Members Music Calgary Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Too bad, Pandora is the best of the best of the best -- EVER: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503367.html?hpid=topnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Quote: "Even more galling to webcasters is the fact that they pay more for playing a song than traditional or satellite radio, a result of patchwork regulation created as each technology emerged. "Traditional radio pays nothing in performance royalties, though SoundExchange is pressing to change that. Satellite radio pays 6 or 7 percent of revenue. And then there are webcasters, which pay per song, per listener. Using listener figures from Arbitron for XM Satellite Radio, it is possible to estimate that the company will pay about 1.6 cents per hour per listener when the new rates are fully adapted in 2010. By contrast, Web radio outlets will pay 2.91 cents per hour per listener." The stupidity of killing internet radio makes no sense to us, because we're artists and musicians. We don't expect internet radio to pay more royalties than other media. Fair is fair. But it sure makes a bunch of sense to terrestrial radio stations, doesn't it? They syndicate some moron like Laura Schlesinger over 4 billion radio stations, which of course is far better than having locally-generated content, right? And XM/Sirius has to pay, what, $17million bucks because they DARED to have terrestrial coverage? This is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted August 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 This is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to begin. Glad to hear someone cares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I hate to say "I told you so," but.... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1564094&highlight=%26quot%3BInternet+Radio I told you so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 As a musician, I sure as hell would like to have 0.001% of a million dollars than 100% of zero dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 That is a real drag. If the record companies weren't such utter idiots they would figure out a way to make Pandora's amazing historic and potential growth really work for them. Instead, they are moving to crush what they don't understand. Once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 That is a real drag. If the record companies weren't such utter idiots they would figure out a way to make Pandora's amazing historic and potential growth really work for them. Instead, they are moving to crush what they don't understand. Once again. I'm not sure the culprits are record companies this time: Think "Clear Channel" and their ilk. Wouldn't it be GREAT if I had zillions of dollars and could bribe the government to get rid of all musician-oriented forums other than SSS? Yeah! That would make me look pretty good, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted August 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 As a musician, I sure as hell would like to have 0.001% of a million dollars than 100% of zero dollars Bingo. And yet we feed the machine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't feed the machine any more. After releasing on major labels for 20 years, I said to hell with it despite having a reasonable degree of "success." I'm now working with smaller labels that pay their bills, pay their artists, and are doing very well, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I'm not sure the culprits are record companies this time: Think "Clear Channel" and their ilk. That's what I was thinking too. Fair is fair. The playing field should be level; or if not, the differences should favor developing technologies over established ones. Pandora is a great, innovative concept that's remarkably well executed. I'd hate to see it go. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Wouldn't it be GREAT if I had zillions of dollars and could bribe the government to get rid of all musician-oriented forums other than SSS? Yeah! That would make me look pretty good, eh? CORRECTION: I of course didn't mean "bribe." I meant "hire lobbyists to help the government understand my position." I sincerely apologize for this misstatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 The playing field should be level; or if not, the differences should favor developing technologies over established ones. So now you're a communist, eh Geoff? What next - making sure people don't die in the streets because they don't have enough money for health insurance? You're traveling down a slippery slope, my friend... Just remember: All animals are equal. It's just that some are more equal than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted August 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't feed the machine any more. After releasing on major labels for 20 years, I said to hell with it despite having a reasonable degree of "success." I'm now working with smaller labels that pay their bills, pay their artists, and are doing very well, thank you. Yeah right. Sorry, I'm not into shades of grey Craig. I respect you but I call BS on the claim you haven't been a machine feeder and/or continue to work in scenarios where the industry has it's hand. Not buying that for one second. And to be fair to your current view, 20 years as a dedicated mechanic in the belly of the machine ain't chicken feed. You can't just step out of your skin and call shenanigans. That said, don't take that as an attack. Just don't act holy please. You helped make the boat, we all did... We've all fed the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Read what I said. I didn't say I never fed the machine. I said I don't feed it any more. But... I worked against the RIAA position on DAT in the 80s, and even got hate mail from Joe Smith at Capitol Records because of it. I called out Jason Berman (of the RIAA) in print on his unbelievably racist comments regarding DAT, where he said how "little