing that amount of air. That's obviously just as large of a part to the equation. So a 10" with an Xmax or say 6mm is certainly capable of moving more air than a 12" with an Xmax of 3mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 Yer all just pissin in the wind until you've tried a 15".. You can feel the thump of those badboys from 20 feet away.No thanks, I've heard and used countless 15" guitar speakers. Used to own a pair of D130s. Much prefer to sit properly in the mix, not muddy it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted December 5, 2008 Members Share Posted December 5, 2008 The difference between a 10" and 12" speaker is 2" :poke: Actually, and to the point of air-moving capability, the difference is 44% in surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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