Volunteers Needed for Composer Unionizing Effort

[Anderton]

Interesting:

 

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001fTAmhMmZbVLtyCbVTlZNXl2aHiMJhA-YgQJ_SF7YbW1bPFBDplRWseFTfgPDSNStIKwicpLtbgtB5SAR9N6ktaR4dcUlDjv1RBq3XMOLpTc%3D

 

Opinions?

[Gus Lozada]

Uh... if it was an international effort, I'd gladly help.

[WRGKMC]

The film industry is loaded with unions. I'll stick to being independant.

[Geoff Grace]

 

The film industry is loaded with unions.

 

 

All the more reason that composers could use one as well.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[bp]

Why not have a broader union? All this seems likely to do is pit established composers against up and comers who are looking to break into a new field.

[Beck]

 

Opinions?

 

 

Seems like a bad idea.

[Ani]

Craig,

 

Being in management, while working for an organization with multiple unions as strong as any auto industry union, I'm not in favor of what unions have degraded to in today's society.

 

At one time, unions were designed to protect against unsafe work practices, unfair wages, slave labor and what have you. So many unions have become greedy to the point where they inhibit fluency in work force and protect the indolent. It's sad whenever the unions get to where they have more control over the way a company operates than the controllers of the organization.

 

In an America where jobs have been outsourced across the globe to beat the unions; I don't think that forming a new union would be in the best of interest for composers and lyricists. Especially not since the Internet offers a wide open ticket to anyone wanting to exploit their talents to the world. Unions put stipulations on members, and sometimes even restrict them from maximizing their income. Just take a look at what happened to the Air Traffic Controllers back in the 80's.

 

At one time I was very "PRO" union, but not anymore. Not with the way I've seen them operate in my organization for the last 25 years. I was down on the unions before I ever stepped back over onto the management side. It is "because" of some of the stronger unions that slave labor has been creeping back into existence. It's extremely hard to "fire" employees in some organizations, and whenever you get those that are basically worthless that seem to be invincible; other more diligent workers end up picking up the slack to meet goals. It's a very sad system indeed, and I never thought I'd ever say it, but some government organizations could operate more efficiently if they were to cut about 2/3's of the fat off; or at least 1/2.

[Jotown]

Everything is light and shadow. Just because unions have a shadow side doesn't mean that they can't also be a positive thing. Most of the protections that workers take for granted are only in existence because of unions.

 

There are always extremes on either side, but the truth is usually in the middle. I think unions are going to be more important than ever in the coming years. Corporate interests have been tearing down the unions since the days of Reagan.

 

One must always be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[spokenward]

and that's all you bastards are getting until you recognize this collective bargaining agreement...

 

but srsly -

 

this is a little backgrounder on the proposition:

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4165

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4220

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4159

 

From the last there is this thought-provoking tidbit:

 

The constant undercutting and lowballing of composer fees has eroded these to zero on some jobs, further reducing the value and respect of our art, our copyrights, and our industry. As an example, here

[bp]

My grandfather was #2 at IBEW for a long while and took pride in it's reputation of being a "non strike union". He told be they could still barter to get their points across but never wanted to put the trigger of a strike because so many others would lose work. I wish he didn't fall to Alzheimer's when he did. I could have learned a great deal from him. The papers he left indicated someone who was very forward thinking. He was designing batteries for cars in the early 50s and some other things.

 

Sorry for the diversion, but a union done well can encourage the younger folks to learn their craft and build the infrastructure to have a longevity that seems to be lacking in current unionizing efforts.

[Geoff Grace]

 

Music Composer, No Pay, IMDB credit only

 

I've spent a lot of time looking for work during recent months, and I've seen this much more often than I can say. The most commonly advertised composer rate I've encountered is "no/low/deferred pay."

 

 

a union done well can encourage the younger folks to learn their craft and build the infrastructure to have a longevity that seems to be lacking in current unionizing efforts.

 

If those who are organizing were open to suggestion, what advice would you give them?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

Oh, and thank you, spokenward, for illustrating the point I was trying to make in my first post -- there's money in the budget for people who have unions.

 

 

this is a little backgrounder on the proposition: http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4165 http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4220 http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=4159   From the last there is this thought-provoking tidbit: The constant undercutting and lowballing of composer fees has eroded these to zero on some jobs, further reducing the value and respect of our art, our copyrights, and our industry. As an example, here

[amplayer]

 

I've spent a lot of time looking for work during recent months, and I've seen this much more often than I can say. The most commonly advertised composer rate I've encountered is "no/low/deferred pay."

 

 

The thing I don't get is how a producer would figure they can get somebody with your level of experience and expertise for free or cheap. I guess what it means is that the quality of the music isn't very important for their project.

 

It's even worse. I've actually seen many student and indy film producers having composers compete to get work that offers no pay!