yellow people" had to copy music because they couldn't create it themselves. I was part of convincing the California State Legislature not to cave to industry pressure and put copy code chips in all digital recording devices. I fought against the CBS copycode notch protocol. It's all a matter of public record, published in black and white for those who take the time to do actual research. Like the reference from well over a year ago blowing the whistle on this whole internet flap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 ...And I didn't realize that working with smaller labels was an act of holiness. If that's your interpretation, that's in your mind, not my statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 And to be fair to your current view, 20 years as a dedicated mechanic in the belly of the machine ain't chicken feed. You can't just step out of your skin and call shenanigans. That 20 years was from 1968 to 1989. Okay, 21 years. So it's not like I just "stepped out of my skin" yesterday...do the math, that was almost two decades ago. Although I did master a record that got put out on EMI in 1999. So sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jotown Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Quote: " "Traditional radio pays nothing in performance royalties, though SoundExchange is pressing to change that. Satellite radio pays 6 or 7 percent of revenue. And then there are webcasters, which pay per song, per listener." This is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to begin. Since when has traditional broadcast radio not had to pay performance royalties? I haven't worked in radio in 20 years but I always knew that trad radio had to pay a mechanical performance royalty. Has this changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I believe they do not pay per-listener royalties, unlike the internet situation. But I'm just quoting what the article said. I welcome more authoritative viewpoints on how the royalty stream from radio is disseminated. I know I got a lot of royalties back when Forward Motion was being played on the WAVE in LA in 1989-1990, but that was based on the number of times it was played, not the number of people listening. For all I know, only two people heard my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Read what I said. I didn't say I never fed the machine. I said I don't feed it any more. But... I worked against the RIAA position on DAT in the 80s... It's true... I remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I believe they do not pay per-listener royalties, unlike the internet situation. But I'm just quoting what the article said. I welcome more authoritative viewpoints on how the royalty stream from radio is disseminated. I know I got a lot of royalties back when Forward Motion was being played on the WAVE in LA in 1989-1990, but that was based on the number of times it was played, not the number of people listening. For all I know, only two people heard my music My understanding is that Performace Rights societies do base royalties on the amount of plays; at least projections of the total plays based on data from monitoring surveys and station play logs. As a publisher or writer, the more plays you get, the larger the slice of the pie you get in terms of percentage of the licensing fees (paid for by the radio stations, among others) that are collected, less the PRS's operating expenses. As far as what stations pay to the PRS's in terms of licensing fees, isn't it based off of the transmitter size, population of the coverage area, and their rankings (projected number of listeners as a percentage of the population) in the Arbitron ratings? If you're running a popular station in a major market, you're paying more in licensing, but you're also able to charge a lot more for your ads. http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/C1171/pdf535472_1/ http://www.bmi.com/career/entry/C1519 I do agree that regardless of origin (terrestrial radio, sat radio or Internet radio, etc.), the playing field and fees should be equal across the board, and that we, as musicians, should encourage diversity in methods of access to our music. Of course, with computer technology, it's much easier to get exact numbers in terms of plays with internet radio, whereas that would be next to impossible with terrestrial radio - but the basic principle - and fees - should be equitable... but that wouldn't be in Clear Channel's interest, would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 It's true... I remember that. Somewhere around here I still have a letter (remember letters? ) Craig sent me in response to a letter I sent to him regarding an article he had written about the subject in Electronic Musician magazine. IOW, yeah, I remember that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted August 17, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 Read what I said. I read. You've reaped benefits from both positions but accept responsibility for neither. No worries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I loved pandora until they were not able to transmit out of the US. So I stopped listening. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I read. You've reaped benefits from both positions but accept responsibility for neither. No worries... That sounds like it might mean something, but for the life of me I can't figure out exactly what it is. It would be helpful if you were as specific in your statements as I've been in my responses. What exactly is it you want me to accept responsibility for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted August 18, 2008 Members Share Posted August 18, 2008 You've reaped benefits from both positions but accept responsibility for neither. You can see Craig's life through the lens of a pinhole at best, and yet you act as if you think you're some sort of omniscient god. You're in no position to make assessments, let alone judgments. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.