[ermghoti II]

 

4) Music Composer, No Pay, IMDB credit only

 

 

Good. Form a union, and the short films will all be scored with public domain stock audio. Nobody will get a cent extra, and there will be exponentially reduced opportunities for unknowns to build a portfolio. I know that's dangerously close to the "dude, think of the publicity!" argument, but realistically, an indie/hobbyist filmaker is not going to cut his budget to add original music. He's more likely to sequence it himself, in a pinch.

[Jotown]

 

I've spent a lot of time looking for work during recent months, and I've seen this much more often than I can say. The most commonly advertised composer rate I've encountered is "no/low/deferred pay."

And that is the new standard; even though there are deals made by the performing rights organizations and the studios that make compensation mandatory.

 

People will take as much from you as they can get away with. In the new era of "music is free" people on all levels have devalued music and people who create it. That is why a union would be a good thing.

[TimOBrien]

Having worked in a newly unionized company where guys came in sporting $2000 suits with bulges under their arms, I'll say.... no thanks.

[Jotown]

Having worked in a newly unionized company where guys came in sporting $2000 suits with bulges under their arms, I'll say.... no thanks.

That is a generalization Tim. Yes there are Union fatcats, yes there are things about the unions that are excessive and need to change. But that fact remains that a 5 day work week, 40 hour work week, paid vacations, health coverage etc... would not exist if not for the power of collective bargaining. Things aren't always black and white and either or; they are frequently complex and multilayered.

[bp]

 

If those who are organizing were open to suggestion, what advice would you give them? Best, Geoff

 

 

Make it easy to join, have good group health benefits available (for cost), have a "no strike" mentality, get some heavyweight lawyers who are willing to work "cheap" to start, and make the union available to general songwriters as well. A focus on digital distribution rights / tracking has to be there from the start. "Work for Hire" jobs should be reverted to better terms for the composer if agreed fees aren't paid on time. Having access to ready made contracts for members could help in establishing the consistency for "union terms".

 

Strength in numbers can work but I don't see membership getting large if dues are too high to start.

[Jotown]

Make it easy to join, have good group health benefits available (for cost), have a "no strike" mentality, get some heavyweight lawyers who are willing to work "cheap" to start, and make the union available to general songwriters as well. A focus on digital distribution rights / tracking has to be there from the start. "Work for Hire" jobs should be reverted to better terms for the composer if agreed fees aren't paid on time. Having access to ready made contracts for members could help in establishing the consistency for "union terms". Strength in numbers can work but I don't see membership getting large if dues are too high to start.

+1

[Richard King]

get some heavyweight lawyers who are willing to work "cheap" to start,

Wouldn't that be against the philosophy being expressed here?

[Philter]

I'm glad my wife is in the NEA, the best terrorist organization in the USA.

 

I have a creeping fear that a composer's union is an exercise in multiplying by zeroes.

[doug osborne]

Composers/lyricists are pretty much the last craft to be non-union in the film industry. It makes sense that, apocryphal stories and second-hand knowledge aside, they would want to have some way to speak as a group to their employers. Without anti-union prejudice (admittedly much of it deserved) muddying the water, producers would probably be able to deliver a better product at a lower price if they could know in advance what to expect instead of lowballing a service with artistic value, sometimes value intrinsic to the ultimate product.

 

Instead, hysteria ensues and the word union conjures up hate.

 

Music has already been outsourced overseas and to secondary markets, but that has probably reached a dead end. There is only so low a bidder can go when bidding for talent. Talent tends to congregate where their product is needed, and that makes an industry.

 

Film music is always the last thing to be made, with the lowest line item in the budged, and the shortest time budget. Yet, it is expected to sound like something between the John Williams temp track and Richard Strauss back from the dead, done feaverishly in the dead of night by desperate starving artists.

 

Rise up!

 

Teamsters???

[Jotown]

Composers/lyricists are pretty much the last craft to be non-union in the film industry. It makes sense that, apocryphal stories and second-hand knowledge aside, they would want to have some way to speak as a group to their employers. Without anti-union prejudice (admittedly much of it deserved) muddying the water, producers would probably be able to deliver a better product at a lower price if they could know in advance what to expect instead of lowballing a service with artistic value, sometimes value intrinsic to the ultimate product. Instead, hysteria ensues and the word union conjures up hate. Music has already been outsourced overseas and to secondary markets, but that has probably reached a dead end. There is only so low a bidder can go when bidding for talent. Talent tends to congregate where their product is needed, and that makes an industry. Film music is always the last thing to be made, with the lowest line item in the budged, and the shortest time budget. Yet, it is expected to sound like something between the John Williams temp track and Richard Strauss back from the dead, done feaverishly in the dead of night by desperate starving artists. Rise up! Teamsters???

Amen

[spokenward]

 

Teamsters???

 

 

* * * clears throat * * *

[UstadKhanAli]

Cool post, Doug.